3 BAPTISMS

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  • #22668

    There is God's way and there is man's way. I will side with God. There is no inbetween. There is no compromise. I will not yield to the whims of men and abandon the word of God. Nor will he forsake me, for it says plainly so in his word. He is my confort, my shield, my salvation.

    As for walking with you and yours Nick, that will happen only if you walk in the ways of the Lord.

    #22679
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi H,
    If you are with God why do you reject some of His demands? Why do you not abide in the Word?

    #22681

    Can you name one that I am in fault of Nick? I can name plenty, and I pray for a fresh covering of my precious saviours blood that I might be forgiven. As to what you are talking about, I am all ears and if it has merit, I will repent.

    #22684
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi H,
    Just ABIDE in the Word and not follow foolish men into teaching the popular excursions outside of faith and you will prove yourself an obedient servant of the Master.

    #22686

    I could not have said it better myself.

    #22689

    It is for this reason I make my stand on the Word of God and not the words of foolish men into teaching that are popular excursions outside of faith. And the most important part of the faith is all things can be proven by using his Word. God's Word is a double edged Sword that shreds all false doctrines to pieces. For the Word of God is eternal.

    #23178

    In the early church, in the days of the apostles, all things were done the same in all the churches. Even though the churches were located in different cities, they were in one accord. The apostles went from church to church keeping the doctrines in accordance with on another.

    As time pasted, and the apostles went to be with the Lord, man began to corrupt the church by adding rituals and changing the way certain things were done such as baptism.

    As one can plainly see, when one was baptized by water, they were baptized in the name of Jesus. Later, this was changed by the Catholic church and the baptism of water became the baptism of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. It is for this reason I posted the 3 baptisms. To set the record straight. For it is man who corrupts the things of the Lord. It is man who rejects the truth for the lie. It has been this way since the garden of Eden and is so today.

    #23180
    kenrch
    Participant

    Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 01 2006,00:36)
    In the early church, in the days of the apostles, all things were done the same in all the churches. Even though the churches were located in different cities, they were in one accord. The apostles went from church to church keeping the doctrines in accordance with on another.

    As time pasted, and the apostles went to be with the Lord, man began to corrupt the church by adding rituals and changing the way certain things were done such as baptism.

    As one can plainly see, when one was baptized by water, they were baptized in the name of Jesus. Later, this was changed by the Catholic church and the baptism of water became the baptism of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. It is for this reason I posted the 3 baptisms. To set the record straight. For it is man who corrupts the things of the Lord. It is man who rejects the truth for the lie. It has been this way since the garden of Eden and is so today.


    Excellent! Amen!

    #23201
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Good points Heiscomingintheclouds

    #23240

    Thank you Nick Hassan. I thought if anyone could see the truth in this, it would be you.

    Kenrch, as always, the Holy Spirit reveals the truth to you. Continue to fight the good fight in the faith, for the coming of our Lord is so near. The middle east is evident of that. It won't be long once the Dome of the Rock is destroyed.

    #23774

    Baptism
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    This article is about the act of baptizing. For the Baptist movement, see Baptist.

    Baptism in early Christian art..

    Baptism is generally a water purification ritual practiced in many of various religions including Christianity, Mandaeanism, and Sikhism. Christian baptism has its origins with the Jewish ritual of mikvah. The word baptize derives from the Greek word βάπτειν (the infinitive; also listed as the 1st person singular present active indicative βαπτίζω), which loosely means “to dip, bathe, or wash”. To some groups it is a matter of religious conviction to assert that baptism is literally equivalent to, to plunge something entirely into the water, so that the water closes over it. To other groups, baptism is a symbolic term meaning “identification with” (e.g. Jesus) having no connection with earthly ritual.

    Today, water baptism is most readily identified with Christianity, where it symbolizes the cleansing (remission) of sins, and the union of the believer with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection so that he becomes one of Christ's Faithful. Most Christian groups practice some form of literal water-based baptism and agree that it is important, yet strongly disagree with other groups regarding any or all of several aspects of baptism, such as:

    form of the baptism
    recipients of baptism
    meaning/effects of the act of baptism
    However, a few Christian groups assert that water-based baptism has been supplanted by the promised baptism of the Holy Spirit, and water baptism was unnecessarily carried over from the early Jewish Christian practice.

    Form of Baptism: Among those Christians espousing the practice of baptism, the ritual is performed as:

    Aspersion – sprinkling water over the head,
    Affusion – pouring water over the head, or
    Immersion – lowering the entire body into a pool of water.
    For Christians who baptize by pouring or sprinkling, the washing with water from above pictures the cleansing of one's sins by the blood of Christ, by the Holy Spirit, who unites the baptized person to Christ in his death, and in His resurrection from the dead. It is administered from above to point to that gift of the life-giving Spirit, and to portray baptism as an act not of man, but of God. In contrast, a person baptized by immersion is enclosed under the water and brought out, to signify cleansing through death and burial with Christ, and consequent raising again in newness of life by the Holy Spirit. Regardless of the form, baptism is a public rite, in testimony to others of the grace of God bestowed upon the person, and as a seal of God's promises in Christ to those who believe.

