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As far as I know, the apostles would make sure that once a person was saved, born again, they received water baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Now, it was common practice in the early church that all who were born again were immediately taken and given water baptism. As for the baptism in the Holy Spirit, it did often happen until an apostle or a man of God would come and give the baptism by the laying on of hands. Now, the gentiles were saved, and then received the baptism of the Holy Spirit without the laying on of hands before they were baptized in water.
So as to the order of the baptisms, it matters only that the baptism of salvation comes first, which is by faith and is the free gift from God. The water baptism and the Holy Spirit baptism can come in either order. This is proven in scripture.
Yet, there is the thief on the cross.
There has been an attack on this doctrine by those who oppose what is righteous and true. I have asked them to do this study, but instead, they would rather stand from afar and cast their firey darts. Yet, for those who are covered by the blood of the lamb, we have nothing to fear. For we have victory in Christ. I have asked all to do this study.
To understand scripture is more then trying to understand one verse or two. We must get all the pieces of the puzzle that pertain to a subject to make sure we form the entire picture. We must make sure that all the pieces of the puzzle are for the perticular picture so as to not get a deformed view of the picture.
So we must have all the pieces and they must be all the correct pieces that pertain to the subject. By doing this, we can come to a more perfect understanding of the Word of God. That is why I ask all to do the study on the baptisms. In the day of the apostles, the baptisms were performed in a way given from God by the unction of the Holy Spirit.
Yet, there came a time in history that men changed the order in how the baptisms were to be performed. The effect of this caused the spiritual gifts that come with the baptism of the Holy Spirit to die out or cease to be used in the Church. This created a Church that had a form of godliness, but denied the power of the Holy Spirit. It weaked the faith.
Today, because of the freedom of religion, we once again see Churchs that bear the sign of the believer as in Mark 16.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Yet, there are some who do the baptism as the way it was done according to scripture. Yet, not all. Some still do not go according to scripture in all aspects and often times say they are practicing or using tongues, but are not. These, beware of. Not that tongues is not of the spirit, God forbid, for it is. But if these who are saying they are speaking in tongues have not received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, then what tongue is it they use? What spirit do they pray to? That is why it is so important to make sure that it is done perfectly as according to the Word of God. That is why I stress that all do the study on the baptisms. It is a matter of discerment.
Hi H,
You say
“So as to the order of the baptisms, it matters only that the baptism of salvation comes first, which is by faith “
So where is this baptism, called baptism, shown in scripture, or do we have to follow you on this matter?Did you do the study on baptisms as I asked? If you do, it will become clear if the truth is in you.
Romans 6:3 is the baptism of salvation. 1 Peter 3:21
It tells us in scripture there is one baptism, yet, upon further study, you plainly see there is more then one baptism. So what is this one baptism it speaks of. It is not the same baptism that spoken of many times referring to the others. The other two baptisms are the baptisms that are performed after this baptism. This baptism must come first, or the other baptisms are invalid, meaningless.
This is the baptism that brings a man from death to life, from darkness to light, from bondage to freedom. This baptism is what brings a man from being a soul sold unto sin, to a blood bought soul. This baptism is the baptism that brings us all into the family of God. It seperates us from the world. This is the baptism of salvation, being born again, the baptism into Christ through his blood.
1 Corinthians 12:13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all given to drink into one Spirit.
Ephesians 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Hi H,
No you are deceived.
You are trying to build a doctrine by adding scriptures you thinkINFER what you say
without first finding the rock of a scripture that actually
STATES what you say.
So you are on your own apart from scripture and the Spirit of Christ so attracting believers to this new doctrine is just attacting them to you, who daily shows yourself to be
a unteachable and slanderous false teacher.
Hi H,
1Cor 11
“5But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.6For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
7For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
8For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.
9Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
10For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
11Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
12For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
13Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
14Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
16But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God. “
So you could try to build a doctrine that women must cover their heads in prayer and it would have some validity as it is written. It thus already has more validity than your doctrine about the so called “baptism of blood” as you cannot find ONE scripture speaking directly of it.
But the teaching from Paul lacks witnesses, and truth is established in the mouth of witnesses as shown in this scripture with it's witnessing verses.
2Cor 13
” 1This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.”Deut 17.6
” 6″On the evidence of two witnesses or three witnesses, he who is to die shall be put to death; he shall not be put to death on the evidence of one witness. “Deut 19
” 15″A single witness shall not rise up against a man on account of any iniquity or any sin which he has committed; on the evidence of two or three witnesses a matter shall be confirmed. “Matt 18
” 16″But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. “So should it be insisted upon as a doctrine that women must cover their head in prayer? No I do not think so.
Should we follow you who lacks one scripture saying what you teach is true?
Hardly.
Nick, if you cannot see that it is by the blood of Christ that ties us all together into Christ, then that is further proof that you are not of Christ.
As for your comments. You continue to criticise. Yet, as I have asked you before, did you do the study as I have laid out?
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Oct. 15 2006,18:13) Nick, if you cannot see that it is by the blood of Christ that ties us all together into Christ, then that is further proof that you are not of Christ.
Hi H,
We who are in Christ are bound in unity through being baptised into the family of God in the death and resurrection of Jesus.
Eph 4
” 3Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
Matt. 20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
Hi H,
Without qualification by the Spirit of God it means the unity in water baptism.
There is no baptism of blood in scripture.Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Oct. 15 2006,19:45) Matt. 20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. 23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
Hi H,
So whose blood do you say the disciples were to be baptised with if this refers to a “baptism of blood”? Their own?Hi H,
Where is this baptism written plainly for us berean searchers?Is it one of these?
Heb 6
“instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment”Or act16
“And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.”
or
” 33And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. “If the truth was in you, you would know what is and what is not of God. Yet, you do not see for you are not of the same spirit.
I have asked you repeatedly to do the study on the baptisms. Yet, you refuse to do so. For to do so could me to come to the truth. And to come to the truth would mean admitting you are wrong. It is safer for you who do not have the truth in you to hide within the confines of your own vindictive nature. Yet, that is why you cannot see what is of God. For you claim of the one hand to be doing the will of God, yet on the other, you spit in his face by arguing against what is faithful and true. Your doctrine and all that you teach is vomit in the eyes of the Lord. Until you learn to not seek that of the flesh and seek only that which is of God, you will be held in bondage. You cannot sup at the table of the Lord and that of his enemy. You cannot compromise his Word.
It would be different if you did the study, but you would not even try. And even if you did, I doubt you would see the truth in it unless you did it with a sincere heart, a heart seeking the face of God. I am still not convinced you have been born again. I don't see how anyone could be saved, born again and not know the things of God. Yet, only God knows the hearts of men.
Hi H,
We have only asked for one scripture saying there is a baptism of blood and you have not found one so it seems unwise to proceed to build a grand scheme on this basis without a solid foundation. Then as for altering the meaning of baptism in scripture, when it suits you, to support this baptism.. that is scriptural abuse.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 16 2006,18:01) Hi H,
We have only asked for one scripture saying there is a baptism of blood and you have not found one so it seems unwise to proceed to build a grand scheme on this basis without a solid foundation. Then as for altering the meaning of baptism in scripture, when it suits you, to support this baptism.. that is scriptural abuse.
Amen.And I have told you that if you did the study, you might just see the truth. But instead, you and yours, would rather just not care to know any other truth then your own. What about God's? Oh what an evil and perverse world we live in. Just as it says in scriptures. This is the day of the sons of perdition. This is the day of Noah. Where men eat and drink and continue doing as they will until destruction consumes them.
Gen. 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Sultan, I pray the Lord deal with you in a way that brings your heart to him.
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