2 questions from a Muslim

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  • #291107
    journey42
    Participant

    Quote (bodhitharta @ April 09 2012,09:46)
    If Jesus died foryour sins why then will you be judged according to your works?

    Revelation 20:12
    And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.


    Hi

    There are two resurrections.

    The first Ressurection
    1 Thess 4:14   For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    1 Thess 4:16   For the Lord shall himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first.
    1 Thess 4:17   Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    NOTE:  This FIRST resurrection, only involves those who existed from Christ onwards, and does not include those who were before Christ. the dead in Christ shall rise first

    There is a 1000 year gap now till the 2nd resurrection
    At Christ's 2nd coming, Satan will be chained in the bottomless pit for a thousand years.

    Rev 20:2   And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him a thousand years  
    Rev 20:3   And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should decieve the nations no more till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season

    Rev 20:5   But the rest of the dead lived not again until the 1000 years were finished…..

    During this time, Christ sets up his Kingdom in Jerusalem, and rules with the saints.  He will raise up the house of Israel (only the ones according to Gods choosing, the reserved) and bring them back IN THE FLESH to live in the kingdom and learn the new covenant (Christ).
    (Ezekiel ch 37-Israel brought to life in the flesh)
    but they will still die of old age. 

    Isaiah 65:20   There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

    They must learn the new covenant, because no man can enter unless he now go through Christ.  And this applies to them before Christ as well.
    John 14:6   Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    There are also surviving nations outside the kingdom, and the knowledge of the Lord will spread throughout the earth and the people will learn and get given a chance to repent and honour the King of Kings, Jesus Christ who is ruling from Jerusalem (not heaven)

    This is how the Jews will be provoked to jealousy.  The gentiles get raised FIRST, to spirit, and the surviving Jews who God was not pleased with will live outside the kingdom, whilst their accepted brethren live inside the kingdom.

    WHEN THE THOUSAND YEARS ARE EXPIRED
    Rev 20:7  When the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison. (Ezekiel ch 38 & 39 – Gog & Magog)

    Rev 20:8   And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle:  the number of whom is as the sand of the sea (Israelites who have multiplied now in the kingdom)

    But fire comes down from heaven, from God and destroys Sastan and his armies.

    NOW The second resurrection
    This judgement is for all those who did not make it into the first resurrection.  This judgement are for all those who existed before Christ, and those who existed after Christ and did not know him for many reasons, e.g., religion, custom.
    God is very fair.  He looks straight into the heart.  These people will be judged according to their deeds.  If their deeds were mainly good, and they had love in their heart, then they will be accepted.  Those who God judges evil will be thrown into the lake of fire for the sake of the good.

    So now I hope this answers your question to make it more clear for you.  TWO SEPERATE judgements.  One at Christ's return, and the second after the thousand years.  

    The saints will not be judged according to their works, because their works were righteous and acceptable before the Lord, because they obeyed the Word, and righteousness is in that Word,
    ….and because they accepted that mercy offered, repented, and followed the lamb, Jesus Christ.

    #291141
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Quote (Devolution @ April 09 2012,22:54)
    Oh Bodhitharta,

    I have asked you several times now, could you please answer…

    Why was Jesus when He walked this earth as a man, sent in Person only to the Jews?

    Thank you.


    Because he was “their” promised Messiah.

    #291143
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Quote (journey42 @ April 10 2012,00:01)

    Quote (bodhitharta @ April 09 2012,09:46)
    If Jesus died foryour sins why then will you be judged according to your works?

    Revelation 20:12
    And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.


    Hi

    There are two resurrections.

    The first Ressurection
    1 Thess 4:14   For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    1 Thess 4:16   For the Lord shall himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first.
    1 Thess 4:17   Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    NOTE:  This FIRST resurrection, only involves those who existed from Christ onwards, and does not include those who were before Christ. the dead in Christ shall rise first

    There is a 1000 year gap now till the 2nd resurrection
    At Christ's 2nd coming, Satan will be chained in the bottomless pit for a thousand years.

    Rev 20:2   And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him a thousand years  
    Rev 20:3   And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should decieve the nations no more till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season

    Rev 20:5   But the rest of the dead lived not again until the 1000 years were finished…..

    During this time, Christ sets up his Kingdom in Jerusalem, and rules with the saints.  He will raise up the house of Israel (only the ones according to Gods choosing, the reserved) and bring them back IN THE FLESH to live in the kingdom and learn the new covenant (Christ).
    (Ezekiel ch 37-Israel brought to life in the flesh)
    but they will still die of old age. 

    Isaiah 65:20   There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

    They must learn the new covenant, because no man can enter unless he now go through Christ.  And this applies to them before Christ as well.
    John 14:6   Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    There are also surviving nations outside the kingdom, and the knowledge of the Lord will spread throughout the earth and the people will learn and get given a chance to repent and honour the King of Kings, Jesus Christ who is ruling from Jerusalem (not heaven)

    This is how the Jews will be provoked to jealousy.  The gentiles get raised FIRST, to spirit, and the surviving Jews who God was not pleased with will live outside the kingdom, whilst their accepted brethren live inside the kingdom.

    WHEN THE THOUSAND YEARS ARE EXPIRED
    Rev 20:7  When the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison. (Ezekiel ch 38 & 39 – Gog & Magog)

    Rev 20:8   And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle:  the number of whom is as the sand of the sea (Israelites who have multiplied now in the kingdom)

    But fire comes down from heaven, from God and destroys Sastan and his armies.

    NOW The second resurrection
    This judgement is for all those who did not make it into the first resurrection.  This judgement are for all those who existed before Christ, and those who existed after Christ and did not know him for many reasons, e.g., religion, custom.
    God is very fair.  He looks straight into the heart.  These people will be judged according to their deeds.  If their deeds were mainly good, and they had love in their heart, then they will be accepted.  Those who God judges evil will be thrown into the lake of fire for the sake of the good.

    So now I hope this answers your question to make it more clear for you.  TWO SEPERATE judgements.  One at Christ's return, and the second after the thousand years.  

    The saints will not be judged according to their works, because their works were righteous and acceptable before the Lord, because they obeyed the Word, and righteousness is in that Word,
    ….and because they accepted that mercy offered,  repented, and followed the lamb, Jesus Christ.


    This was quite a piece of work but it doesn't sound quite right according to Jesus:

    Matthew 16:27
    For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

    When Jesus comes that is it, Matthew 16:27 is talking about Judgement it says “EVERY MAN” no seperation there. Your conclusion depends on odd interpretations what Jesus said was clear.

    #291144
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Quote (Devolution @ April 09 2012,23:22)

    Devolution,April wrote:

    [/quote]
    Hi Bodhitharta,

    Here is something i once read and liked and agreed with….
    Maybe it is something for you to consider…
    Or maybe not.

    Is the Holy Bible the Word of God? All of us need to know. A person’s very salvation can depend upon it.

    Numerous books have been written supposedly to prove its validity. Some try to demonstrate it through prophecy, others through doctrine, and still others resort to pure emotionalism. Emotionalism is weak evidence. But while the other factors can help demonstrate the Bible’s credibility, there is one major proof that predominates over all others. It is the witness of Christ himself. If Christ can be proved, that is, if proof can be shown that he was who he said he was, that will go a long way in proving the Bible itself. Let us look at this important proof.
    Are the Gospels Truthful?

    We wish to stress the importance of Christ’s witness in the matter of the Old and New Testament canon. The central proof of the Bible is Christ. How do we know that the Christ of the Gospels is divine—that he is actually the Son of the Living God, and especially that he was resurrected from the dead?

    If the Gospels are reliable, then no further proof should be needed. But are the Gospels and their witness true? Frankly, they need to be put to the test. There is nothing irreverent in this at all (1 Thessalonians 5:21). We need to apply to them the same basic rules to which scholars subject all other literature in order to prove its reliability.

    There are four major rules for proving the credibility of documents. One, was the writer of the document an eyewitness to the events he records or was he at least a contemporary that lived in the same area of the events? Two, were there other independent witnesses to corroborate the evidence? Three, did those witnesses continue to maintain their testimonies until death—even to the jeopardy of their lives? Four, were there also hostile witnesses who would have reason not to believe the evidence but still say the events occurred? If all of these four factors are in solid evidence, then reliability becomes very acceptable. With the New Testament documents, we have all four evidences in a firm position for credibility.

    Let us apply the first rule that the author must have been an eyewitness to the events.

    The Gospel of Matthew, for example, was composed not much longer than a generation after the death of Christ, at a time when hundreds, if not thousands, of witnesses to the crucifixion and resurrection were still alive. Matthew himself had lived through the events he describes. That is contemporaneity. And it guarantees to us reliable testimony. Let us see why.