    Recipient of Baptism: The choice to be baptized is made by a 'confessing believer' (believer baptism, or credobaptism), regardless of age, as a 'confession' or public profession of his or her faith in Christ; or on behalf of the child by his or her parents (infant baptism or paedobaptism) if the parents had themselves been baptized, and professed faith. Infant baptism was delineated as necessary by Augustine of Hippo in the fourth century. Augustine argues that baptism washes away sin and so must be administered to the newborn, as they are in fact stained with Original Sin and thus damned should they suddenly die prior to baptism. However, at least a century earlier Tertullian argued for credobaptism: “according to the circumstances and disposition, and even age, of each individual, the delay of baptism is preferable; principally, however, in the case of little children … let them become Christians when they have become able to know Christ.” [1]. Many evangelical Christians hold that baptism is something of an “outward expression of an inward change”. Baptism is done in obedience to Christ, showing others outwardly that they were changed inwardly when they committed their life to Christ and became a new creation (2. Cor. 5:17).

    Meaning/Effects of Baptism: There are grave differences in views about the effect of water baptism for a Christian. Most Christian groups assert baptism is a requirement for salvation and sacrament for Christians, calling this “baptismal regeneration”. This is the general view shared by the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox traditions, by churches formed early during the Protestant Reformation such as Lutheran, Anglican and Methodist, and Restorationist churches such as the Church of Christ. For example, Martin Luther stated in The Large Catechism of 1529,

    “To put it most simply, the power, effect, benefit, fruit, and purpose of Baptism is to save. No one is baptized in order to become a prince, but as the words say, to 'be saved.' To be saved, we know, is nothing else than to be delivered from sin, death, and the devil and to enter into the kingdom of Christ and live with him forever.”
    By contrast, Baptist groups espouse baptism as a worthy practice, but deny that baptism has any sacramental power, but rather only testifies outwardly to the operation of God's power, which is invisible, internal, and completely 'separate' from the rite itself. Other Baptist groups teach and preach that the baptism 'ceremony' is 'meaningful and necessary'.

    Contents [hide]
    1 Background in Jewish ritual
    2 Explanation
    3 Ecumenical statement
    4 Baptism in most Christian traditions
    4.1 Catholic baptism and salvation
    4.2 Conditions of the validity of a baptism
    4.3 Baptism by other denominations
    4.4 Who may administer a baptism
    5 Anabaptist and Baptist baptism
    6 Reformed and Covenant Theology view
    7 Baptism in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
    8 Jehovah's Witnesses
    9 Baptism in Churches of Christ
    10 Baptism in Hyperdispensationalism
    11 Other baptisms
    11.1 Non-Christian religions
    11.2 Mandaean baptism
    11.2.1 Sikh baptism ceremony
    11.3 Metaphorical baptisms
    11.3.1 Baptism of objects
    11.3.2 Non-religious baptism
    12 See also
    12.1 Related articles and subjects
    12.2 People and ritual objects
    13 Resources
    14 External links
    14.1 Jewish
    14.2 Orthodox
    14.3 Catholic
    14.4 Lutheran
    14.5 Calvinist
    14.6 Anglican
    14.7 Methodist
    14.8 Mennonite
    14.9 Other groups

    [edit]
    Background in Jewish ritual
    Main article: Mikvah
    Although the term baptism is not used to describe the Jewish rituals, the purification rites (or Mikvah – ritual bath) in Jewish laws and tradition are where the ritual of baptism can find its origins. In the Tanakh, and other Jewish texts, bathing for ritual purification was established for specified circumstances – in order to be restored to a condition of 'ritual purity'. For example, Jews who become ritually 'defiled' by contact with a corpse (according to the Law of Moses), had to use the mikvah before being allowed to participate in the Holy Temple. Immersion is required for converts to Judaism as part of their conversion. Through practices such as these, immersion in the mikvah represents purification and restoration, and qualification for full religious participation in the life of the community. (See Numbers Chapter 19)

    In modern times, the adherence and observance of the laws, rituals, and customs regarding the mikvah differ greatly among the Jewish denominations. Due to the destruction of the Holy Temple, these days, immersion in a Mikvah has no practical purpose; but many Orthodox and Haredi Jews do so anyway, in order to 'increase purity'. The only modern exception is that after menses, women need to immerse in a mikvah in order to be permitted to her husband. For more details see niddah.

    [edit]
    Explanation

    A Catholic baptismThe Christian explanation of baptism as the definitive rite, by which the baptized person is indicated to be fully-qualified for participation
    in the life of the Church, begins with the career of John the Baptist, who was the cousin of Jesus. Those who believe that John was a prophet identify baptism with his message concerning repentance in preparation for the coming of the Messiah.

    “He [John] went into all the country around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. As is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet: “A voice of one calling in the desert, 'Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him. Every valley shall be filled in, every mountain and hill made low. The crooked roads shall become straight, the rough ways smooth. And all mankind will see God's salvation.'” Luke 3:3-6
    “Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.” Luke 3:8
    John declared that repentance was necessary, prior to forgiveness. There must be a return to God. This implies that the stain of sin is not ineradicable, but can be removed by putting off polluting acts and returning to “the way of the Lord”, all of which was symbolized in his baptism.

