- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (thethinker @ June 28 2009,06:41) Quote (Cindy @ June 27 2009,14:06) thinker Do you even understand what the 70 weeks prophesied?
The 70 weeks were over three and a half years after Christs death; how do you make the connection with the 70 weeks, and 70 AD?Georg
Georg,
I have answered this already. You ave misconceptions of Daniel's prophecy. Jesus told His disciples that they would see the abomination of desolation that was spoken of by Daniel the prophet.Quote Therefore, when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place…then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains (Matt. 24:15) Jesus told His disciples that they would see it. Therefore, Daniel's 70th week was fulfilled before they all died. According to Luke's account the abomination that makes desolate were armies (Lk. 21:20-24). History tells us that they were the armies led by Titus. This was fulfilled in AD70.
thinker
It's ALL been fulfilled Georg.
Well, all I can say is, the picture you have chosen shows were your thinking comes from.Georg
Quote (Cindy @ June 29 2009,01:14) Quote (thethinker @ June 28 2009,06:41) Quote (Cindy @ June 27 2009,14:06) thinker Do you even understand what the 70 weeks prophesied?
The 70 weeks were over three and a half years after Christs death; how do you make the connection with the 70 weeks, and 70 AD?Georg
Georg,
I have answered this already. You have misconceptions of Daniel's prophecy. Jesus told His disciples that they would see the abomination of desolation that was spoken of by Daniel the prophet.Quote Therefore, when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place…then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains (Matt. 24:15) Jesus told His disciples that they would see it. Therefore, Daniel's 70th week was fulfilled before they all died. According to Luke's account the abomination that makes desolate were armies (Lk. 21:20-24). History tells us that they were the armies led by Titus. This was fulfilled in AD70.
thinker
It's ALL been fulfilled Georg.
Well, all I can say is, the picture you have chosen shows were your thinking comes from.Georg
Georg,
What is that suppose to mean? Was Jesus a false prophet? If He said that the disciples would see an event come to pass and it does not come to pass, then this would make Jesus a false prophet. Right? You have only two choices. Either believe the books you have read or believe Jesus.Since you believe that the disciples did not see the abomination of desolation as Jesus said they would then they must have stoned Jesus when they got to heaven.
thinker
Quote (Country boy @ June 28 2009,14:27) Quote (thethinker @ June 27 2009,14:00) Quote (Cindy @ June 27 2009,13:18) thinker According to you, everything was fulfilled in AD 70. You should have read the rest of the bible.
Georg
Georg,
Yes! All things were fulfilled by the end of Daniel's 70th week. We are in the eternal new covenant age now.thinker
Can you explain the 70 weeks of Daniel concisely? If it's too long, I can start another thread.Also, do you believe in a literal 200,000,000-man army? And if so, I would assume you believe that it already happened. Is there a record of this happening? Honest question.
Country boy,
Jesus instructed His disciples that they would see the abomination that makes desolate (Matt. 24:15; Mark 13:14; Luke 21:20-21). How do you think they took Christ's statement? Do you think they took His statement at face value? Put yourself in the place of those who heard Christ speak those words. If you had been standing there and Jesus told you that you would see the abomination of desolation would you not expect to see it?The warfare in Revelation is clearly spiritual in nature. The number of the army is NOT a literal two million and neither is it an army of men. It is only four angels in view who have such great power that it is represented as the power of two hundred million warriors.
Quote Then the sixth angels sounded; And I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, saying to the sixth angel, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.” So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and the day and month and year, were released to kill the third of mankind. Now the number of the army of the horsemen was two hundred million Please note that it says that the FOUR ANGELS were released to kill the third of mankind. In other words, the two hundred million “horsemen” represent the great power of the four angels. The text goes on to say that the men were killed by the fire and smoke that came out of the horses mouths. Now we know that horses do not literally spew fire and smoke from their mouths.
A minimal effort to read carefully shows that the warfare spoken about here is spiritual in nature. And it is four angels that are doing the killing. They have power so great that they are represented as two hundred million warriors.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ June 29 2009,03:29) Quote (Cindy @ June 29 2009,01:14) Quote (thethinker @ June 28 2009,06:41) Quote (Cindy @ June 27 2009,14:06) thinker Do you even understand what the 70 weeks prophesied?
The 70 weeks were over three and a half years after Christs death; how do you make the connection with the 70 weeks, and 70 AD?Georg
Georg,
I have answered this already. You have misconceptions of Daniel's prophecy. Jesus told His disciples that they would see the abomination of desolation that was spoken of by Daniel the prophet.Quote Therefore, when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place…then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains (Matt. 24:15) Jesus told His disciples that they would see it. Therefore, Daniel's 70th week was fulfilled before they all died. According to Luke's account the abomination that makes desolate were armies (Lk. 21:20-24). History tells us that they were the armies led by Titus. This was fulfilled in AD70.
thinker
It's ALL been fulfilled Georg.
