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Dear typrsn,
Can symbolism baptize us into Christ? This is the baptism that is symbolic of what happens to a man when he is baptized into Christ?
Is the water really the grave or is this symbolic of the grave. When the man comes up out of the water, is it at that moment he is a new creature in Christ or is this symbolic of when he became a new creature in Christ?
To say that symbolism is the baptism that saves us, to say that water is what destroyed the body of sin, is not true. For it was the blood of Christ that destroyed the body of sin. It is the blood of Christ that cleansed us of our sin. It is our faith in Jesus, and his cleansing blood that destroyed ours sins. It is through his blood that we are baptized into his death, baptized into Christ.
Water baptism is symbolism of the outward demonstation of the inward event that baptized us into Christ. We are baptized into Christ through his blood and baptized symbolically in water in the name of Jesus. If the first baptism did not happen, the second or water baptism would be meaningless. But to those who have been born again, they are revealing to the world that they have been saved and are new creatures in Christ. They are giving God the glory. And the water baptism gives the man a good concience towards God. It is an act of obedience.
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 09 2006,19:17) Dear typrsn, Can symbolism baptize us into Christ? This is the baptism that is symbolic of what happens to a man when he is baptized into Christ?
Is the water really the grave or is this symbolic of the grave. When the man comes up out of the water, is it at that moment he is a new creature in Christ or is this symbolic of when he became a new creature in Christ?
To say that symbolism is the baptism that saves us, to say that water is what destroyed the body of sin, is not true. For it was the blood of Christ that destroyed the body of sin. It is the blood of Christ that cleansed us of our sin. It is our faith in Jesus, and his cleansing blood that destroyed ours sins. It is through his blood that we are baptized into his death, baptized into Christ.
Water baptism is symbolism of the outward demonstation of the inward event that baptized us into Christ. We are baptized into Christ through his blood and baptized symbolically in water in the name of Jesus. If the first baptism did not happen, the second or water baptism would be meaningless. But to those who have been born again, they are revealing to the world that they have been saved and are new creatures in Christ. They are giving God the glory. And the water baptism gives the man a good concience towards God. It is an act of obedience.
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
H,Again, the baptism unto death that Paul is referring to in Rom. 6:3 is water baptism as Nick has already stated.
Paul deals with the same thing in Col. 2:11-13. Baptism has no meaning until the blood of Jesus is applied by faith. Just because there was faith prior to the water baptism doesn't mean that faith was a baptism. Jesus said he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned (Rom. 16:16). Are you saying that the application of the blood of Yahweh's passover lamb in Ex. 12 was typical of a baptism? In 1 Cor. 10:1,2 referring to Ex. 14, Paul references how the Israelites were baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea. Moses here, is a type of Christ, the Captain of our salvation (Heb. 2:10; Josh. 5:13-15; ). Of course, if it were not for the application of the blood of the passover lamb they would not have lived to go through the water.
heiscomingintheclouds: I hear what you are saying, but can I encourage you to read my page http://www.all4god.net/beyond_pentecost.htm to see in particular about the 3rd baptism, and if you take 10 minutes to look at the PowerPoint presentation you will also see my testimony about the 3rd baptism and an amazing revelation into the 23rd Psalm.
Dear Oxy,
When a man is born again, is that the moment he is baptized in the Holy Spirit? No. For that would make the Word of God become contrary and conflicting.
When a man is saved, does the Holy Spirit of God lead the man to salvation? Yes, he does. Does the Holy Spirit enter into that man, yes he does. For when a man is saved, does not the Son enter into the heart of the believer? If Christ is in the heart of the believer, who can deny that the Holy Spirit is not there also.
This is not the same thing as the baptism of the Holy Spirit as those recieved on the day of Pentecost. The baptism on the day of Pentecost filled the believers with the Holy Spirit. To say any different would be saying it is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that saves a man. It is not the this baptism that saves the man, but it is the baptism into Christ. Those on the day of Pentecost were already saved, born again. For if they were not made clean first, the Holy Spirit of God would not have entered into them. They had to be made Holy before that which is Holy could enter them.
Do you not remember the parable of the old and new wine? What happens if you put new wine in old wines sacks? The sacks will burst open. It is for this reason new wine must be put into new wine sacks.
Mark 2:21 No man also seweth a piece of new cloth on an old garment: else the new piece that filled it up taketh away from the old, and the rent is made worse.
22 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.
As for your page, I went to it and it is just that, your page. I myself will refer you to my page, it is in the Authorized King James bible.
Dear typrsn,
Jesus said he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned (Rom. 16:16).
So if one does not believe, they cannot be saved, they will not be saved. They will be damned. If a man believes in Jesus with all of his heart and asks for forgiveness of sins, he will be saved.
The baptism of water will not save him nor will the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The man must be saved by believing unto repentance and forgiveness. If he does not have this, neither of the other baptisms will have any meaning or any benefit.
Eph. 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
So many are ignorant to the Word of God. They read with their eyes and do not see. They see and do not believe.
Just as it says there is more then one baptism, yet, it says in Eph. there is only one baptism. And it is of truth, for it is referring to the baptism of salvation. The baptism that baptizes all into Christ who are saved. It is this baptism that binds us together in Christ. It is this baptism that makes us different from the world. For we are made new creatures in Christ.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 09 2006,21:32) Dear typrsn, Jesus said he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned (Rom. 16:16).