    Christians believe that John also taught that his baptism was not finally sufficient, and that repentance would not attain to its goal of separation from sin, apart from a greater baptism which it was not in his power to give. According to the Gospel of Luke, John taught, “I baptize you with water; but one comes who is stronger than I, of whom I am not worthy to untie the strap of his sandals; he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire; his winnowing fork is in his hand to clean out his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his storehouse, but the chaff he will burn with inextinguishable fire.” (Luke 3,16-17) Christians believe that John's baptism shows that the effort to make oneself acceptable to God by repentance would be superseded, made complete by the coming of the Lamb of God that 'takes away' (not 'covers over') sins.

    According to the Gospel of John, after John baptized Jesus, he testified concerning him,

    “I have seen the Spirit coming down as a dove from heaven, and it remained upon him. And I had not known him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water, that one said to me, On whomever you see the Spirit coming down and remaining upon him, this is the one baptizing with the Holy Spirit. And I have seen, and I have testified that this is the son of God.” (John 1,32-34)
    “Behold the Lamb of God, that takes away the sins of the world.”
    From this point on, water baptism became identified with the followers of Jesus, who preached “Repent, for the kingdom of God is near,” and explicitly identified the coming of the kingdom with his own appearing.

    At the end of his recorded ministry, Jesus charged the Apostles to baptize “in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit” in the Great Commission (Matthew 28:19), which has become the common formula for baptizing. The Apostles are recorded baptizing only in the name of Jesus in the Book of Acts (Acts 2:38 8:16 10:48 19:5) – a fact which figures prominently among groups who reject the trinitarian formula.

    [edit]
    Ecumenical statement
    The ecumenical paper Baptism, Eucharist and Ministry, prepared by representatives across a spectrum of Christians, Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and Protestants traditions of Christianity attempts to express a common understanding of baptism, as it is derived from the New Testament.

    ” … according to Acts 2:38, baptisms follow from Peter's preaching baptism in the name of Jesus and lead those baptized to the receiving of Christ's Spirit, the Holy Ghost, and life in the community: “They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers” (2:42) as well as to the distribution of goods to those in need (2:45). Those who heard, who were baptized and entered the community's life, were already made witnesses of and partakers in the promises of God for the last days: the forgiveness of sins through baptism in the name of Jesus and the outpouring of the Holy Ghost on all flesh (2:38). Similarly, in what may well be a baptismal pattern, 1 Peter testifies that proclamation of the resurrection of Jesus Christ and teaching about new life (1:3-21) lead to purification and new birth (1:22-23). This, in turn, is followed by eating and drinking God's food (2:2-3), by participation in the life of the community — the royal priesthood, the new temple, the people of God (2:4-10) — and by further moral formation (2:11 ff.). At the beginning of 1 Peter the writer sets this baptism in the context of obedience to Christ and sanctification by the Spirit (1:2). So baptism into Christ is seen as baptism into the Spirit (cf. 1 Cor. 12:13). In the fourth gospel Jesus' discourse with Nicodemus indicates that birth by water and Spirit becomes the gracious means of entry into the place where God rules (John 3:5).” [2]
    The most commonly cited reference for the command justifying the continuing practice of baptism by Christians, is the “Great Commission,” found in the book of St. Matthew chapter 28, verses 18-20. It is typically viewed as the rite by which a person is joined to Jesus and his body, the Church, in connection with which the baptized person who has received the Holy Spirit is considered to be a Christian.

    [edit]
    Baptism in most Christian traditions

    The baptistry at St. Raphael's Cathedral, Dubuque, Iowa. This particular font was expanded in 2005 to include a small pool to provide for immersion baptism of adults.The liturgy of baptism in the Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Lutheran, Anglican, and Methodist traditions makes clear reference to baptism as not only a symbolic burial and resurrection, but an actual supernatural transformation, one that draws parallels to the experience of Noah and the passage of the Israelites through the Red Sea divided by Moses. Thus baptism is literally and symbolically not only cleansing, but also dying and rising again with Christ. Catholics believe that baptism is necessary for the cleansing of the taint of original sin, and for that reason infant baptism is a common practice. The Orthodox also practice infant baptism on the basis of various texts such as Matthew 19:14 which are interpreted to condone full Church membership for children, and so baptism is immediately followed by Chrismation and Communion at the next Divine Liturgy regardless of age. Anglicans believe that Baptism is also the entry into the Church and therefore allows them access to all rights and responsibilities as full members, including the privilege to receive Holy Communion. Most Anglicans agree that it also cleanses the taint of original sin, though those Anglicans who agree with a more Eastern understanding of original sin think it exactly the same was as the Eastern Orthodox.

    Latin Rite Catholics generally baptize by affusion (pouring); Orthodox and Eastern Catholics usually by immersion. However immersion is gaining in popularity within the Catholic Church. In newer churches, the baptismal font may be designed to expressly allow for baptism by immersion. Older church building may feature this as well by either building a new baptismal font or expanding an existing one. Anglicans practice myriad ways to be baptized, from immersion to sprinkling. Originally, baptism meant immersion: in the Jewish Mikvah, John's Baptism, and in the baptism of first century Christians.