    Suppose a writer in the Year 1970 wrote that a major prophet less than forty years before had gone throughout New York State, working so many miracles that thousands followed him from place to place; and that in Times Square, on July 4, 1935, when huge crowds of people were present, that same prophet had been executed at the behest of the government and the people of New York.

    If such a thing had happened back in 1935, there would still be many thousands of witnesses alive to attest to it.

    But on the other hand, if such an event never happened, could any living historian, writer, or journalist invent such a fallacious story, send it to the people of New York City, tell them to depend on its veracity with their lives, and persuade them to believe it? Of course not!

    But Matthew did not have to fabricate the life of Christ. According to ancient testimony, he wrote out his account and sent it to the people of Judea—the very people who had witnessed Christ’s activities—within forty years of His crucifixion. If these things really did not happen as Matthew said, then Matthew and the other Gospel writers were leaving themselves open to real and dangerous criticism.

    The Jews of Judea, of all peoples, would have known whether thousands had followed Jesus around the country. They knew whether or not the people of Jerusalem had used pressure upon the Roman authorities to crucify Him. Yet many of them—especially those in Jerusalem—came to believe the Christian message. They even became willing to give their lives for its truth. This fact alone is strong critical reason for accepting Matthew’s Gospel as relating substantial truth.
    Other Testimonies

    The second rule involves the having of independent witnesses to corroborate the evidence of an author.

    The execution of Jesus Christ was not done in a corner with just a few witnesses around to testify to it. On the contrary, Josephus tells us that at least two million people used to gather every year around Jerusalem at the Passover season (the time when Christ’s crucifixion took place) (Wars, 6. 9. 3).

    The more people there were to witness the event the more difficult it would become to invent and falsify matters. Christ’s death and his subsequent rejection by his own disciples became a well-known matter. The fact of many witnesses is a substantial safeguard to the veracity of the written records.

    Now notice the importance of this. Not only was Matthew’s Gospel written when many thousands who could witness to its truth were still alive, but nearly twenty one other New Testament books were composed before 68 C.E.—within thirty-seven years of Christ’s death. Our World War I ended just over fifty years ago, yet thousands upon thousands of witnesses are still alive to testify to that holocaust. In 68 C.E. there would have been thousands of persons still living who had witnessed those earlier events in Jerusalem at the time of Christ.

    Actually, with twenty-one of the New Testament books written within 37 years of Christ’s activities, we can call all these books contemporary records. These documents were written when there were still many witnesses to the events.
    The Witness of the Apostles

    The third rule concerns continued belief—even until death. Could any believe that the Gospel writers were consistently lying (a vice which they utterly condemned), yet they were remarkably willing to give up their lives for the “lies” which they were propagating? It might be imagined that one or two might lie (I am speaking humanly), but that every one of the apostles plus hundreds of others were liars is untenable.

    It is related in the Gospel of Mark—a Gospel which was inspired by Peter’s preaching—as can be demonstrated—that Peter and all the apostles fled as cowards from the crucifixion scene. They did not remain anywhere in the vicinity of the Jewish and Roman authorities. And while we may doubt that they rejoiced to record their own cowardly display, this defection and flight of Christ’s key men was not a hidden matter. Let us see how their defection becomes an amazing testimony to the truth of Christ’s resurrection three days later.

    The Law commanded the whole Jewish nation to celebrate three seasons with great solemnity: Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles. Almost invariably, the same people who journeyed to Jerusalem at Passover would be back there for the next festival. Therefore, Christ had directed his apostles to wait in Jerusalem until the Feast of Pentecost. One reason was to have the same Passover crowd who earlier had been present at the crucifixion back in Jerusalem fifty days later.

    This time, those multitudes were to witness something different. They were no longer to witness a cowardly flight of Christ’s disciples. This time the people in Jerusalem would observe a display of such power and conviction by those once-afraid disciples, that nothing could humanly account for it.

    These disciples, who had been terrified of that same crowd just fifty days
    earlier, now stood in the midst of them, each man witnessing with assurance and dynamic conviction to Christ’s resurrection. None was fearful for his own personal life.

    The Book of Acts makes this plain. And, should there be someone who would question the reliability of this document, it should be noted that the Book of Acts was written within forty years after the first Pentecost—an event which took place in the midst of thousands of people in Jerusalem. The Book of Acts, in regard to literary criticism, is a contemporary document—written at a time when thousands of witnesses were still alive. There can be no doubt that Luke’s record in Acts is definitely reliable.

    What needs to be noticed is the change of attitude in Christ’s apostles in those fifty short days. These men no longer feared the Romans. They no longer feared the Jews. They no longer doubted Christ’s mission, nor the fact of his resurrection. All eleven of the original apostles were consistent in their teaching. Is it possible to believe that they were all lying? The understanding of basic human psychology suffices against our believing that eleven individual men could one after another deceptively tell a crowd they once feared that Christ was now alive from the dead. They were jeopardizing their lives before that crowd by preaching Christ’s resurrection.
    The Church Begins

    Historians agree that the Christian church began on that Pentecost Day in the First Century. It is also well known that the Christian message began to be preached not long afterward around the world. The growth of the Christian church gained strong momentum by the end of the First Century. Thousands upon thousands from all nationalities were beginning to accept the central truth of Christianity—the fact of the resurrection of Christ.

    This rapid spread of belief in Christ’s resurrection can only be accounted for by the astounding enthusiasm that must have been manifested by the first propagators. Are we to imagine that the Christian message could have grown so quickly if the original witnesses to the resurrection showed no emotion nor real conviction in the matter?

    Peter continued to live for at least thirty-five years after the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ, and so did many of the other apostles. Could the message have grown without all the apostles’ continued conviction in that resurrection? Of course not. One thing must be admitted if nothing else: the people were convinced that the apostles were convinced.

    Paul tells us that not only were the original eleven apostles witnesses that Christ was resurrected, but also over five hundred others saw him as well (1 Corinthians 15:6). Paul put out the challenge to people in 55 C.E. to go to Jerusalem and look up some of those five hundred for themselves. Even after a period for reflection of twenty-four years (in 55 C.E.) there were many in Jerusalem who still believed that Christ rose from the dead. If what Paul wrote was a lie, then he was leaving himself wide open to censure.
    The Apostle Paul

    The fourth rule for reliability concerns hostile witnesses. Did those who wished not to believe the evidence—even though they were there when it happened—still admit that it was a fact? Paul, among others, was such a witness. What was his belief concerning Christ’s resurrection?

    Paul himself figures very prominently in proving the fact of Christ’s resurrection. Since all scholars are prepared to accept at least ten of Paul’s Epistles to be genuine, let us bring him forth as a witness. The rules of literary criticism show him to be reliable, for Paul wrote at a time when many of his statements could easily have been checked for their accuracy and truth.

    Now look at Paul. He was a chief, if not the chief, antagonist of the Church in its very beginnings. The High Priest (the top ecclesiastical man in the Judaic nation) had personally given Paul the responsibility for exterminating the Christian church. And Paul went about his task, according to his own words, with fanatic zeal. He could appropriately be called the Adolf Eichmann of his day in his effort to overthrow the Church.

    In that first period, before Paul’s conversion, there was no one more convinced of the non-resurrection of Christ than he. No one was more determined to disprove it. Paul also had many of the elders in the Jewish nation behind him. All of them had “theological” arguments against Christ’s resurrection. The practical and logical evidences did not shake their “theological” minds.

    At first, Paul was vehemently against the practical evidence. His mind was closed to any acceptance of it. He must have used every intellectual argument to dispute the possibility of the resurrection which thousands of humble, practical-minded Christians were accepting.

    Yet, what was the final belief of Paul? This is where he becomes a vital witness to the truth of the resurrection miracle and the divinity of Christ.

    Paul, according to his own later testimony, while on the road to Damascus with authority from the High Priest to apprehend Christians, had his mind changed. It was a miracle that did it, but in a single day, this man of lofty intellect came to believe the practical evidence. And when the practical side became evident, his well-trained mind finally came to accept the abundant “intellectual” proofs found in the Old Testament.

    From that day forward, Paul never turned back. Until the day he was executed for his beliefs, he steadfastly maintained his faith in Christ and the reality of Christ’s resurrection. Although it took a miracle to open his eyes, Paul finally became its chief exponent and propagator.

    With Paul’s uncompromising acceptance, the proof of the resurrection becomes overwhelming. Here was a man who understood Judaic theology thoroughly. And not only was he trained in Judaism, but being born and reared in Tarsus of Asia Minor, the center of Stoic philosophy, he was well acquainted with the classical works of Gentiles. With the world’s knowledge in his mind—and most of it would have been very critical knowledge—he would have been one of the most unlikely persons to accept the resurrection of Christ. Yet he did accept the practical and intellectual proofs of this greatest of miracles.