So if one does not believe, they cannot be saved, they will not be saved. They will be damned. If a man believes in Jesus with all of his heart and asks for forgiveness of sins, he will be saved.
The baptism of water will not save him nor will the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The man must be saved by believing unto repentance and forgiveness. If he does not have this, neither of the other baptisms will have any meaning or any benefit.
Eph. 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
So many are ignorant to the Word of God. They read with their eyes and do not see. They see and do not believe.
Just as it says there is more then one baptism, yet, it says in Eph. there is only one baptism. And it is of truth, for it is referring to the baptism of salvation. The baptism that baptizes all into Christ who are saved. It is this baptism that binds us together in Christ. It is this baptism that makes us different from the world. For we are made new creatures in Christ.
Hi H,
Do you not yet see that the baptism spoken of in Eph 4.4 is not elaborated on so returns to the TYPE of water baptism?What you now say is the ONLY form of baptism is not even scripturally called baptism so you stand on your own aegis once again.
“Eph. 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
Hi,
If you read 1 Cor 10.1-4 you will see again
baptism in water
and
baptism in the Spirit
following repentant faith as the entry into the kingdom of God.Then we feed on the Word of God, from the Spirit of Christ to be alive abiding in that Word.
1Cor 10 1f
“..as the 1For (A)I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all (B)under the cloud and all ©passed through the sea;
2and all were (D)baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;3and all (E)ate the same spiritual food;
4and all (F)drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.”
You are making an assumption. Do you not see that? One baptism. Does it not also say it is baptism that saves us?
It is not water baptism that saves us, it is not the baptism of the Holy Spirit that saves us.
It is the baptism into Christ through his blood. This is the baptism that matters the most. It is this baptism that saves the souls of men from death. If a man is not born again, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.
Hi H,
The verse is about unity in the body of Christ.
We all have to pass through the gate of Christ.
We enter into his death through being baptised into him through water
and he enters into us by the Spirit of Christ being planted as seed in us.Nick, we all have to pass through the blood of Christ to be saved. Don't you see? It is what brings us altogether. It is what makes us blood relatives.
Hi H,
Fine words again.
But they are not the words of the Master but your own.
They are the words of a stranger.Whom should we follow?
Nick, if you don't understand that it is our faith in Christ and his blood that cleanses us of our sins, how is it you can make any claim of salvation.
You speak of the master, yet, your master must not be the same as mine. My master saved me from death by cleansing me from my sins, and his name is Jesus Christ.
Hi H,
The sooner you start to base your beliefs on the bible
and are able to show every fact you declare from your own spirit
to be bible based and provable from the bible
the sooner we can start to get our teeth into some meat.How can a man be born again and not know the savior? We are all, who accept Christ as our Savior born into Christ through his blood.
I have asked all to do the study at the beginning of this post, but none have done so. You would rather argue your vain points instead of believing the Word of God. If you only know in part you will only understand in part. If you do not have all the pieces of a puzzle, how can you ever have hope of seeing the entire picture as a whole? You will only see in part and only know it part.
All I can say is that is saddens me. And I will pray the Lord speak to your hearts as always. I will fast also as I have done before for those here. I will continue to fight the good fight.
The only redeeming point to this forum is that many here have seen the corruption of the faith that we know as religions today. It is what has brought many here. Praise the Lord for leading them here. If there are far much worse places they could be. I thank God for this forum, for if anything, there is no censorship. This alone is wonderful.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
How are you to be led by the Spirit if you haven't been “baptized” and received the Holy Spirit. Again if one confess with his mouth and believes in his heart he shall be saved. If he would die Yes he is saved because he could not be baptized. But if he had opportunity and was not baptized then he is rejecting Christ.
Water baptism is a commandment!
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid the water, that these should not be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as well as we?
Act 10:48 And “he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.” Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.*If you receive the Holy Spirit before being baptized then we are “still commanded” to be baptized.
Dear kenrch,
What happens when a man is saved? Does not Christ come to live in that man? If Christ is in the man, is not the Holy Spirit there also. Yet, this is not the same as the baptism of the Holy Spirit brother. When you are saved, you have a part of the HS, but you receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit, you are filled, over filled with the Spirit of God. This is where I think many have the misconceptiion.
When a man is born again, the spirit in him that was once dead to God is reborn by the quickening spiriit, Christ. Can one seperate Christ from the Holy Spirit. If a man has Christ in him, does he not also have the Holy Spirit in him?
The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. It fills the man with the Holy Spirit. It is just not the baptism that saved the man.
Hi H….in the clouds,
When we are saved the seed of the Spirit of Christ is planted in us as in Jn 20.22.But as Paul showed in Gal 4.19 that is usually a slow process and fraught with difficulty as the land is occupied territory and must be fought for as Joshua did.
Thst seed must be nourished and watered by the living Word of scripture to grow up till we can with Paul say
“it is no longer I that liveth but Christ that liveth in me”Good points Nick.
Gal. 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
If you read the entire chapter, you can see that these were babes in Christ. That is why Paul said I travail in birth again. He was writting them because they were having trouble understanding the things of Christ. That is why he said until Christ be formed in you. These young believers were being caught up in the physical law. They had not grown enough in Christ to understand the spiritual law.
They were on the milk of the word. They were babes in Christ.
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