    Non-immersion baptism came about as a result of the urgent necessity of a drought. Therefore, traditional baptism has been done according to the original ritual of immersion, though the Pope once gave a special dispensation due to extreme weather conditions that caused a severe shortage of water. The practices of pouring and sprinkling have, however, become the norm in many denominations and in the Roman Catholic tradition. According to Holy Tradition, if baptism through immersion cannot be done, it should be done through pouring (and if that is not possible, through sprinkling). However, the “cannot be done” from the previous sentence has been interpre
    ted as “cannot be done within a church building” by most “High” Churches, which almost never baptize by immersion in lakes, rivers, streams, swimming pools, fountains, or any of the many other readily available sites for immersion.

    The act of baptism has, therefore, become synonymous with infant sprinkling in the common parlance of the members of most of the churches listed in this section. Infant sprinkling was not practiced in the Bible, and though children were certainly baptized, their exact ages have not been determined. Infant baptism is generally practiced by those who believe in the doctrine of original sin; whereas denominations that do not believe that God would send an unbaptized baby to Hell tend to practice baptism based upon the confession and faith of the child of an accountable age.

    In some traditions, cold water is preferred over warm. The water must be in a state of motion (living water implies motion), so immersion in stagnant water is thought less than pouring or even sprinkling.

    The Catholic, Orthodox, and Anglican churches practice a triple baptism in the name of the Holy Trinity.

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    Catholic baptism and salvation
    In Catholic teaching, baptism plays an essential role in salvation. This teaching dates back to the teachings and practices of first century Christians, and the connection between salvation and baptism was not, on the whole, an item of major dispute until Martin Luther's teachings regarding grace. The Church teaches that “baptism is necessary for salvation” (Catechism, 1257) and entry into heaven; and therefore, a person who knowledgeably, willfully and unrepentantly rejects baptism has no hope of salvation. Three forms of baptism are acknowledged by the Church. Baptism by water refers to the traditional baptism where the individual is immersed or infused with water in the name of the Trinity.

    The Church also recognizes two other forms of baptism: “baptism of blood” and “baptism of desire.” Baptism of blood refers to unbaptized individuals who are martyred for the Faith, while baptism of desire refers to catechumens who die before they can be baptized. The Catechism of the Catholic Church describes these two forms:

    The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament. (1258)

    For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament. (1259)

    As for unbaptized infants, the Church is unsure of their fate; “the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God” (Catechism, 1261).

    [edit]
    Conditions of the validity of a baptism

    Baptism – Saint Calixte Catacomb – 3rd century.Since the Catholic, Orthodox, and Anglican Churches teach that baptism is a sacrament having actual spiritual and salvific effects, certain criteria must be complied with for it to be valid (i.e. to actually have those effects.) These criteria are actually broader than the ordinary practice. Violation of some rules regarding baptism renders the baptism illicit (in violation of the church's laws) but still valid. For example, if a Priest introduces some variation in the authorized rite for the ceremony, the baptism may still be valid (provided certain key criteria are met).

    One of the criteria for validity is that the correct form of words be used. Roman Catholics use the form “I baptize you..”; some Eastern Rite Catholic Churches and the Orthodox Churches use the form “Let this servant of Christ be baptized…” or “This person is baptized by my hands…”. However, both churches recognize the other's form as valid. The Catholic church teaches that the use of the verb “baptize” (or “baptize”) is essential.

    It is also considered essential that the Trinitarian formula is used; thus they do not accept as valid baptisms of non-Trinitarian churches such as Oneness Pentecostals. There was an ancient controversy over baptism using the formula that Oneness Pentecostals use, with some ancient authorities holding it to be valid. However, this was motivated by the apparent use of that formula at some places in scripture, not by anti-Trinitarian intentions (which would certainly be considered an invalidation of the baptism, regardless of the superficial validity of the formula). The most significant part, some theologians have argued, is not so much the Trinitarian wording, as the Trinitarian intention, and the recognition that the baptism involves all three Persons.

    Another condition is that water be used. Some Christian groups historically have rejected the use of water for baptism, for example the Albigensians. These baptisms would not be valid, nor would a baptism in which some other liquid was used. However, the Church has determined that emergency baptism performed with a liquid other than water (only where water is not available) is valid. In one such case, antifreeze from a car radiator was used under extraordinary necessity, and declared valid. [citation needed]

    Another requirement is that the celebrant intends to perform baptism. This requirement entails that the theology of baptism that the baptizer holds be sufficiently similar to that of the Catholic Church, although an exact identity is not required. However, where another denomination has a somewhat different, somewhat similar, theology of baptism, it can be difficult to be sure whether the requirement of intention is met. This is why conditional baptisms are often performed in these cases.

    Some conditions expressly do not affect validity; for example, whether immersion, infusion or aspersion is used. Some theologians have also argued that sprinkling on a part of the body other than the head in an emergency would also be valid. In many communions it does not affect validity for a single immersion to be performed rather than a triple, but in Orthodoxy this is controversial.

