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Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 27 2010,23:59) Pierre,
You could not be MORE mistaken when you say that the law was set to condemn us all. Sin condems us. The Torah is a teacher to guide us, it is a letter of love, and it is an expression of who our Father in heaven is. It also contains the covenent promises to His children! Yahushua Messiah is the Torah made flesh. To walk in Torah is to follow the Messiah and to love Him.
hi LaurelI can see you use many scriptures to say so much ,
it seems you do not mind to call Paul a liar??
any law written or not ,always tells you what you can do or not do ,and if you break that law, there are retributions,
wen Christ came he came with the grace of God for all men who is willing to accept it,
but if someone stays with the Jewish tradition or the teachings of the law and priesthood this is against God grace.
there is nothing that saves anyone.Pierre
P,
why do you sound so ignorant?
Where do i disagree with SHaul? He was a Torah observant follower of the Messiah. Grace was not invented by Constantine. Grace is mentioned more times in the TeNaK (old testament) than it is in the Brit Chodesh (renewed covenant writings/new testament)Abraham was under grace and he also practiced Torah as were many who came before the Messiah was born.
Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 27 2010,16:53) Hi Ed, just stopping in to see if we are all growing up, or just spinning the wheels?
Hi Laurel,The kids do seem to grow up very slowly, don't they?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Laurel @ Nov. 28 2010,00:38) P,
why do you sound so ignorant?
Where do i disagree with SHaul? He was a Torah observant follower of the Messiah. Grace was not invented by Constantine. Grace is mentioned more times in the TeNaK (old testament) than it is in the Brit Chodesh (renewed covenant writings/new testament)Abraham was under grace and he also practiced Torah as were many who came before the Messiah was born.
Laurelyou use a language that is new to me and is mixed with Hebrew
so you speak like a prophet what i cannot understand,
so you should tell me first what you want to get across to me ,,
i am sorry for my ignorance,
Pierre
Pierre,
There is a difference between the old covenant and the new just like there is a difference between the covenant with Abraham and the old. Each one serves a purpose for God. The law made people aware what God requires of his people but left them to strive to please him by human effort. The new gave God’s people the Spirit to live by and in living by it they satisfy his requirements in the law. To reject the power of God that acts through the Spirit and fall back on human effort is a sure way to disaster. Paul warns us against doing that. True believers are under the new covenant promised to the Jews and Gentiles in the Old Testament.
New and old wines hold the fact they are wine in common.
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 28 2010,04:02) Pierre, There is a difference between the old covenant and the new just like there is a difference between the covenant with Abraham and the old. Each one serves a purpose for God. The law made people aware what God requires of his people but left them to strive to please him by human effort. The new gave God’s people the Spirit to live by and in living by it they satisfy his requirements in the law. To reject the power of God that acts through the Spirit and fall back on human effort is a sure way to disaster. Paul warns us against doing that. True believers are under the new covenant promised to the Jews and Gentiles in the Old Testament.
New and old wines hold the fact they are wine in common.
Kerwini do not remember what i said about it
pierre
P,
First you accused me of calling Shaul a liar. Where?
Then you said the old wineskin was the old testament. Wrong.
Old and new wineskins relate to our bodies. As people new to the belief, the same belief delivered to the talmudim/the Messiah's taught ones (saints), we are supposed to die to the “old man” the sinful man, and we become a “new man” a man who has made his “wedding vow” to follow the Messiah and “keep the commands.” As the bride we follow our Master in Spirit and in truth. We remove the “leaven” from our lives which is the doctrines and traditions of men, and embrace a Torah observant lifestyle; Torah, which is the Word, and also the Word made flesh, our Master, Yahushua Messiah. We have become a new wineskin, and we can not keep our old ways else we will destroy ourselves.Making that commitment into the “renewed covenant” the covenant where the Torah is written in our hearts “to walk in it'” is a serious matter. When a person takes of the bread and the wine which is symbolic of the body and blood of the Messiah Yahushua, we make a vow to let Him lead us into righteousness. This should only be done after we have attended the Sabbath services week after week to “hear Mosheh” to learn why we need the Messiah in the first place! The Torah is our instructions for that righteousness and it is what the Messiah did. Yahushua Messiah was a living example of how we should walk in Torah, not as slaves in fear, but as free servants in love!