Well, all I can say is, the picture you have chosen shows were your thinking comes from.Georg
Georg,
What is that suppose to mean? Was Jesus a false prophet? If He said that the disciples would see an event come to pass and it does not come to pass, then this would make Jesus a false prophet. Right? You have only two choices. Either believe the books you have read or believe Jesus.Since you believe that the disciples did not see the abomination of desolation as Jesus said they would then they must have stoned Jesus when they got to heaven.
thinker
thinkerWhat makes you think that what Jesus was telling the apostles was only for their time? Most of the apostles were already dead by the time Jerusalem fell; they didn't even get to see that.
Just what in your opinion is the abomination that makes desolate; makes what desolate?
Give me a straight answer, no monkeying around.Georg
Georg said:
Quote What makes you think that what Jesus was telling the apostles was only for their time? Most of the apostles were already dead by the time Jerusalem fell; they didn't even get to see that.
Just what in your opinion is the abomination that makes desolate; makes what desolate?
Give me a straight answer, no monkeying around.Georg,
You need to chill out dude! What is your evidence that most of the apostles were dead by the time Jerusalem fell? Why would Jesus tell them that THEY would see the abomination of desolation?Luke 21,
Quote Truly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till ALL things take place (21:32) Jesus was answering them plainly. He was not “monkeying” around. He said that THEIR generation would by no means expire till ALL THINGS took place. This is how we know that Daniel's prophecies were NOT for our time. Your views are based in books that modern day “theologians” have written. None of it can stand up to what Jesus said about the timing of the events of Daniel's prophecy.
I have always been fond of you and Irene. But lately your behavior has been substandard. I hope Irene has grabbed you by your ear like she has done with Paladin and others of us.
thinker
Hey thinker: Good stuff. When scriptures are quoted that are easy to understand and people defiantly refuse to change their doctrine, it tells me that they really don't want to know the Truth of God. I wanted to give an opinion on the abomination of desolation question. In Daniel 12:11 is says,…”from the time the daily sacrifice shall be taken away and the abomination that maketh desolate set up there shall be one thousand, two hundred and ninety days (1290).v12…blessed is he that waiteth and commeth to the thousand three hundred and five and thrity days..” (1335) 45days later. Jesus did away with the daily sacrifice and preached the New Kingdom for approximately 1290 days (three and a half years) It could be the abomination was the crucifixtion of Jesus, the Son of God which made desolate the entire old covenant, church and the Jews as nation. In the New Covenant a Jew is not a Jew that is one outwardly (by bloodline) but all people are chosen of God that are circumcised of the heart and have faith in God. The extra 45 day wait was unto the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and blessed are those who partake. Some lived to see that fulfillment and some did not. Bless you, TK
Quote (Tim Kraft @ June 29 2009,22:06) Hey thinker: Good stuff. When scriptures are quoted that are easy to understand and people defiantly refuse to change their doctrine, it tells me that they really don't want to know the Truth of God. I wanted to give an opinion on the abomination of desolation question. In Daniel 12:11 is says,…”from the time the daily sacrifice shall be taken away and the abomination that maketh desolate set up there shall be one thousand, two hundred and ninety days (1290).v12…blessed is he that waiteth and commeth to the thousand three hundred and five and thrity days..” (1335) 45days later. Jesus did away with the daily sacrifice and preached the New Kingdom for approximately 1290 days (three and a half years) It could be the abomination was the crucifixtion of Jesus, the Son of God which made desolate the entire old covenant, church and the Jews as nation. In the New Covenant a Jew is not a Jew that is one outwardly (by bloodline) but all people are chosen of God that are circumcised of the heart and have faith in God. The extra 45 day wait was unto the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and blessed are those who partake. Some lived to see that fulfillment and some did not. Bless you, TK
TK,
Thanks for the encouragement. All the prophetic sensationalism that goes on today is the result of books that people have read. The authors of these books take scriptures out of their context like the two hundred million horsemen for example. It clearly says that the killing is done by the four angels. The Revelation contains all the apocalyptic visions of the spiritual warfare of the first Christians. Revelation 1:3 explicitly says that the things John saw were to SHORTLY come to pass and they did.I believe that the abomination of desolation had to do with the actual cessation of the daily sacrifices. This occurred when the temple was destroyed in AD70. There has been no temple or sacrifices offered since.