    He became so fervent in this belief that it was said he “turned the world upside down” (Acts 17:6). Everyone who came in contact with Paul was certainly assured that he was convinced of this major proof of Christianity. Because of Paul’s firm conviction and that of the other apostles, the Roman world became convinced of the legitimacy of Christ’s resurrection in a short three hundred years.

    Surely, all this provable history demonstrates that the evidence unanimously supports the fact of Christ’s resurrection. No wonder Christ gave the resurrection sign as a major sign to the world that He was the Messiah. This is the one event that is so provable, by all human standards, that it takes little faith to believe it.
    What This Means Towards Proving the Bible

    The foregoing evidence of Christ’s resurrection proves that Christ must have been representative of a power that we can only call the God of the Universe. He must have been divine. Once forced to that conclusion, we are also constrained, by sheer reason, to accept the validity of Christ’s statements.

    Thus, when Christ defined for us that the Old Testament was composed of the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms (Luke 24:44), His definition must be accepted. This is the exact division of the Old Testament that the Jews today accept as their official Scriptures. This means the Book of Esther (which many want to reject today) must be an inspired work because it occurs inside that Tripartite Division sanctioned by Christ. Esther is as inspired as Genesis or Isaiah.

    Once Christ has been proved, then Joshua’s long day, the opening of the Red Sea and the creation of man must all be reckoned as having actually occurred. All of these events are in the Old Testament can
    on that Christ said was “the Scriptures” in Luke 24:45. All the books of that canon must be acknowledged as truthful once Christ has been proved.

    Also, the twenty-seven books of the New Testament which witness to the truth of Christ’s resurrection must be acknowledged as containing essential truths.

    The evidence of Christ and his divinity is not the only proof of the Bible, but it is the essential part.


    The Holy Bible is the word of God with supporting materials or letters that admit they are opinions

    #291146
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Quote (Wakeup @ April 09 2012,18:29)

    Quote (bodhitharta @ April 09 2012,13:46)

    Quote (Devolution @ April 09 2012,12:18)

    Quote (bodhitharta @ April 07 2012,15:18)
    The point I have been making the entire time on this site is that God Almighty makes all final decisions about everything and it is the Mercy and Compassion of God that is above all it is because of God Almighty that Jesus was sent:

    O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not “Trinity” : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
    (  سورة النساء  , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #171)

    It seems to me you have a good footing but certain words you cling to that if you understood them more you would see more clearly. For instance you said God Almighty made Jesus a God and you found that to be unique but God told Moses

    Exodus 7:1
    And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

    Certain usage of words then were very metaphorical which can be confusing the Quran was sent dow to make things clear. For instance for you to believe that Jesus is an actual God would mean 1. you believe in 2 Gods (A violation) 2. You disbelieve Jesus when he says John 17:3
    And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

    If there is only one TRUE GOD then Jesus cannot be a god literally


    Hi Bodhitharta,

    Whilst i await your reply concerning why Jesus was sent to the Jews first, i would like to address your other post below whilst i wait….

    Quote
    The point I have been making the entire time on this site is that God Almighty makes all final decisions about everything and it is the Mercy and Compassion of God that is above all it is because of God Almighty that Jesus was sent:

    Yes this is true. It is the Father who is the source of all things. And His Son Jesus did & said everything that His Father told Him to do & say, & He was fully obedient even to the death

    Quote
    O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not “Trinity” : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
    (  سورة النساء  , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #171)

    Actually, Jesus was much more than just an Apostle when He walked this earth.

    He was also:

    “that Prophet”, (Deuteronomy 18:15-19 & John 1:20-25 & Acts 3:20-24 & Luke 13:33 & John 1:45 & John 6:14),

    “The 2nd Adam”, (1 Corinthians 15:45 – 15:47),

    “The Branch”, (Isaiah 11:1 & Jeremiah 33:15 & Zechariah 3:8 & Zechariah 6:12) ,

    “The Lamb of God”, (Genesis 3:15 & Isaiah 53:7 & John 1:29 & John 1:36 & Acts 8:32 & 1 Peter 1:19 & Revelation 5:6)

    “The High Priest”, (Hebrews 2:17 & Hebrews 3:1 & Hebrews 4:14-15 & Hebrews chapters 5 through to ch10)

    “The Prince of Peace”, (Isaiah 9:7 & Zechariah 6:13 & Ephesians 2:14 & 2 Thessalonians 3:16 & Hebrews 7:2 etc)

    “The King of Israel”, Luke 19:38 & Matthew 27:11 & Matthew 27:37 etc)

    “The Stone that the builders refused”, (Psalm 118:22, Isaiah 8:14 & Isaiah 28:16 & Daniel 2:34 & Zechariah 3:8-10 & Matthew 21:42-44 & Mark 12:10 etc),

    “The Testator of the New Covenant”, (Hebrews ch 9)

    “The Son of God”,  (Many scriptures)

    The Word of God,  (As you admit also)

    Quote
    It seems to me you have a good footing but certain words you cling to that if you understood them more you would see more clearly. For instance you said God Almighty made Jesus a God and you found that to be unique but God told Moses

    Exodus 7:1
    And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

    If you look closely at what God actually said, it is not the same circumstances nor meaning that is applied to Jesus. God was specific concerning to whom Moses would be god to….to Pharaoh…God was doing the miracles, not Moses. God never ordained Moses as a god, but that Moses would be as god to Pharaoh is what is meant.

    Quote
    Certain usage of words then were very metaphorical which can be confusing the Quran was sent dow to make things clear. For instance for you to believe that Jesus is an actual God would mean 1. you believe in 2 Gods (A violation) 2. You disbelieve Jesus when he says John 17:3
    And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

    If there is only one TRUE GOD then Jesus cannot be a god literally

    There is One God. Jesus is the Word of God, you do not yet understand the implications of that. Jesus was crowned as God by God, and granted to have life within Himself just as His Father does.

    You have your own word, i have my own word, we control our word…it does not control us. God has a word too, and he created all things by His word, but His word is not like our word, for His word is living and obeys His will, and it is from this inexhaustible indwelling word of His from which He made His Son. He could have made a million “pure” sons if He wanted.

    And though Jesus is an “individual”, He always obeys His Father, for He is the Word of God, and speaks and acts on behalf of His God/Father as
    though He were his Father…for He is the Word of God…the express image of God
    And God is always in control of His word, just as we are in control of our own word.
    And since God is in control of His word which He made into a being…into His Son…
    Then there is still but One God…

    So John 17:3 is upheld.
    It is in harmony.
    God can make other Gods if He so chooses…
    That would not change John 17:3 at all.
    Because none of those Gods would be in existence without first being made Gods by God.

    So then, is there any other God beside God that came into being without God doing it?
    NO…
    Then there is still but One God then isn't there.

    This is part of the mystery of the Word.
    But only God can make man understand this piece of the puzzle…

    Luke 10:22
       All things are delivered to Me of My Father, and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father, and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal Him.


    There are no other gods!

    Isaiah 46:9
    Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

    Notice the word “NONE”

    Also you don't realize that what you read about Jesus being called God was a quote fro a King being called God:

    Psalm 45:5-7

    King James Version (KJV)

    5Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee.

    6Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

    7Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

    So Paul was just quoting this scripture

    Hebrews 1:8-9
    But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

    9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

    But the Psalmist wasn't talking about Jesus

    Psalm 45:7-9

    7Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

    8All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad.

    9Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir.

    Most likely this was about Solomon who was also called God's son. Do you not understand that God's “son” is the anointed righteous servant whomever he is?

    Luke 10:22
    All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

    An apostle is a (religious) messenger and ambassador. This is what Jesus said that he was sent by God

    There is ONLY ONE GOD HE IS THE SELF SUFFICIENT ONE


    Bodhitharta.

    There are three that bear record in heaven:
    The father ;the Word; and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one.(One God)(1john5:7).

    You; and your word; and your spirit; bear record of you.
    ( one you).(not three yous).

    You are always in charge of your word,not your word in charge of you. your word alone can not do anything by him self. I say him;because one must respect our own word: And so does God,respect his own word.

    I hope this will make it clear.

    Hi Bodhitharta, you are –defending a doctrine– that has been given to you by man.

    I am not defending any doctrine that has been concocted by man;  I go straight to scripture,genuinely seeking the truth,and I let the Holy spirit teach me.

    I am defending the truth; for the truth will set one free.

    You have a nice day.

    wakeup.

    This is how you are made in the image of God; You love you hate you,you create, you discuss, you know what is good and what is bad,you make plans,etc.

    Animals do not have those qualities.

    wakeup.


    1john5:7 was added to the Bible ask ED if you don't believe me or for that matter ask any Christian who studies. It was added to the Bible does that mean anything to you?