For Abraham was saved when he made the choice to follow YHWH ELohim, before he was circumcised in the flesh, his heart was circumcised. His heart was right. YHWH Elohim saw Abraham as righteous because his works did follow his belief. WHile Abraham was yet in the land of Ur which is in Babylon, YHWH ELohim extended His right Arm of Salvation (His Messiah) to Abraham. Abraham was under grace while yet in Babylon. YHWH ELohim is a Spirit. But can you imagine that YHWH ELohim “stooped” down to man's level and said, “Come with me to a place that you know not and i will make you a father of many gentiles.” Thus YHWH called Abram a new name, Abraham.
The new or renewed covenant promised to Abraham because Yisra'el (who wasn't even yet a nation or a thought in Abraham's mind) already existed in the heart of the All Mighty, as He forsaw that Yisra'el and the Messiah (Abraham's offspring through Isaac) would be a stiff necked rebellious house and would need His Salvation, His Son, His Anointed High Priest in the order of Malektzedek (Righteous Reign), Yahushua!So when the time was right, many many years after Abraham, after Ya'acob who YAH named Yisra'el (because he overcame with El), YHWH ELohim sent His Son to be the perfect Passover Lamb. When Yahushua was dead, they laid Him in a seplucher where His dead body remained for exactly three days and three nights, according to Scripture (according to Torah). He rose from the dead just before sundown of the weekly Sabbath, then on the first day of the week He ascended to His ABBA, was restored, then came back down to us to show us that He lived and so could we! Yahushua Moshiah fullfilled the First Fruits of Scripture (Torah).
Now where you see that Yahushua Messiah says that Mosheh (Moses) spoke of Him, the Messiah, do you know where?
Mosheh spoke of the Moshiach (Messiah) when he taught the children of Yisra'el to keep the Sabbaths and the Feasts. Without them we would never know the TRUE MESSIAH, and we would be left to guess and wonder who the true Messsiah is. We would think his name was Tammuz or Zeus, or Jesus. We could never know the true Jewish Messiah who came in His Father's name which is YHWH/Yahuweh. …. And she called His Name Yahushua for He (YHWH) shall save the people from their sins!
Our Master, the Moshiach, the Son of the living El was named YAHushua. In the Hebrew holy language, His name means YHWH is salvation! And if we open the door of our hearts to Him and let Him in, then we will be heirs of the covenant promise given to Abraham, the father of many gentiles!
Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 28 2010,12:20) P,
First you accused me of calling Shaul a liar. Where?
Then you said the old wineskin was the old testament. Wrong.
Old and new wineskins relate to our bodies. As people new to the belief, the same belief delivered to the talmudim/the Messiah's taught ones (saints), we are supposed to die to the “old man” the sinful man, and we become a “new man” a man who has made his “wedding vow” to follow the Messiah and “keep the commands.” As the bride we follow our Master in Spirit and in truth. We remove the “leaven” from our lives which is the doctrines and traditions of men, and embrace a Torah observant lifestyle; Torah, which is the Word, and also the Word made flesh, our Master, Yahushua Messiah. We have become a new wineskin, and we can not keep our old ways else we will destroy ourselves.Making that commitment into the “renewed covenant” the covenant where the Torah is written in our hearts “to walk in it'” is a serious matter. When a person takes of the bread and the wine which is symbolic of the body and blood of the Messiah Yahushua, we make a vow to let Him lead us into righteousness. This should only be done after we have attended the Sabbath services week after week to “hear Mosheh” to learn why we need the Messiah in the first place! The Torah is our instructions for that righteousness and it is what the Messiah did. Yahushua Messiah was a living example of how we should walk in Torah, not as slaves in fear, but as free servants in love!
For Abraham was saved when he made the choice to follow YHWH ELohim, before he was circumcised in the flesh, his heart was circumcised. His heart was right. YHWH Elohim saw Abraham as righteous because his works did follow his belief. WHile Abraham was yet in the land of Ur which is in Babylon, YHWH ELohim extended His right Arm of Salvation (His Messiah) to Abraham. Abraham was under grace while yet in Babylon. YHWH ELohim is a Spirit. But can you imagine that YHWH ELohim “stooped” down to man's level and said, “Come with me to a place that you know not and i will make you a father of many gentiles.” Thus YHWH called Abram a new name, Abraham.