thinker
Quote (Tim Kraft @ June 29 2009,22:06) Hey thinker: Good stuff. When scriptures are quoted that are easy to understand and people defiantly refuse to change their doctrine, it tells me that they really don't want to know the Truth of God. I wanted to give an opinion on the abomination of desolation question. In Daniel 12:11 is says,…”from the time the daily sacrifice shall be taken away and the abomination that maketh desolate set up there shall be one thousand, two hundred and ninety days (1290).v12…blessed is he that waiteth and commeth to the thousand three hundred and five and thrity days..” (1335) 45days later. Jesus did away with the daily sacrifice and preached the New Kingdom for approximately 1290 days (three and a half years) It could be the abomination was the crucifixtion of Jesus, the Son of God which made desolate the entire old covenant, church and the Jews as nation. In the New Covenant a Jew is not a Jew that is one outwardly (by bloodline) but all people are chosen of God that are circumcised of the heart and have faith in God. The extra 45 day wait was unto the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and blessed are those who partake. Some lived to see that fulfillment and some did not. Bless you, TK
TK,
I forgot to reply to your point about being a Jew. You are correct that the true Jew is not of bloodline. Paul was clear about this (Rom. 2). Even so, there are no blood Jews in existence today anyway. When Jerusalem fell they were taken captives into all nations and intermarried. Over time their bloodline was lost. Jesus judged them for rejecting Him and He left their house “desolate.”thinker
Quote (thethinker @ June 30 2009,05:32) Quote (Tim Kraft @ June 29 2009,22:06) Hey thinker: Good stuff. When scriptures are quoted that are easy to understand and people defiantly refuse to change their doctrine, it tells me that they really don't want to know the Truth of God. I wanted to give an opinion on the abomination of desolation question. In Daniel 12:11 is says,…”from the time the daily sacrifice shall be taken away and the abomination that maketh desolate set up there shall be one thousand, two hundred and ninety days (1290).v12…blessed is he that waiteth and commeth to the thousand three hundred and five and thrity days..” (1335) 45days later. Jesus did away with the daily sacrifice and preached the New Kingdom for approximately 1290 days (three and a half years) It could be the abomination was the crucifixtion of Jesus, the Son of God which made desolate the entire old covenant, church and the Jews as nation. In the New Covenant a Jew is not a Jew that is one outwardly (by bloodline) but all people are chosen of God that are circumcised of the heart and have faith in God. The extra 45 day wait was unto the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and blessed are those who partake. Some lived to see that fulfillment and some did not. Bless you, TK
TK,
Thanks for the encouragement. All the prophetic sensationalism that goes on today is the result of books that people have read. The authors of these books take scriptures out of their context like the two hundred million horsemen for example. It clearly says that the killing is done by the four angels. The Revelation contains all the apocalyptic visions of the spiritual warfare of the first Christians. Revelation 1:3 explicitly says that the things John saw were to SHORTLY come to pass and they did.I believe that the abomination of desolation had to do with the actual cessation of the daily sacrifices. This occurred when the temple was destroyed in AD70. There has been no temple or sacrifices offered since.
thinker
Thinker: I forgot to say that the daily sacrifice and all temple service ended when Jesus started his ministry. At least as far as he was concerned it was not part of the New Covenant teachings. He did not observe the sacrifices or the sabbath or any of the old covenant temple rituals. It was left desolate!Blessing to you, TKTim kraft said:
Quote Thinker: I forgot to say that the daily sacrifice and all temple service ended when Jesus started his ministry. At least as far as he was concerned it was not part of the New Covenant teachings. He did not observe the sacrifices or the sabbath or any of the old covenant temple rituals. It was left desolate!Blessing to you, TK TK,
Though the sacrifices were rendered uneffectual by Jesus' death they still remained a problem for Jsome Jewish Christians. While the sacrifices continued many Jewish Christians were drawing back to the old covenant way. The book of Hebrews was written to warn them against going back to the old covenant way. So the sacrifices had to come to an end and they did when the temple was destroyed and Jerusalem fell. This is what Daniel was referring to when he said that the daily sacrifices would cease.thinker
Tim kraft said:
Quote Thinker: I forgot to say that the daily sacrifice and all temple service ended when Jesus started his ministry. At least as far as he was concerned it was not part of the New Covenant teachings. He did not observe the sacrifices or the sabbath or any of the old covenant temple rituals. It was left desolate!Blessing to you, TK TK,
Though the sacrifices were rendered uneffectual by Jesus' death they still remained a problem for some Jewish Christians. While the sacrifices continued many Jewish Christians were drawing back to the old covenant way. The book of Hebrews was written to warn them against going back to the old covenant way. So the sacrifices had to come to an end and they did when the temple was destroyed and Jerusalem fell. This is what Daniel was referring to when he said that the daily sacrifices would cease.thinker
I DON'T KNOW WHY THIS POST WAS DUPLICATED.