    According to the church, the act of baptism imparts an indelible “seal” upon the soul of the baptized. Thus, once baptized, an individual cannot be baptized again. There was an ancient practice in some areas of rebaptizing those who had returned to the church from heresy, but that practice has been rejected.

    [edit]
    Baptism by other denominations
    The Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican, Presbyterian and Methodist churches accept baptism performed by other denominations as valid, subject to certain conditions. It is only possible to be baptized once, thus people with valid baptisms from other denominations may not be baptized again upon conversion or transfer. Instead, for these individuals, either the sacrament of confirmation or a reaffirmation of faith is performed. However, in some cases it can be difficult to decide if the original baptism was in fact valid; if there is any doubt, a conditional baptism is employed, in which the officiant says something of the form of “if you are not yet baptised, I baptise you…”. The need for conditional baptisms is motivated not only by factual uncertainties regarding the original baptism, but also by the uncertainty of some of the baptismal theology regarding the precise conditions for the validity of baptism (the Church holds one cannot be certain that opinions offered by pious theologians, but on which the Church has not made an authoritative pronouncement, are in fact correct, and even authoritative pronouncements can have multiple interpretations which the Church has neither definitively endorsed or rejected).

    Practice in the Eastern Orthodox Church for converts from other communions is not uniform, but the original baptism is generally not regarded as valid even when no new baptism is performed. Situations where a new baptism is not done might arise where the form of the original baptism was acceptable, consisting of a triple immers
    ion in the name of the Holy Trinity. Instead, whatever form is used to receive the convert is taken as retroactively filling with grace an acceptable form that is held to have been graceless. If the original baptism was unacceptable in form then it is more likely, although not certain, that a new baptism will be required. Otherwise, a convert might be received by chrismation or confession. The exact procedure is dependent on local canons and is the subject of some controversy.

    [edit]
    Who may administer a baptism
    In normal circumstances, a licit baptism must be performed by a priest (for the Orthodox) or by a priest or deacon (for Roman Catholics and Anglicans) or by a duly ordained or appointed pastor or minister for Methodists and many other Protestant denominations. However, in cases of a genuine emergency, anyone may perform the baptism – if, for example, an unbaptized person, in danger of imminent death, desires baptism, but a priest is not available to perform one, and there is a real danger the person may die before a priest can baptize them. However, if serious doubt exists about the validity of the baptism performed, a conditional baptism by a priest may occur at a later time. The concern would be any deficiency in the celebration of the sacrament.

    The Catholic Church teaches that even when a baptism is illicit, it may be valid if done with water and by the proper form (Trinitarian formula), with intent to baptize, by any person, even a non-Christian. In the Orthodox Church, the baptism must be performed by another Orthodox Christian based on the understanding that a person cannot convey that which he himself does not possess, in this case membership in the Church.

    [edit]
    Anabaptist and Baptist baptism
    Baptist groups derive their name either from the restrictions that they traditionally place on the mode and subjects of the ordinance of baptism or from a shortening of the term Anabaptist which means to rebaptize. Anabaptists were labeled such because they re-baptized people who had received infant baptism, sprinkling, or baptism of any sort by another denomination. Modern Baptists do not believe baptism by immersion is the only legitimate form of baptism, they simply require that you be baptised by immersion to join the Baptist church. It does not imply any previous form of baptism, like sprinkling, is invalid. It is just a requirement of membership similar to any other organization which has an initiation ritual, only with theological meaning.

    Baptist theologians (such as John Gill) teach that baptism is only for those who can understand and profess their faith. This is called believer's baptism. Some, such as Gill, argue that the regulative principle of worship, which many paedobaptists also advocate and which states that elements of worship (including baptism) must be based on explicit commands of Scripture, is violated by infant baptism. Some would argue that according this understanding, the re-baptisms that Baptists generally perform if a person was not regenerate when baptized also violate the Regulative Principle for Worship. Furthermore, because the New Covenant is described in Jeremiah 31:31-34 as a time when all who were members of it would have the law written on their hearts and would know God, Baptist theology teaches that only those who are born again, as indicated by a profession of faith, are members of the New Covenant. They view this text as speaking of the visible church in the present age, rather than as a prophetic text of God's New Covenant in Christ administered to all saints from Genesis to the present, which will be fulfilled when Christ returns to earth. Baptism is therefore not administered to those unable to make a credible confession of saving faith in Christ prior to being baptized; but it will be administered upon making this confession, regardless of the confessor's age. Some Baptist churches take exception to this and are very hesitant to baptize young children because they want to confirm whether or not they are regenerate. A confession alone is not enough for these churches, they want to see fruit of regeneration in the life of the person to be baptized, which some argue violates the example set forth in the book of Acts, which performed immediate baptisms.