The new or renewed covenant promised to Abraham because Yisra'el (who wasn't even yet a nation or a thought in Abraham's mind) already existed in the heart of the All Mighty, as He forsaw that Yisra'el and the Messiah (Abraham's offspring through Isaac) would be a stiff necked rebellious house and would need His Salvation, His Son, His Anointed High Priest in the order of Malektzedek (Righteous Reign), Yahushua!So when the time was right, many many years after Abraham, after Ya'acob who YAH named Yisra'el (because he overcame with El), YHWH ELohim sent His Son to be the perfect Passover Lamb. When Yahushua was dead, they laid Him in a seplucher where His dead body remained for exactly three days and three nights, according to Scripture (according to Torah). He rose from the dead just before sundown of the weekly Sabbath, then on the first day of the week He ascended to His ABBA, was restored, then came back down to us to show us that He lived and so could we! Yahushua Moshiah fullfilled the First Fruits of Scripture (Torah).
Now where you see that Yahushua Messiah says that Mosheh (Moses) spoke of Him, the Messiah, do you know where?
Mosheh spoke of the Moshiach (Messiah) when he taught the children of Yisra'el to keep the Sabbaths and the Feasts. Without them we would never know the TRUE MESSIAH, and we would be left to guess and wonder who the true Messsiah is. We would think his name was Tammuz or Zeus, or Jesus. We could never know the true Jewish Messiah who came in His Father's name which is YHWH/Yahuweh. …. And she called His Name Yahushua for He (YHWH) shall save the people from their sins!
Our Master, the Moshiach, the Son of the living El was named YAHushua. In the Hebrew holy language, His name means YHWH is salvation! And if we open the door of our hearts to Him and let Him in, then we will be heirs of the covenant promise given to Abraham, the father of many gentiles!
Laurelwhy are you try to sell me that the sabbath still in effect??
you turn everything around the law and include the new testament in it ,
Pierre
Why do you believe the commands were done away with? Who did away with them? Who was given that authority?
And by the way, who do you follow?
SCRIPTURE please.Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 28 2010,12:29) Why do you believe the commands were done away with? Who did away with them? Who was given that authority?
And by the way, who do you follow?
SCRIPTURE please.
LaurelAc 15:1 Some men came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the brothers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.”
Ac 15:2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question.
Ac 15:3 The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the brothers very glad.
Ac 15:4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.
Ac 15:5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses.”
Ac 15:6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question.
Ac 15:7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe.
Ac 15:8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.
Ac 15:9 He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.
Ac 15:10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear?
Ac 15:11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
Ac 15:12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the miraculous signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them.
Ac 15:13 When they finished, James spoke up: “Brothers, listen to me.
Ac 15:14 Simon has described to us how God at first showed his concern by taking from the Gentiles a people for himself.
Ac 15:15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
Ac 15:16 “ ‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
Ac 15:17 that the remnant of men may seek the Lord,
and all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’
Ac 15:18 that have been known for ages.
Ac 15:19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.
Ac 15:20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.
Ac 15:21 For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers
Ac 15:22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, two men who were leaders among the brothers.
Ac 15:23 With them they sent the following letter:The apostles and elders, your brothers,
To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings.
Ac 15:24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.
Ac 15:25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul—
Ac 15:26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Ac 15:27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing.
Ac 15:28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:
Ac 15:29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.Col 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
Pierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 26 2010,03:50) Quote (theodorej @ Nov. 25 2010,21:16) The term rich is not applied in a literal sense ,with respect to monetary wealth….Jesus was rich in virtue,understanding,wisdom and character
Hi Ted,Which one of these things did Jesus stop possessing when he became “poor” for us?
mike
Mike …. He was never poor although his ministry has a historical archive of at least 3 1/2 his life span was that of a 30+ years of which it is said that he was a tradesmen and the son of a master carpenter….There are many myths about Jesus the man that have never been questioned and therefore never challenged….How about his long hair and blue eyes….He was a jew with the hair cut of his era which was typically short perhaps with or without a beard….The other is this doe eyed effeminite looking man with long hair…remember he was a tradesmen which had demanding physical requisites..(he was not puny I would think)…Do you think it was some milktoast that went into the temple square and turned over the tables of the money changers..(they would have kicked his butt)…..just some food for thoughtWhat is it you do not understand?
Like i said, they would be listing to the Words of Mosheh every Sabbath!
And why do you pull a verse from the letter to the Corinthians out of context, AS IF to support your false doctrines?
The Jewish Pharisees also do this. Here is an example.
WHen a little child asked his Rabbi why the Rabbi's do not do according to the Torah, the Jewish Rabbi answered, “On Nehemiah look, “It is not in heaven.” and pointed to a verse in the Torah. This Rabbi then went on to explain to the young Jewish boy that the Rabbis have all authority on earth to decipher the meaning of the written Torah and write takkanot and ma'asim, rules and traditions which become law for all the Jews. The rabbi went on to explain that the authority is not in heaven, it is with the Jewish Rabbis.Here are those same words 'in context” that so called Rabbi quoted from.