Tim kraft said:
Quote Thinker: I forgot to say that the daily sacrifice and all temple service ended when Jesus started his ministry. At least as far as he was concerned it was not part of the New Covenant teachings. He did not observe the sacrifices or the sabbath or any of the old covenant temple rituals. It was left desolate!Blessing to you, TK TK,
Though the sacrifices were rendered uneffectual by Jesus' death they still remained a problem for some Jewish Christians. While the sacrifices continued many Jewish Christians were drawing back to the old covenant way. The book of Hebrews was written to warn them against going back to the old covenant way. So the sacrifices had to come to an end and they did when the temple was destroyed and Jerusalem fell. This is what Daniel was referring to when he said that the daily sacrifices would cease.thinkER
thinker: I thought maybe you figured that if you said it a few times it might sink in. Bless you, I feel strong about not defending doctrines that we each create as we study and form our own beliefs. Were each so individual in this venture and there is much to grasp. To cut this short, I really don't care to much about the abomination that makes desolate. It is past, ended, done. I'm moving on. I do so enjoy everybody that post on this site. I not only learn from your post's but I feel the love many times. This is great. God bless everything you think and do. Peace and love, TK
Quote (Tim Kraft @ July 01 2009,22:17) thinker: I thought maybe you figured that if you said it a few times it might sink in. Bless you, I feel strong about not defending doctrines that we each create as we study and form our own beliefs. Were each so individual in this venture and there is much to grasp. To cut this short, I really don't care to much about the abomination that makes desolate. It is past, ended, done. I'm moving on. I do so enjoy everybody that post on this site. I not only learn from your post's but I feel the love many times. This is great. God bless everything you think and do. Peace and love, TK
TK,
Thanks bro! I love you too.God bless you,
thinkerQuote (thethinker @ June 29 2009,20:06) Georg said: Quote What makes you think that what Jesus was telling the apostles was only for their time? Most of the apostles were already dead by the time Jerusalem fell; they didn't even get to see that.
Just what in your opinion is the abomination that makes desolate; makes what desolate?
Give me a straight answer, no monkeying around.Georg,
You need to chill out dude! What is your evidence that most of the apostles were dead by the time Jerusalem fell? Why would Jesus tell them that THEY would see the abomination of desolation?Luke 21,
Quote Truly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till ALL things take place (21:32) Jesus was answering them plainly. He was not “monkeying” around. He said that THEIR generation would by no means expire till ALL THINGS took place. This is how we know that Daniel's prophecies were NOT for our time. Your views are based in books that modern day “theologians” have written. None of it can stand up to what Jesus said about the timing of the events of Daniel's prophecy.
I have always been fond of you and Irene. But lately your behavior has been substandard. I hope Irene has grabbed you by your ear like she has done with Paladin and others of us.
thinker
Since you didn't answer my question, I will tell you what the abomination is, and what it destroyed, made desolate.The setting up of the Mass sacrifice by the pope is the abomination because, it destroyed the true meaning of Christs sacrifice. Jesus died for us “once”, and with that forgave us “all” our sins; no more sacrifices for sins necessary.
Jesus may have spoken “to the apostles”, but it was not their generation he was speaking about.
It was in reference to the “fig tree”, when you see leaves appearing know that it is near.
The fig tree represents Israel, their nation ceased to exist after AD 70. The leaves symbolize Israel becoming a nation again; that happened in 1948.
The generation that would not pass till all things be fulfilled, is “this” generation, beginning in 1948.
“Know that what is near? the end of this era.
How will it end? with God's wrath being poured out on the entire evil world.
A generation is 70 years, thought you would like to know.Georg
Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 05 2009,19:49) A generation is 70 years, thought you would like to know.
Why?A generation, to me, is one reproductive interval in a species.
Not only has typical human life expectancy not necessarily been anywhere near 70 years in many parts of the world in much of recent history (last 10,000 years), but the reproductive interval is far lower.
I'd put a figure for generation at say 15-30 years myself. Multiple generations are of course possible within a single individuals lifespan – you wouldn't want to complete your reproductive cycle literally before dying, would you?
Quote (Douglas @ Aug. 07 2009,19:47) Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 05 2009,19:49) A generation is 70 years, thought you would like to know.
Why?A generation, to me, is one reproductive interval in a species.
Not only has typical human life expectancy not necessarily been anywhere near 70 years in many parts of the world in much of recent history (last 10,000 years), but the reproductive interval is far lower.
I'd put a figure for generation at say 15-30 years myself. Multiple generations are of course possible within a single individuals lifespan – you wouldn't want to complete your reproductive cycle literally before dying, would you?
Psa 90:10 The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.Georg
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