    #291149
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Hi bodhithara.

    O k so ! john 5:7 is added on by man.
    but it still is in harmony with the whole picture.
    I can see that you have read the bible ,but not studied the bible.christians also they only read,but failed to seek.

    Wakeup.

    #291156
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Quote (Devolution @ April 09 2012,22:50)
    Hi Bodhitharta,

    Most likely this is about Solomon?
    We can not go by most likely's, we only are permitted to comment on what we are sure of.

    And Davids psalms are not from David's imaginings alone, these are inspired by God, so it is God who speaks through David, this is how we find prophecies in the scriptures…when God speaks through His
    chosen vessels…men do not prophecy by their own power, they either prophecy from God or from evil supernatural force of the Devil…

    Look at verse 2.
    The word through David declares that God has blessed this person for ever.
    So David knows this.
    Since David knows this, remember when David was old, he counseled Solomon and told him not to stray from the Lord lest bad things come about and Solomon is cast away by God…and not only then, but many times throughout Solomons upbringing…why would David say this if he knew that Solomon would be blessed forever?

    He said this because he did not know what manner of man Solomon would eventually become…only God knows this.
    Yet David knew the outcome for this other individual with all surety…blessed forever!!
    So this can not be speaking of a mere man…nor of Solomon.

    Verse 6
    Mans thrones are not for ever and ever.
    This cancels out any human king, be it David or Solomon etc.
    Don't you know that Solomon had the 10 tribes ripped from his rule by God?
    And God Himself says that for Davids sake, after David was dead, that He will have mercy on Solomon, for God knew that Solomon would sin against Him…thus Solomons scepter became a broken scepter in the end, ruling over only two tribes and not 12.
    But this other one, has an eternal scepter.
    Eternal meaning staying in the same condition forever.
    Solomons scepter did not…
    Not only that…men die.
    Men can not have eternal sceptres.

    still on verse 6
    Only One has an eternal throne.
    This identifies the source which leads to the revealing through linked prophecies to whom really is spoken about.
    Again, the sceptre is mentioned, the sceptre of his kingdom, a right sceptre, but Solomon, like David did also, sinned against the Lord staining that sceptre.
    This other one's sceptre always stays right.
    So this can not be about mere a man either.

    So since His throne is eternal…then this God is a God being spoken of.
    Not a man.
    Where in scripture does it say kings are titled God by God?
    It does not.
    It is not allowed by God…

    Which makes verse 7 clear.
    Jesus was appointed God by God.
    No other had this privilege nor ever will.
    And Jesus was not God when Jesus was a man…but after he was resurrected and changed into a Spirit…this is when He became crowned as God…God Himself crowned Jesus God.
    And when He returns, He will return as King to claim His kingdom and subdue the world and bring about peace under His rule…

    God's Anointed ones are not called sons of God by title.
    Your scripture please?
    Anointed means put in place by the one anointing.

    Nevertheless, we are all called sons of God if we obey Him.
    But there is only One Son of God.
    God is very clear on this.
    Angels are also called sons of God.
    But these also are not The Son of God.

    If you wish to use this argument about being sons of God
    you have to first believe it Boditharta…
    then you need to be honest…
    Really really honest and honorable…

    The Quaran says Allah declares that mankind are not sons of his..that he has no sons…but we are instead all slaves…This is declared in three separate scriptures by Allah and contradicts what the God of the bible says and has said for thousands of years before Islam came into existence.

    Do you go against this declaration?
    I ask because it is important, i ask not mockingly.
    Because if not, then your arguing this case is actually coming from a untruthful place…or a confused place, confused as in you have not made up your mind to believe Allah on this or believe Jehovah.
    Which would explain why you do not seem able, or willing to understand the difference between “sons” and “The Son”.
    Again i do not mock, but speak my truthful observation.

    And if you do not agree with Allah's declaration…
    Then you have to choose who is right…
    God of the bible, or God of the quaran.
    It is as simple as that…
    For they speak different things.
    Any one can see that clearly when looking into it honestly.

    Also, you have to decide who is more reliable concerning the written word of the new testament…which is all complemented by the old testament.
    Those who were there with Jesus and were taught by Him and witnessed Him and were of His countrymen..
    He who was spoken about by the old prophets who declared that he would be rejected by the Jews and killed…
    Or a man who came 600 years later who never saw Jesus, nor was taught by Him, nor was of his countryman…nor was spoken of by God as saying another prophet would arise…
    God said that the scriptures were complete.

    Or believe that one who came 600 years later who said that scripture was not indeed complete…thus contradicting God and Jesus and the Apostles and the Prophets of old.

    Otherwise, our debating is not for the truth of the written word, but an attempt to do otherwise to its credibility for the reason of steering away and into another interpretation of things.
    And this angle will never bear fruit and we will just argue perpetually back and forth.
    I am not interested in that.

    So all it comes down to is this…
    Choose who you follow…
    The word of God or the word of Mohammad.
    Then we can truly talk.

    You can not have both.
    Both words are completely opposite of the other.

    Thank you.


    Luke 1:32
    He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

    Notice in this verse David is the “Father of Jesus” and Jesus will be given the throne of David. How many Fathers does Jesus have? Maybe you will start seeing the point that these words “Father” and “Son” are not literal otherwise David is the Father of Jesus

    Romans 1:3
    Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

    Nw why does Jesus even dispute being called son of David although the scriptures say he is the son of David?

    Matthew 22:42-43

    King James Version (KJV)

    42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.

    43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

    The psalm I quoted s clearly written about a king of that day either David or Solomon. Jesus is receiving the throne of David so David's throne has been established forever.

    Quote
    Which makes verse 7 clear.
    Jesus was appointed God by God.
    No other had this privilege nor ever will.

    I just showed you thepsalm that was written hundreds of years before Jesus was alive so at the time it was written who do you think the writer was referring to since he was not speaking in a future sense, he was talking in present context.

    Do you realize when you put capital letters “Son” It doesn't exist in that language so “son” would read as “son” no matter the reference?

    I don't mind anyone being called son of God or calling God Father the issue is the misunderstan
    ding of the usage of words do you know someplaces in the Bible that call Jesus son in other bibles it will say servant in the same place.

    Acts 3:13

    King James Version (KJV)
    13The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

    Acts 3:13

    New King James Version (NKJV)
    13 The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go.

    I can show you more as well so if you were right wouldn't “son” mean “son”? How could it be replaced by servant if it meant literal son? You only continue to believe the way you do because you invested your mind in the belief to be honest you will have to face the truth. God does not have literal children he is our God not a man with a gender and reproductive organs. He Creates

    Quote
    The Quaran says Allah declares that mankind are not sons of his..that he has no sons…but we are instead all slaves…This is declared in three separate scriptures by Allah and contradicts what the God of the bible says and has said for thousands of years before Islam came into existence.

    Your bible agrees my friend although it is not written in the Quran as slaves but thebible does say it that way

    Romans 6:22
    But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

    Say: Shall I give you glad tidings of things Far better than those? For the righteous are Gardens in nearness to their Lord, with rivers flowing beneath; therein is their eternal home; with companions pure (and holy); and the good pleasure of allah. For in allah.s sight are (all) His servants,-
    ( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #15)

    So if they dispute with thee, say: “I have submitted My whole self to allah and so have those who follow me.” And say to the People of the Book and to those who are unlearned: “Do ye (also) submit yourselves?” If they do, they are in right guidance, but if they turn back, Thy duty is to convey the Message; and in allah.s sight are (all) His servants.
    ( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #20)

    There is no God of the Bible and God of the Quran there is only ONE GOD who is GOD OVER ALL. I am sharing with you the clear truth.

    Everytime you said “Allah” said I show it to you in your own bible then you turn away in disbelief how is that possible? It's like ED talking about multiple wives when you will find the most cases in the Bible and not only that God saying he would have given David even more wives if he asked.

    Everytime you think it is another God I show you in your own Bible and you turn away in disbelief you say Muslims are violent I point out that Christians are violent you say they are not Christians I show you that your own bible says:

    Exodus 15:3

    Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

    3 Jehovah [is] a man of battle; Jehovah [is] His name.

    You look and see it then turn away in disbelief but if it says Allah you say that Allah is wrong you are back biting the very God you believe in, You say God can sacrifice anyone he wants although he said it Never even came to His mind and that sacrificing your children is an abomination but you look and turn your head in disbelief.

    I have shown you where blood atonement is not needed but you look and turn your head in disbelief even though it's in your own bible. So you have a personal view and that view simply negates what it doesn't like.

    I actually study and when I comprehend something I accept it, If I see everybody being called sons of God all over the place some even being called the Firstborn of God I start seeing that this is not literal because if it is there is a serious problem

    “For I am a Father to Israel, And Ephraim is My firstborn.”