    Those who hold views influenced by the Baptists may perform the ceremony indoors in a baptismal, a swimming pool, or bathtub, or outdoors in a creek or river: as long as there is water, nothing prevents the performance of Baptism. Protestant groups influenced by these convictions usually emphasize that it memorializes the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus (Romans 6), which according to the grace of God has become the basis of repentance and new life for those who have professed belief in Him, symbolizing spiritual death with regard to sin and a new life of faith in God. They typically teach that baptism does not accomplish anything in itself, but is an outward sign or testimony, a personal act, indicating the invisible reality that the person's sins have already been washed away by the cross of Christ, and applied to their life according to their profession of faith. It is also understood to be a covenantal act, signifying entrance into the New Covenant of Christ (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:8-12, Romans 6). For Baptists, baptism is a requirement for church membership, rather than a necessary requirement for salvation.

    The above description applies not just to those denominations using Baptist in their title, but also to a wide variety of other Protestant denominations deriving from the Anabaptist tradition, including some Mennonites and Pentecostals.

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    Reformed and Covenant Theology view
    Main article: Covenant Theology#Baptism
    Paedobaptist Covenant theologians see the administration of all the biblical covenants, including the New Covenant, as including a principle of familial, corporate inclusion or “generational succession.” The biblical covenants between God and man include signs and seals that visibly represent the realities behind the covenants. These visible signs and symbols of God's covenant redemption are administered in a corporate manner (for instance, to households), not in an exclusively individualistic manner.

    Baptism is considered by the Reformed churches as the visible sign of entrance into the New Covenant and therefore may be administered individually to new believers making a public profession of faith. Paedobaptists further believe this extends corporately to the households of believers which typically would include children, or individually to children or infants of believing parents (see Infant baptism). In this view, baptism is thus seen as the functional replacement and sacramental equivalent of the Abrahamic rite of circumcision and symbolizes the internal cleansing from sin, among other things.

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    Baptism in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
    Part of a series on
    Latter Day Saint Movement

    Latter Day Saint movement
    Mormonism
    Latter Day Saints
    Latter-day Saints
    Mormonism and Christianity
    History
    The First Vision
    Church formally organized
    Succession crisis
    History of Church of Jesus Christ of LDS
    Scriptures
    Holy Bible (KJV)
    Book of Mormon
    Doctrine & Covenants
    Pearl of Great Price
    Significant Leaders
    Joseph Smith, Jr. · Oliver Cowdery
    Sidney Rigdon · Brigham Young
    Joseph Smith III · James Strang
    Gordon B. Hinckley
    Major Beliefs
    God · Jesus Christ · Faith · Repentance
    Baptism · Gift of the Holy Ghost
    Articles of Faith · Great Apostasy
    Descendants of Jacob (Israel) · Temples
    Conflicts
    Mormon War · Utah War
    Nauvoo Legion · Mormon Battalion
    Denominations
    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
    Bickertonite · Strangite · Hedrickite
    Fundamentalist LDS · Elijah Message
    In the Latter Day Saint movement (Mormonism), baptism is recognized as one of the four basic principles of the gospel, in addition to faith in Jesus, repentance, and the gift of th
    e Holy Spirit. As with many other Restorationist faiths, baptism must be by immersion for the remission of sins (meaning that through baptism, past sins are forgiven), and occurs after one has shown faith and repentance. LDS baptism does not intend to remit any sins other than personal ones, as the LDS Church does not believe in original sin.

    Latter Day Saint baptisms also occur only after an “age of accountability,” or the age at which a child begins to know right from wrong, which is defined by the church as the age of eight years. Mormonism rejects infant baptism. In addition, Mormonism requires that baptism may only be performed with one who has been called and ordained by God with priesthood authority. Since the LDS church has a lay priesthood, children raised in an LDS family are usually baptized by a father or close male friend or family member who has achieved the office of Priest which is conferred to “worthy” male members at the age of 16.

    Latter Day Saints do not believe that the gift of the Holy Spirit occurs immediately after baptism; rather, the gift is given by the laying on of hands in a separate confirmation ritual after baptism. This ritual is confirmed by Paul's actions in Acts 19:6, where, following the baptism of several followers of Christ, he “laid his hands upon” those who were baptized and they then received the Holy Ghost.

    The process of repentance and sanctification continues by partaking of the Sacrament every Sunday which Latter Day Saints consider to be a renewal of one's baptismal covenant with God. They also believe that baptism is symbolic both of Jesus's death, burial and resurrection and of the death and burial of the natural or sinful man and rebirth as a disciple of Jesus of the one baptized.

    In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (or “Mormon” Church), baptism and confirmation are only the first of several ordinances believed to be required for exaltation. Membership into the LDS Church is granted only by baptism whether or not a person has been raised in the church. As Latter-day Saints do not recognize the validity of baptisms of other faiths, all who come into the church as converts are baptized, even if they have previously received baptism in another faith. The person being baptized must be at least eight years old. The church also practices baptism for the dead (along with all other ordinances) “vicariously” or “by proxy” in their temples for anyone who did not receive these ordinances while living.