10 if you obey the voice of יהוה your Elohim, to guard His commands and His laws which are written in this Book of the Torah, if you turn back to יהוה your Elohim with all your heart and with all your being.
11 “For this command which I am commanding you today, it is not too hard for you, nor is it far off. 12 “It is not in the heavens, to say, ‘Who shall ascend into the heavens for us, and bring it to us, and cause us to hear it, so that we do it?’ 13 “Nor is it beyond the sea, to say, ‘Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it to us, and cause us to hear it, so that we do it?’ 14 “For the Word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart – to do it.
15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, and death and evil, 16 in that I am commanding you today to love יהוה your Elohim, to walk in His ways, and to guard His commands, and His laws, and His right-rulings. And you shall live and increase, and יהוה your Elohim shall bless you in the land which you go to possess. 17 “But if your heart turns away, and you do not obey, and shall be drawn away, and shall bow down to other mighty ones and serve them, 18 “I have declared to you today that you shall certainly perish, you shall not prolong your days in the land which you are passing over the Yardĕn to enter and possess.
19 “I have called the heavens and the earth as witnesses today against you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Therefore you shall choose life, so that you live, both you and your seed, 20 to love יהוה your Elohim, to obey His voice, and to cling to Him – for He is your life and the length of your days – to dwell in the land which יהוה swore to your fathers, to Aḇraham, to Yitsḥaq, and to Ya῾aqoḇ, to give them.”So you can see that the Phophets were correct when they warned Yisra'el that there would be false prophets who speak against Torah, by their own doctrines and cause the people to stumble.
You are no different are you?
Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 28 2010,13:53) What is it you do not understand?
Like i said, they would be listing to the Words of Mosheh every Sabbath!
And why do you pull a verse from the letter to the Corinthians out of context, AS IF to support your false doctrines?
The Jewish Pharisees also do this. Here is an example.
WHen a little child asked his Rabbi why the Rabbi's do not do according to the Torah, the Jewish Rabbi answered, “On Nehemiah look, “It is not in heaven.” and pointed to a verse in the Torah. This Rabbi then went on to explain to the young Jewish boy that the Rabbis have all authority on earth to decipher the meaning of the written Torah and write takkanot and ma'asim, rules and traditions which become law for all the Jews. The rabbi went on to explain that the authority is not in heaven, it is with the Jewish Rabbis.Here are those same words 'in context” that so called Rabbi quoted from.
10 if you obey the voice of יהוה your Elohim, to guard His commands and His laws which are written in this Book of the Torah, if you turn back to יהוה your Elohim with all your heart and with all your being.
11 “For this command which I am commanding you today, it is not too hard for you, nor is it far off. 12 “It is not in the heavens, to say, ‘Who shall ascend into the heavens for us, and bring it to us, and cause us to hear it, so that we do it?’ 13 “Nor is it beyond the sea, to say, ‘Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it to us, and cause us to hear it, so that we do it?’ 14 “For the Word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart – to do it.
15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, and death and evil, 16 in that I am commanding you today to love יהוה your Elohim, to walk in His ways, and to guard His commands, and His laws, and His right-rulings. And you shall live and increase, and יהוה your Elohim shall bless you in the land which you go to possess. 17 “But if your heart turns away, and you do not obey, and shall be drawn away, and shall bow down to other mighty ones and serve them, 18 “I have declared to you today that you shall certainly perish, you shall not prolong your days in the land which you are passing over the Yardĕn to enter and possess.
19 “I have called the heavens and the earth as witnesses today against you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Therefore you shall choose life, so that you live, both you and your seed, 20 to love יהוה your Elohim, to obey His voice, and to cling to Him – for He is your life and the length of your days – to dwell in the land which יהוה swore to your fathers, to Aḇraham, to Yitsḥaq, and to Ya῾aqoḇ, to give them.”So you can see that the Phophets were correct when they warned Yisra'el that there would be false prophets who speak against Torah, by their own doctrines and cause the people to stumble.
You are no different are you?
LMt 23:7 they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them ‘Rabbi.’
Mt 23:8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.this is the teachings of the son of God the Christ.
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 28 2010,07:51) Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 28 2010,13:53) What is it you do not understand?
Like i said, they would be listing to the Words of Mosheh every Sabbath!
And why do you pull a verse from the letter to the Corinthians out of context, AS IF to support your false doctrines?
The Jewish Pharisees also do this. Here is an example.