    How can Ephraim be God's firstborn if Jesus is his only “Son”?

    But wait : ” ‘Thus says the LORD: “Israel is My son, My firstborn”

    So Now Israel and Ephraim are the firstborn of God? You need to understand what's going on here and break out of preconceived ideas.

    David was also called “begotten”

    Psalm 2:7
    “I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.

    as matter of fact check this out Paul says:

    1 Corinthians 4:15
    For though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

    Philemon 1:10
    I appeal to you for my son Onesimus, whom I have begotten while in my chains,

    So Paul has declared himself “Father” although Jesus said

    Matthew 23:9
    And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

    You see how the Bible exposes its own flaws that is How God protects his Word and Truth but most don't know

    #291237
    journey42
    Participant

    Quote (bodhitharta @ April 10 2012,02:45)
    This was quite a piece of work but it doesn't sound quite right according to Jesus:

    Matthew 16:27
    For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

    When Jesus comes that is it, Matthew 16:27 is talking about Judgement it says “EVERY MAN” no seperation there. Your conclusion depends on odd interpretations what Jesus said was clear.


    Hi

    My interpretation depends on what is written. You can't just take a verse and say this is how it is going to be. No you have to line up all the verses and take the whole word of God into consideration. A little here, a little there. Connect the scriptures.

    God is spirit and his Word is spirit. You are looking at a verse, and without understanding, claiming this is the way it will be, without looking at the other verses. The Word of God does not work like that my friend. We have to search, dig deeper otherwise we will get stuck. We can't just pick out the scriptures we like, and ignore the rest.

    When Jesus comes, he definitely will reward every man according to his works.
    There are events that lead up to Christ's second coming. In detail. They are in the old testament, and new.

    Jesus will judge at his return, and the saints are the only ones who receive their reward first. The rest of the world have been judged also, but their sentence, or reward will not be handed out until the appointed time,…..until after the thousand years.

    You see, It doesn't all end when Christ returns. For he has a job to do. God has entrusted him and made him worthy to carry out his purpose, and that is to rule in Jerusalem and upon the whole earth in righteousness as King, so the future people not born yet, will also get a chance to learn the truth. And the final judgement will take place all at once, when all is fulfilled.

    There are still good people in this world, only they do not know their God and God sees into the heart. These very evil ones will be destroyed at his coming, for the sake of those who will be redeemed. This is a God of fairness, and mercy my friend. It is not just black and white. You cannot put God into a box. He is righteous and his judgements righteous. He knows all things, and all things work according to his purpose, and we know his will according to his Word.

    #291253
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (bodhitharta @ April 10 2012,02:45)

    Quote (journey42 @ April 10 2012,00:01)

    Quote (bodhitharta @ April 09 2012,09:46)
    If Jesus died foryour sins why then will you be judged according to your works?

    Revelation 20:12
    And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.


    Hi

    There are two resurrections.

    The first Ressurection
    1 Thess 4:14   For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    1 Thess 4:16   For the Lord shall himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first.
    1 Thess 4:17   Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    NOTE:  This FIRST resurrection, only involves those who existed from Christ onwards, and does not include those who were before Christ. the dead in Christ shall rise first

    There is a 1000 year gap now till the 2nd resurrection
    At Christ's 2nd coming, Satan will be chained in the bottomless pit for a thousand years.

    Rev 20:2   And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him a thousand years  
    Rev 20:3   And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should decieve the nations no more till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season

    Rev 20:5   But the rest of the dead lived not again until the 1000 years were finished…..

    During this time, Christ sets up his Kingdom in Jerusalem, and rules with the saints.  He will raise up the house of Israel (only the ones according to Gods choosing, the reserved) and bring them back IN THE FLESH to live in the kingdom and learn the new covenant (Christ).
    (Ezekiel ch 37-Israel brought to life in the flesh)
    but they will still die of old age. 

    Isaiah 65:20   There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

    They must learn the new covenant, because no man can enter unless he now go through Christ.  And this applies to them before Christ as well.
    John 14:6   Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    There are also surviving nations outside the kingdom, and the knowledge of the Lord will spread throughout the earth and the people will learn and get given a chance to repent and honour the King of Kings, Jesus Christ who is ruling from Jerusalem (not heaven)

    This is how the Jews will be provoked to jealousy.  The gentiles get raised FIRST, to spirit, and the surviving Jews who God was not pleased with will live outside the kingdom, whilst their accepted brethren live inside the kingdom.

    WHEN THE THOUSAND YEARS ARE EXPIRED
    Rev 20:7  When the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison. (Ezekiel ch 38 & 39 – Gog & Magog)

    Rev 20:8   And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle:  the number of whom is as the sand of the sea (Israelites who have multiplied now in the kingdom)

    But fire comes down from heaven, from God and destroys Sastan and his armies.

    NOW The second resurrection
    This judgement is for all those who did not make it into the first resurrection.  This judgement are for all those who existed before Christ, and those who existed after Christ and did not know him for many reasons, e.g., religion, custom.
    God is very fair.  He looks straight into the heart.  These people will be judged according to their deeds.  If their deeds were mainly good, and they had love in their heart, then they will be accepted.  Those who God judges evil will be thrown into the lake of fire for the sake of the good.

    So now I hope this answers your question to make it more clear for you.  TWO SEPERATE judgements.  One at Christ's return, and the second after the thousand years.  

    The saints will not be judged according to their works, because their works were righteous and acceptable before the Lord, because they obeyed the Word, and righteousness is in that Word,
    ….and because they accepted that mercy offered,  repented, and followed the lamb, Jesus Christ.


    This was quite a piece of work but it doesn't sound quite right according to Jesus:

    Matthew 16:27
    For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

    When Jesus comes that is it, Matthew 16:27 is talking about Judgement it says “EVERY MAN” no seperation there. Your conclusion depends on odd interpretations what Jesus said was clear.


    Bodhitharta.

    Jesus will reward every man that deserves his reward only; he will not reward the blasphemer,we can understand that.

    At his coming; only the true believers will be resurected in spirit,not all believers that are luke warm,with one foot in babylon and the other foot in Zion.

    The luke warm christians will have to go through the fire, (the tribulation). and if they have made the right choice,by not receiving the mark of the beast, they will be given white robes.
    REv.7:13.14.

    All the nations from past present and future, of all religions will be resurected in the flesh in the second resurection; that is 1000yrs later,they will be judged according to their works.

    The sheep set on the right and the goats on the left.
    This will happen after Gog and magog.
    Gog and his armies will surround the peaceful camp of the saints to take spoils, and God himself will destroy them.(rev.20.)God is bringing all the goats and gog into one place to be destroyed.

    This is not just an opinion; but this picture will immerge if the scriptures are put together in harmony,there can not be any contradictions.

    Personal opinions is worth nothing.The truth can not be compromised.

    wakeup.

    #291282
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (bodhitharta @ April 10 2012,02:50)
    1john5:7 was added to the Bible ask ED if you don't believe me or for that matter ask any Christian who studies. It was added to the Bible does that mean anything to you?


    Hi BD,

    Thanks for pointing to me as honest, even though
    YOU continually call me dishonest in all YOUR threads.
    I guess that's just part of being a deceptive muslim, right?

    That added verse doesn't nullify the fact that YHVH's existence
    has been encoded into the “AKJV Bible”, now does it? Certainly Not!

    B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
    עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)
    (LINK to the thread THAT PROVES GOD’s EXISTENCE)

    #291328
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Quote (journey42 @ April 10 2012,11:02)

    Quote (bodhitharta @ April 10 2012,02:45)
    This was quite a piece of work but it doesn't sound quite right according to Jesus:

    Matthew 16:27
    For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

    When Jesus comes that is it, Matthew 16:27 is talking about Judgement it says “EVERY MAN” no seperation there. Your conclusion depends on odd interpretations what Jesus said was clear.


    Hi

    My interpretation depends on what is written.  You can't just take a verse and say this is how it is going to be.  No you have to line up all the verses and take the whole word of God into consideration.  A little here, a little there.  Connect the scriptures.

    God is spirit and his Word is spirit.  You are looking at a verse, and without understanding, claiming this is the way it will be, without looking at the other verses.  The Word of God does not work like that my friend.  We have to search, dig deeper otherwise we will get stuck.  We can't just pick out the scriptures we like, and ignore the rest.

    When Jesus comes, he definitely will reward every man according to his works.
    There are events that lead up to Christ's second coming.  In detail.  They are in the old testament, and new.

    Jesus will judge at his return, and the saints are the only ones who receive their reward first.  The rest of the world have been judged also, but their sentence, or reward will not be handed out until the appointed time,…..until after the thousand years.  