    Baptisms inside and outside the temples are usually done in a font, although they can be performed in any body of water in which the person may be completely immersed. In Latter-day Saint temples, where proxy baptisms are performed for the dead, the fonts rest on the sculptures of twelve oxen representing the twelve tribes of Israel, following the pattern of the “molten sea” in the Temple of Solomon (see 2 Chronicles 4:2-5). Great care is taken in the execution of the baptism; if the baptism is not executed properly it must be redone. The person administering the baptism must recite the prayer exactly, and immerse every part, limb, hair and clothing of the person being baptised. If there are any mistakes, or if any part of the person being baptized is not fully immersed, the baptism must be redone. In addition to the baptizer, two priesthood holders witness the baptism to ensure that it is performed properly.

    [edit]
    Jehovah's Witnesses
    Baptism is also done by Jehovah's Witnesses, who believe that it should be performed by complete immersion only when one is old enough to understand the significance of it. They teach that water baptism is an outward symbol that one has made a complete, unreserved, and unconditional dedication through Jesus Christ to do the will of Jehovah God. Jehovah's Witnesses usually baptize converts at large conventions rather than at the local Kingdom Halls.

    [edit]
    Baptism in Churches of Christ
    Maintaining that Alexander Campbell, Barton Stone and their associates modelled their church after the pattern of the first-century church, as founded on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2), the churches popularly known as Churches of Christ believe they are following the exact practice as established in the first century Church and as commanded in the New Testament. They teach the following about baptism:

    Baptism, as commanded in the great commission (Matthew 28:18-20) is a full immersion in water (Acts 8:38) and is for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38).
    Baptism is valid only after the belief and confession that “Jesus is the Son of God” and repentance of sin.
    As stated in Matthew 28:19, baptism is performed in the name of “the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit”. This does not, however, mean that this phrase must be recited verbatim at baptism, but that it is done “by the authority of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.” Reciting the phrase “in the name of Jesus Christ” is also Biblical and has the same meaning, since the Son shares the same authority as the Father and the Holy Spirit.
    Upon baptism the believer receives the “Gift of the Holy Spirit.” This wording from Acts 2:38 is believed by some to mean that the Holy Spirit as given to the new Christian either literally or symbolically as a gift, and believed by others to refer to salvation as the gift from the Holy Spirit. The Church of Christ does not teach that believers receive miraculous gifts, such as speaking in tongues.
    When one is baptized he or she is saved and added by the Lord to the church.
    According to Church of Christ interpretation, Acts 2:38 teaches that repentance precedes baptism and the remission of sins occurs at baptism. This belief is further explained by 1 Peter 3:21 in which Peter says that “Baptism doth also now save us”, indicating that it is essential to salvation. Some have been so disturbed by the clarity of the 1 Peter verse that they have followed Martin Luther's example and sought to remove it from their Bibles.[citation needed] Romans 6:3 also states that baptism puts one “into Christ”. Valid baptism may be administered by any member of the Church as long as it is administered according to the scriptures. Some members would assert that even a non-Christian may perform baptism, leading to the possibility that two isolated non-Christians could baptize each other. While there is some division over this matter, most would concur that the important actor in baptism is God, not the person doing the baptizing.

    There is a movement within the religious community recently which acknowledges that while God did in fact command baptism, He saves us at the point of faith- this movement genrally accepts that the sinner must verbalize the the “sinner's prayer”. To understand baptism in the 'classic' Church of Christ sense could be seen by those of this movement as close to a works based salvation, although they are willing to demand the saved person live by faith and pray the sinner's prayer.

    [edit]
    Baptism in Hyperdispensationalism
    Hyperdispensationalists assert:

    The great commission (Matthew 28:18-20) and its baptism is directed to early Jewish believers, not the Gentile believers of mid-Acts or later.
    The baptism of Acts 2:36-38 is Peter's call for Israel to repent of complicity in the death of the Messiah; not as an Gospel announcement of atonement for sin, a later doctrine revealed by Paul.
    Water baptism found early in the book of Acts is now supplanted by the one baptism (1 Cor 12:13) foretold by John the Baptist {Luke 3:16, John 1:33, Matt 3:11, Acts 1:5}. The one baptism for today is the “baptism of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 11:15-16). Many in this group also argue that John's promised baptism by fire is pending, referring to the destruction of the world by fire (Matthew 3:12, Luke 3:17, 2 Peter 3:10).

    John, as he said “baptized with water,” as did Jesus' disciples to the early, Jewish Christian church. However, Jesus himself never baptized with water (John 4:2). Unlike Jesus' first Apostles, Paul, his Apostle
    to the Gentiles, was not commanded to baptize (1 Cor 1:17) in the same manner as them (cf. Math 28:19).

    #23787
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Whew,
    Now what are you trying to say here?
    Are you a 'hyperdispenationalist'
    Perhaps you like the modern ideas rather than biblical truth?

    Baptism in blood here differs from your novel ideas and relates to martyrdomm.

    Have you found any with similar ideas to yours?

    #23837

    The reason I posted about the baptisms is to reveal to all the catholic church stand on baptism Nick. That is one reason I posted it. For you subscribe to the very type. You can find how you believe in this article, for you believe that a man must recieve water baptism to be saved.