    You see, It doesn't all end when Christ returns.  For he has a job to do.  God has entrusted him and made him worthy to carry out his purpose, and that is to rule in Jerusalem and upon the whole earth in righteousness as King, so the future people not born yet, will also get a chance to learn the truth.  And the final judgement will take place all at once, when all is fulfilled.

    There are still good people in this world, only they do not know their God and God sees into the heart.  These very evil ones will be destroyed at his coming, for the sake of those who will be redeemed.  This is a God of fairness, and mercy my friend.  It is not just black and white.  You cannot put God into a box.  He is righteous and his judgements righteous.  He knows all things, and all things work according to his purpose, and we know his will according to his Word.


    Matthew 16:27
    For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

    Are you telling me that this scripture is not 100% accurate?

    Quote
    This is a God of fairness, and mercy my friend. It is not just black and white. You cannot put God into a box.

    I agree with this statement but Ironically you are putting God in the box saying that He can't be called Allah, that He can't have a covenant with Muslims…etc. I on the other hand do not put God in a box I CLEARLY SEE God has made Covenants all through history some with Mankind and some with certain people or groups of people. Even their prohibitions have been different Noah wasn't told not to eat pork or certain foods, Adam and Eve weren't given meat for food, Abraham was given circumcision the gentiles covenant didn't include circumcision I could go through a list of Covenants God is ever active but most don't know.

    The Jews don't like the Covenant your under ut your covenant is still valid right? So what you don't like the Covenant that Muslims are under but how can you be so certain that they are not under a Covenant with God? I could see if you said I am not a part of that covenant or I don't understand that Covenant but you claim to know who has a covenant with God? That's silly isn't it?

    When you read about the massive violence, incredible polygamy, extreme punishments in the earlier books of the Bible you just turn away as if to disown God and History and claim that somehow God didn't mean for any of that to occur because your covenant doesn't allow for all the things allowed before

    #291341
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Bodhitharta.

    God made a covenant with israel his first born,but they have broken the covenant by worshipping other gods.

    Then God send his son to make a new covenant,but they(the jews) refused him and killed him,now the new covenant is made with all jews and gentiles. Who so ever accept Jesus as the saviuor,will be saved. We have not made any covenant with any one but with God and his son,the mediator between God and man,and that includes all that eccept him. (one mediator only).

    We all have a father and a mother,but when Jesus said call no man your father, he is speaking about a spiritual father.
    We all have one spiritual father.For we all came to being by him,he is creator of all.We are the CHILDREN of God for ever if we follow his commandments.We are the CHILDREN of the devil if we reject God.

    Why God also calls us slaves? Because we all must labour towards seeking righteousness. Then he will call us ,MY CHILDREN,come and inherit the kingdom,prepared for you.

    What you need to do is to compere Mohamads life and teachings; and Jesus life and his teachings.

    Jesus is sinless; and that you can not say about mohamad.
    Now which one would you rather follow?It is your own choice.
    Jesus only died on the cross,and was resurrected on the 3th day. As he is resurrected so will we be( he is the first fruit),if we follow HIS commandments.

    If some other teachings contradict Jesus teachings; which one would you follow. We are free to make a choice.

    Muslems have no prophet that speaks arabic,before mohamad. There are no muslems worshipping one God before mohamad.For they were worshipping many gods, after christs death.Mohamad brought them to worship one God,but only 1400yrs after Christ. There were none bowing to mecca to pray before mohamad,so the muslem religion is a new religion.

    Many new religions has come up after christ,we must be careful.

    Many false prophet will come in the last days and say that I am Christ,but deceiving the many.

    We must take heed; this is a warning by our Lord.
    we must take this warning seriously if we are serious about worshipping God.

    You take care bro,

    wakeup.

    #291344
    journey42
    Participant

    Hi Boditharta

    Quote (bodhitharta @ April 10 2012,18:22)
    The Jews don't like the Covenant your under ut your covenant is still valid right? So what you don't like the Covenant that Muslims are under but how can you be so certain that they are not under a Covenant with God? I could see if you said I am not a part of that covenant or I don't understand that Covenant but you claim to know who has a covenant with God? That's silly isn't it?

    When you read about the massive violence, incredible polygamy, extreme punishments in the earlier books of the Bible you just turn away as if to disown God and History and claim that somehow God didn't mean for any of that to occur because your covenant doesn't allow for all the things allowed before

    The covenants are written in the bible.  I don't think it's silly. We have to discern which OT covenant God is referring to in the NT.

    Quote
    I agree with this statement but Ironically you are putting God in the box saying that He can't be called Allah, that He can't have a covenant with Muslims…etc.

    Did I say that exactly?  I did not mean you personally cannot put God in a box, but many do. God is not black and white. There are shades of Grey, because he has mercy.  Even some christians put God in a box, for they preach that anyone that is not a christian will be damned, and thrown into hell which is not true.

    God has many names, Father of Lights, I am, Everlasting Father, Almighty Father, Alpha and the Omega, The Holy one of Israel, ….and to clarify things, Jesus told us how to pray, and always referred to God as the Father.

    Our Father, who art in heaven…..
    I have never read God being called Allah in the holy bible, and don't really know what that name means?  maybe you can tell me.

    Quote
    That He can't have a covenant with Muslims…etc.


    I haven't read anywhere indicating God having a covenant with muslims.  A covenant is an agreement, and yes there were a few.  But we are talking about covenants mentioned in the bible. The covenants were made to Noah, the earth (rainbow), then to Abraham, and then the Hebrews.

    Quote
    I on the other hand do not put God in a box I CLEARLY SEE God has made Covenants all through history some with Mankind and some with certain people or groups of people. Even their prohibitions have been different Noah wasn't told not to eat pork or certain foods, Adam and Eve weren't given meat for food, Abraham was given circumcision the gentiles covenant didn't include circumcision I could go through a list of Covenants God is ever active but most don't know.

    Yes there were a quite a few covenants.  Here are some.
    TO NOAH
    Genesis 6:18   But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.

    TO THE EARTH
    Genesis 9:13   I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth

    THE SAME COVENANT TO ALL FLESH
    Genesis 9:16   And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

    TO ABRAHAM
    Genesis 17:7   And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

    A COVENANT THAT THEY BE CIRCUMSIZED
    Genesis 17:10   This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

    THE COVENANT TO GIVE THE HEBREWS THE LAND OF CANAN
    Exodus 6:4   And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.

    COVENANT TO THE HEBREWS FOR THEM TO BE A TREASURE ABOVE ALL PEOPLE
    Exodus 19:5   Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

    So What covenant is the NT referring to? Can you tell me?

    Heres the mention of “THE COVENANT” in the NT
    Hebrews 8:9   Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
    Hebrews 8:10   For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

    What covenant was made to their fathers the DAY he led them out of Egypt?

    The old covenant was to follow the Law.  Now the new covenant is different, the law will be written on their hearts. We know this has not happened to Israel, even to this day, so this prophesy is future for them.  You will have to read Ezekiel ch 37 to get a better understanding of this, when Israel will be raised in the flesh, brought back to life and gathered into the kingdom in Jerusalem. (future)

    Hebrews 8:13   In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
    Hebrews 12:24   And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

    So the new covenant is Christ. And that covenant will be established with them at the 2nd coming of Christ.

    #291347
    journey42
    Participant

    journey42,April wrote:

    [/quote]
    Hi Boditharta

    Quote
    Matthew 16:27
    For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

    Quote
    Are you telling me that this scripture is not 100% accurate?

    This scripture is accurate.
    Jesus does bring judgement on his return but it is not “the final judgement” that you are getting confused with,  for if it were, it would contradict the other scriptures in Revelations concerning the end times, backed up with OT prophesies.  
    I showed you the scripture of Satan being bound for a thousand years in the bottomless pit,
    then Christ and his saints will rule for a thousand years,
    rule who? there are survivors
    then when the thousand years are expired,
    Satan will be released from his prison (God & Magog),
    and will gather the armies to surround the holy camp
    you must find out what this holy camp is.
    then Satan destroyed
    then the final judgement.
    In this order  
    You cannot ignore this.

    The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.  And how can anyone say that death is destroyed and thrown into the lake of fire at Christ's coming, when Christ will rule for a thousand years …with….his…saints.  So this final judgement happens after the thousand years.  Even christians don't understand this.  But I've shown you scripture, and not made up words of mine, but the Lords words.  And the mainstream christians don't like this because it contradicts their doctrine which says all unbelievers will be thrown into hell at Christ's second coming. And you are believing their doctrine and not looking at the scriptures for what it really reveals.

    This is the judgement of the earth.  Their reward.  This wicked kingdom, Babylon the great will be judged.  This system (kingdom) which is a spiritual wicked kingdom ruled by Satan.  Christ will never operate the same way that this kingdom has been run.  Many of the very wicked, and cruel people will die, but there will be survivors.