    The interesting part of the story is you talk about the whore of Rome, the catholic church, but yet, you stand on the very belief that is practiced by this pagan religion and that is that water baptism saves a man. So don't talk to me about scripture. The Lord has given me proof to convict the whore of Rome and what she did to the gospel of Christ and when she did it. And at the same time, he has uncovered how you still stand with the catholic church on water baptism. You need to break away from the teachings of this false religion. Do not believe the words of men.

    #23841
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi H,
    The catholic church believes not in faith but in magic.
    She call these magic rituals sacraments.

    She believes that the action of water baptism ALONE without faith and without repentance is what saves.

    That is why she teaches infant baptism.

    I have never said that.
    Scripture does not say that.

    You are confused again.

    #23846

    Read again Nick. The catholic church changed at different times throughout history. They believe that water baptism saves, as do you. Tell me that this is not where you got this doctine.

    The catholic church would change doctrine often with passing popes. Their doctine never stayed the same. I agree that it is evil and their practices are paganistic. Yet, what I said stands true.

    They, as you, believe that it is with water that a man is saved. You have made it plain in the past posts that if a man did not have water baptism, he was not saved. This is the way of the catholic belief. This was also adopted by the presbyterians and methodists.

    So, you can say yes, you stand with the above in that if one does not recieve the water baptism, they are not saved. Or you can believe the Word of God. Where do you stand?

    #23884
    Oxy
    Participant

    According to my understanding of Scripture there are 3 baptisms. There is the baptism into Christ (water baptism), the baptism in the Holy Spirit and the baptism unto death, which is followed by the ressurection. This is depicted by the 3 feasts that must be kept forever. By being born again you are keeping the feast of Passover. By being baptised in the Holy Spirt you are keeping the Feast of Pentecost. By accepting the baptism unto death you are keeping the feast of Tabernacles. For more on this see my page

    http://www.all4god.net/beyond_pentecost.htm

    #23885
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi H,
    You are indeed deceived if you think you and I can judge
    who is
    and
    who is not saved.

    Salvation is only in the hands of God and His Son.
    You have learned nothing if you believe you can save anyone.
    Even Matt 25 shows us that there are many shown mercy outside of the way of Jesus.

    But we must individually obey as best we can the commands of God shown in the bible.
    And we must preach the revealed way of Jesus to others
    in it's completeness
    if we serve the Master,
    and want to be part of the rescue plan of God.

    The rest is intellectual nonsense.

    Your words
    “So, you can say yes, you stand with the above in that if one does not recieve the water baptism, they are not saved. Or you can believe the Word of God. Where do you stand?”

    #23886
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 09 2006,08:50)
    According to my understanding of Scripture there are 3 baptisms.  There is the baptism into Christ (water baptism), the baptism in the Holy Spirit and the baptism unto death, which is followed by the ressurection.  This is depicted by the 3 feasts that must be kept forever.  By being born again you are keeping the feast of Passover.  By being baptised in the Holy Spirt you are keeping the Feast of Pentecost.  By accepting the baptism unto death you are keeping the feast of Tabernacles.  For more on this see my page

    http://www.all4god.net/beyond_pentecost.htm


    Hi Oxy,
    The baptism unto death is water baptism.[Rom 6.3]

    #23898

    Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 09 2006,08:50)
    According to my understanding of Scripture there are 3 baptisms.  There is the baptism into Christ (water baptism), the baptism in the Holy Spirit and the baptism unto death, which is followed by the ressurection.  This is depicted by the 3 feasts that must be kept forever.  By being born again you are keeping the feast of Passover.  By being baptised in the Holy Spirt you are keeping the Feast of Pentecost.  By accepting the baptism unto death you are keeping the feast of Tabernacles.  For more on this see my page

    http://www.all4god.net/beyond_pentecost.htm


    Dear oxy,

    When a man is born again, he is baptized into Christ. He is baptized into his death. This is the first baptism. If we do not receive this baptism, the others are non-effect.

    Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

    4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

    5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

    6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

    7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

    8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

    9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

    10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

    11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    This is the actual event that happens when we are baptized into Christ through his blood. This is our salvation. Many confuse this with water baptism, but it is not. This is the baptism that saves us. This is what happens inside the man.

    As for the baptism in water, we are baptized in the name of Christ, we are not baptized into Christ. There is a difference. The baptism of water is symbolic of Christ's death and resurrection. It is telling the world that a man is a new creature in Christ. For the world cannot see the first baptism, for this is between the man and God. But the water baptism is an outward testament of the inward event to all, that you are a born again. And by doing this, God is glorified. It gives the man a good concience towards God.

    1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

    #23911
    typrsn
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 09 2006,09:14)

    Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 09 2006,08:50)
    According to my understanding of Scripture there are 3 baptisms.  There is the baptism into Christ (water baptism), the baptism in the Holy Spirit and the baptism unto death, which is followed by the ressurection.  This is depicted by the 3 feasts that must be kept forever.  By being born again you are keeping the feast of Passover.  By being baptised in the Holy Spirt you are keeping the Feast of Pentecost.  By accepting the baptism unto death you are keeping the feast of Tabernacles.  For more on this see my page

    http://www.all4god.net/beyond_pentecost.htm


    Hi Oxy,
    The baptism unto death is water baptism.[Rom 6.3]


    Amen.

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