    Christ will judge the whore, Babylon the Great, the kingdoms of this world.

    Revelation 17:5   And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

    Revelation 18:4   And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

    Jeremiah 50:9   For, lo, I will raise and cause to come up against Babylon an assembly of great nations from the north country: and they shall set themselves in array against her; from thence she shall be taken: their arrows shall be as of a mighty expert man; none shall return in vain.

    Jeremiah 50:13   Because of the wrath of the LORD it shall not be inhabited, but it shall be wholly desolate: every one that goeth by Babylon shall be astonished, and hiss at all her plagues.

    Jeremiah 51:1   Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will raise up against Babylon, and against them that dwell in the midst of them that rise up against me, a destroying wind;

    Jeremiah 51:2   And will send unto Babylon fanners, that shall fan her, and shall empty her land: for in the day of trouble they shall be against her round about.

    Jeremiah 51:6   Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD'S vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence.

    Jeremiah 51:7   Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD'S hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.

    Jeremiah 51:8   Babylon is suddenly fallen and destroyed: howl for her; take balm for her pain, if so be she may be healed.

    Revelation 14:8   And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

    Revelation 16:19   And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

    Revelation 18:10   Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

    Revelation 18:21   And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

    Only those alive will suffer the plagues and wrath of God at Christ's coming, but the dead have to wait for the white throne judgement which is according to the books, and will happen when all is fulfilled, a thousand years later. Then the heavens and the earth will be melted, and a new era begins.

    #291349
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (bodhitharta @ April 10 2012,03:40)

    Quote (Devolution @ April 09 2012,22:50)
    Hi Bodhitharta,

    Most likely this is about Solomon?
    We can not go by most likely's, we only are permitted to comment on what we are sure of.

    And Davids psalms are not from David's imaginings alone, these are inspired by God, so it is God who speaks through David, this is how we find prophecies in the scriptures…when God speaks through His
    chosen vessels…men do not prophecy by their own power, they either prophecy from God or from evil supernatural force of the Devil…

    Look at verse 2.
    The word through David declares that God has blessed this person for ever.
    So David knows this.
    Since David knows this, remember when David was old, he counseled Solomon and told him not to stray from the Lord lest bad things come about and Solomon is cast away by God…and not only then, but many times throughout Solomons upbringing…why would David say this if he knew that Solomon would be blessed forever?

    He said this because he did not know what manner of man Solomon would eventually become…only God knows this.
    Yet David knew the outcome for this other individual with all surety…blessed forever!!
    So this can not be speaking of a mere man…nor of Solomon.

    Verse 6
    Mans thrones are not for ever and ever.
    This cancels out any human king, be it David or Solomon etc.
    Don't you know that Solomon had the 10 tribes ripped from his rule by God?
    And God Himself says that for Davids sake, after David was dead, that He will have mercy on Solomon, for God knew that Solomon would sin against Him…thus Solomons scepter became a broken scepter in the end, ruling over only two tribes and not 12.
    But this other one, has an eternal scepter.
    Eternal meaning staying in the same condition forever.
    Solomons scepter did not…
    Not only that…men die.
    Men can not have eternal sceptres.

    still on verse 6
    Only One has an eternal throne.
    This identifies the source which leads to the revealing through linked prophecies to whom really is spoken about.
    Again, the sceptre is mentioned, the sceptre of his kingdom, a right sceptre, but Solomon, like David did also, sinned against the Lord staining that sceptre.
    This other one's sceptre always stays right.
    So this can not be about mere a man either.

    So since His throne is eternal…then this God is a God being spoken of.
    Not a man.
    Where in scripture does it say kings are titled God by God?
    It does not.
    It is not allowed by God…

    Which makes verse 7 clear.
    Jesus was appointed God by God.
    No other had this privilege nor ever will.
    And Jesus was not God when Jesus was a man…but after he was resurrected and changed into a Spirit…this is when He became crowned as God…God Himself crowned Jesus God.
    And when He returns, He will return as King to claim His kingdom and subdue the world and bring about peace under His rule…

    God's Anointed ones are not called sons of God by title.
    Your scripture please?
    Anointed means put in place by the one anointing.

    Nevertheless, we are all called sons of God if we obey Him.
    But there is only One Son of God.
    God is very clear on this.
    Angels are also called sons of God.
    But these also are not The Son of God.

    If you wish to use this argument about being sons of God
    you have to first believe it Boditharta…
    then you need to be honest…
    Really really honest and honorable…

    The Quaran says Allah declares that mankind are not sons of his..that he has no sons…but we are instead all slaves…This is declared in three separate scriptures by Allah and contradicts what the God of the bible says and has said for thousands of years before Islam came into existence.

    Do you go against this declaration?
    I ask because it is important, i ask not mockingly.
    Because if not, then your arguing this case is actually coming from a untruthful place…or a confused place, confused as in you have not made up your mind to believe Allah on this or believe Jehovah.
    Which would explain why you do not seem able, or willing to understand the difference between “sons” and “The Son”.
    Again i do not mock, but speak my truthful observation.

    And if you do not agree with Allah's declaration…
    Then you have to choose who is right…
    God of the bible, or God of the quaran.
    It is as simple as that…
    For they speak different things.
    Any one can see that clearly when looking into it honestly.

    Also, you have to decide who is more reliable concerning the written word of the new testament…which is all complemented by the old testament.
    Those who were there with Jesus and were taught by Him and witnessed Him and were of His countrymen..
    He who was spoken about by the old prophets who declared that he would be rejected by the Jews and killed…
    Or a man who came 600 years later who never saw Jesus, nor was taught by Him, nor was of his countryman…nor was spoken of by God as saying another prophet would arise…
    God said that the scriptures were complete.

    Or believe that one who came 600 years later who said that scripture was not indeed complete…thus contradicting God and Jesus and the Apostles and the Prophets of old.

    Otherwise, our debating is not for the truth of the written word, but an attempt to do otherwise to its credibility for the reason of steering away and into another interpretation of things.
    And this angle will never bear fruit and we will just argue perpetually back and forth.
    I am not interested in that.

    So all it comes down to is this…
    Choose who you follow…
    The word of God or the word of Mohammad.
    Then we can truly talk.

    You can not have both.
    Both words are completely opposite of the other.

    Thank you.


    Luke 1:32
    He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

    Notice in this verse David is the “Father of Jesus” and Jesus will be given the throne of David. How many Fathers does Jesus have? Maybe you will start seeing the point that these words “Father” and “Son” are not literal otherwise David is the Father of Jesus

    Romans 1:3
    Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

    Nw why does Jesus even dispute being called son of David although the scriptures say he is the son of David?

    Matthew 22:42-43

    King James Version (KJV)

    42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.

    43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

    The psalm I quoted s clearly written about a king of that day either David or Solomon. Jesus is receiving the throne of David so David's throne has been established forever.

    Quote
    Which makes verse 7 clear.
    Jesus was appointed God by God.
    No other had this privilege nor ever will.

    I just showed you thepsalm that was written hundreds of years before Jesus was alive so at the time it was written who do you think the writer was referring to since he was not speaking in a future sense, he was talking in present context.

    Do you realize when you put capital letters “So
    n” It doesn't exist in that language so “son” would read as “son” no matter the reference?

    I don't mind anyone being called son of God or calling God Father the issue is the misunderstanding of the usage of words do you know someplaces in the Bible that call Jesus son in other bibles it will say servant in the same place.

    Acts 3:13

    King James Version (KJV)
    13The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

    Acts 3:13

    New King James Version (NKJV)
    13 The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go.

    I can show you more as well so if you were right wouldn't “son” mean “son”? How could it be replaced by servant if it meant literal son? You only continue to believe the way you do because you invested your mind in the belief to be honest you will have to face the truth. God does not have literal children he is our God not a man with a gender and reproductive organs. He Creates

    Quote
    The Quaran says Allah declares that mankind are not sons of his..that he has no sons…but we are instead all slaves…This is declared in three separate scriptures by Allah and contradicts what the God of the bible says and has said for thousands of years before Islam came into existence.

    Your bible agrees my friend although it is not written in the Quran as slaves but thebible does say it that way

    Romans 6:22
    But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

    Say: Shall I give you glad tidings of things Far better than those? For the righteous are Gardens in nearness to their Lord, with rivers flowing beneath; therein is their eternal home; with companions pure (and holy); and the good pleasure of allah. For in allah.s sight are (all) His servants,-  
    (  سورة آل عمران  , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #15)

    So if they dispute with thee, say: “I have submitted My whole self to allah and so have those who follow me.” And say to the People of the Book and to those who are unlearned: “Do ye (also) submit yourselves?” If they do, they are in right guidance, but if they turn back, Thy duty is to convey the Message; and in allah.s sight are (all) His servants.  
    (  سورة آل عمران  , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #20)

    There is no God of the Bible and God of the Quran there is only ONE GOD who is GOD OVER ALL. I am sharing with you the clear truth.

    Everytime you said “Allah” said I show it to you in your own bible then you turn away in disbelief how is that possible? It's like ED talking about multiple wives when you will find the most cases in the Bible and not only that God saying he would have given David even more wives if he asked.

    Everytime you think it is another God I show you in your own Bible and you turn away in disbelief you say Muslims are violent I point out that Christians are violent you say they are not Christians I show you that your own bible says:

    Exodus 15:3

    Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

    3 Jehovah [is] a man of battle; Jehovah [is] His name.

    You look and see it then turn away in disbelief but if it says Allah you say that Allah is wrong you are back biting the very God you believe in, You say God can sacrifice anyone he wants although he said it Never even came to His mind and that sacrificing your children is an abomination but you look and turn your head in disbelief.

    I have shown you where blood atonement is not needed but you look and turn your head in disbelief even though it's in your own bible. So you have a personal view and that view simply negates what it doesn't like.

    I actually study and when I comprehend something I accept it, If I see everybody being called sons of God all over the place some even being called the Firstborn of God I start seeing that this is not literal because if it is there is a serious problem

    “For I am a Father to Israel, And Ephraim is My firstborn.”

    How can Ephraim be God's firstborn if Jesus is his only “Son”?

    But wait : ” ‘Thus says the LORD: “Israel is My son, My firstborn”

    So Now Israel and Ephraim are the firstborn of God? You need to understand what's going on here and break out of preconceived ideas.

    David was also called “begotten”

    Psalm 2:7
    “I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.

    as matter of fact check this out Paul says:

    1 Corinthians 4:15
    For though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

    Philemon 1:10
    I appeal to you for my son Onesimus, whom I have begotten while in my chains,

    So Paul has declared himself “Father” although Jesus said

    Matthew 23:9
    And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

    You see how the Bible exposes its own flaws that is How God protects his Word and Truth but most don't know


    Hi Bodhitarta.

    Where does mohamad fit in all those scriptures you have quoted?

    Wakeup.

    #291350
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Quote (Wakeup @ April 10 2012,23:36)


    Quote
    Bodhitharta.

    God made a covenant with israel his first born,but they have broken the covenant by worshipping other gods.

    Then God send his son to make a new covenant,but they(the jews) refused him and killed him,now the new covenant is made with all jews and gentiles. Who so ever accept Jesus as the saviuor,will be saved. We have not made any covenant with any one but with God and his son,the mediator between God and man,and that includes all that eccept him. (one mediator only).

    First off if Israel is God's firstborn how can Ephraim be God's Firstborn especially when you believe that Jesus is the only one born of God? Second, do you think that Abraham was a Jew or a Christian? He was neither and Islam is the religion that follows the religion of Abraham

    And who turns away from the religion of abraham but such as debase their souls with folly? Him We chose and rendered pure in this world: And he will be in the Hereafter in the ranks of the Righteous.
    ( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #130)

    They say: “Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation).” Say thou: “Nay! (I would rather) the religion of abraham the True, and he joined not gods with Allah.”
    ( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #135)

    Say: “(Allah) speaketh the Truth: follow the religion of abraham, the sane in faith; he was not of the Pagans.”
    ( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #95)

    Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to Allah, does good, and follows the way of abraham the true in Faith? For Allah did take abraham for a friend.
    ( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #125)

    Quote
    We all have a father and a mother,but when Jesus said call no man your father, he is speaking about a spiritual father.
    We all have one spiritual father.For we all came to being by him,he is creator of all.We are the CHILDREN of God for ever if we follow his commandments.We are the CHILDREN of the devil if we reject God.

    Then why do you accept Paul calling himself the father of those who accepted “his” Gospel.

    2 Timothy 2:8
    Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

    1 Corinthians 4:15
    For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

    Quote
    Why God also calls us slaves? Because we all must labour towards seeking righteousness. Then he will call us ,MY CHILDREN,come and inherit the kingdom,prepared for you.

    So first you insult others for being called the slaves of God and then you exalt yourself as a slave of God?

    Quote
    What you need to do is to compere Mohamads life and teachings; and Jesus life and his teachings.

    No I shouldn't because Muhammad is like Moses not Jesus.

    Deuteronomy 18:18
    I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

    Quote
    Jesus is sinless; and that you can not say about mohamad.

    Wrong comparison. Is Moses sinless? But still you must know that being forgiven for sin makes a person sinless, right? Otherwise even your belief that Jesus died for your sins would be wrong because if Jesus died for your sins either you are sinless or your sins are still upon you leaving the sacrifice to be pointless.

    Quote
    Now which one would you rather follow?It is your own choice.
    Jesus only died on the cross,and was resurrected on the 3th day. As he is resurrected so will we be( he is the first fruit),if we follow HIS commandments.[Quote]

    Lazarus was raised from the dead before Jesus and Elijah ascended to heaven alive before Jesus so which was he first in?

    [Quote]If some other teachings contradict Jesus teachings; which one would you follow. We are free to make a choice.

    You assume that the one wriiten first would be the right one but isn't it more likely with all information the latest info is more accurate didn't einstein come after newton and galileo?

    Let me show you something you have never seen

    Deuteronomy 21:15-16

    King James Version (KJV)

    15If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated:

    16Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hath, that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn:

    Do you not know that this means that Ishmael was supposed to inherit the promise that was given to Isaac and God came through on that promise but guess what it was revealed afterwards.Ishmael was indeed the Firstborn

    Quote
    Muslems have no prophet that speaks arabic,before mohamad. There are no muslems worshipping one God before mohamad.For they were worshipping many gods, after christs death.Mohamad brought them to worship one God,but only 1400yrs after Christ. There were none bowing to mecca to pray before mohamad,so the muslem religion is a new religion.

    The Muslim religion is the religion of Abraham it is the religion of submission that Jesus also followed for he submitted himself to God even to the point of death

    Quote
    Many new religions has come up after christ,we must be careful.

    As I said it's not new it simply was reset by God because at the time of Muhammad Christians had already lost their way and Jews had already rejected the Messiah so who was going to spread the Gospel of the Kingdom of God when the Christians at that point started teaching God is 3 in 1, Mary is divine Jesus is God, Mary is the Mother of God and Queen of Heaven, the pr
    oliferation of Statues in the churches and objects of worship … etc. The Jews were not even speaking to the rest of the world inviting the world to know God as they were chosen to do so the message was gone, lost and so many people with no one to teach them about God and so God sent down the Quran. Muhammad destroyed all the countless Idols and converted Pagans truly this is th work of The Lord. All praises due to God.

    Quote
    Many false prophet will come in the last days and say that I am Christ,but deceiving the many.

    Exactly but you do not have that description in Muhammad

    Quote
    We must take heed; this is a warning by our Lord.
    we must take this warning seriously if we are serious about worshipping God.

    Yes, please take it seriously Muhammad was sent by God th the Quran for all mankind

    Quote
    You take care bro,

    God bless you!

    wakeup.

    #291468
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (journey42 @ April 11 2012,01:41)
    Hi Boditharta

    God is not black and white. There are shades of Grey, because he has mercy.  


    Shalom Journey42, Wakuup, and BD,
    God is not shades of gray neither!

     YHVH(63)  =  Color(63)

    B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
    עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)

    #291472
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (journey42 @ April 11 2012,01:41)
    Hi Boditharta

    God has many names, Father of Lights, I am, Everlasting Father, Almighty Father, Alpha and the Omega, The Holy one of Israel, ….and to clarify things, Jesus told us how to pray, and always referred to God as the Father.


    Shalom Journey42,

    FALSE; those are NOT names, but merely “titles”!

    B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
    עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)

    #291473
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (bodhitharta @ April 11 2012,04:40)
    And who turns away from the religion of abraham but such as debase their souls with folly? Him We chose and rendered pure in this world: And he will be in the Hereafter in the ranks of the Righteous.  
    (  سورة البقرة  , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #130)


    Hi BD,

    Who is 'we'? …does this 'al-Lah' of yours have a partner?

    B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
    עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)

    #291479
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (bodhitharta @ April 11 2012,04:40)
    No I shouldn't because Muhammad is like Moses not Jesus.

    Deuteronomy 18:18
    I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.


    Hi BD,

    Trying to force the bible to substantiate the 'book of fraud' WON'T WORK!
    No more Prophets were born once John started Baptizing at Jordan!

    (Luke 16:16) “The law and the prophets were until John:
    since that time the kingdom of God is preached”

    I've told you this in almost EVERY THREAD!

    B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
    עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)

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