WHen a little child asked his Rabbi why the Rabbi's do not do according to the Torah, the Jewish Rabbi answered, “On Nehemiah look, “It is not in heaven.” and pointed to a verse in the Torah. This Rabbi then went on to explain to the young Jewish boy that the Rabbis have all authority on earth to decipher the meaning of the written Torah and write takkanot and ma'asim, rules and traditions which become law for all the Jews. The rabbi went on to explain that the authority is not in heaven, it is with the Jewish Rabbis.Here are those same words 'in context” that so called Rabbi quoted from.
10 if you obey the voice of יהוה your Elohim, to guard His commands and His laws which are written in this Book of the Torah, if you turn back to יהוה your Elohim with all your heart and with all your being.
11 “For this command which I am commanding you today, it is not too hard for you, nor is it far off. 12 “It is not in the heavens, to say, ‘Who shall ascend into the heavens for us, and bring it to us, and cause us to hear it, so that we do it?’ 13 “Nor is it beyond the sea, to say, ‘Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it to us, and cause us to hear it, so that we do it?’ 14 “For the Word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart – to do it.
15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, and death and evil, 16 in that I am commanding you today to love יהוה your Elohim, to walk in His ways, and to guard His commands, and His laws, and His right-rulings. And you shall live and increase, and יהוה your Elohim shall bless you in the land which you go to possess. 17 “But if your heart turns away, and you do not obey, and shall be drawn away, and shall bow down to other mighty ones and serve them, 18 “I have declared to you today that you shall certainly perish, you shall not prolong your days in the land which you are passing over the Yardĕn to enter and possess.
19 “I have called the heavens and the earth as witnesses today against you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Therefore you shall choose life, so that you live, both you and your seed, 20 to love יהוה your Elohim, to obey His voice, and to cling to Him – for He is your life and the length of your days – to dwell in the land which יהוה swore to your fathers, to Aḇraham, to Yitsḥaq, and to Ya῾aqoḇ, to give them.”So you can see that the Phophets were correct when they warned Yisra'el that there would be false prophets who speak against Torah, by their own doctrines and cause the people to stumble.
You are no different are you?
LMt 23:7 they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them ‘Rabbi.’
Mt 23:8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.this is the teachings of the son of God the Christ.
Pierre
You posted rightly, but you ignored my question and the fact that you do the same thing as they do when you take the Word out of context and use it to your own imagination.Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 28 2010,14:58) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 28 2010,07:51) Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 28 2010,13:53) What is it you do not understand?
Like i said, they would be listing to the Words of Mosheh every Sabbath!
And why do you pull a verse from the letter to the Corinthians out of context, AS IF to support your false doctrines?
The Jewish Pharisees also do this. Here is an example.
WHen a little child asked his Rabbi why the Rabbi's do not do according to the Torah, the Jewish Rabbi answered, “On Nehemiah look, “It is not in heaven.” and pointed to a verse in the Torah. This Rabbi then went on to explain to the young Jewish boy that the Rabbis have all authority on earth to decipher the meaning of the written Torah and write takkanot and ma'asim, rules and traditions which become law for all the Jews. The rabbi went on to explain that the authority is not in heaven, it is with the Jewish Rabbis.Here are those same words 'in context” that so called Rabbi quoted from.
10 if you obey the voice of יהוה your Elohim, to guard His commands and His laws which are written in this Book of the Torah, if you turn back to יהוה your Elohim with all your heart and with all your being.
11 “For this command which I am commanding you today, it is not too hard for you, nor is it far off. 12 “It is not in the heavens, to say, ‘Who shall ascend into the heavens for us, and bring it to us, and cause us to hear it, so that we do it?’ 13 “Nor is it beyond the sea, to say, ‘Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it to us, and cause us to hear it, so that we do it?’ 14 “For the Word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart – to do it.
15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, and death and evil, 16 in that I am commanding you today to love יהוה your Elohim, to walk in His ways, and to guard His commands, and His laws, and His right-rulings. And you shall live and increase, and יהוה your Elohim shall bless you in the land which you go to possess. 17 “But if your heart turns away, and you do not obey, and shall be drawn away, and shall bow down to other mighty ones and serve them, 18 “I have declared to you today that you shall certainly perish, you shall not prolong your days in the land which you are passing over the Yardĕn to enter and possess.
19 “I have called the heavens and the earth as witnesses today against you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Therefore you shall choose life, so that you live, both you and your seed, 20 to love יהוה your Elohim, to obey His voice, and to cling to Him – for He is your life and the length of your days – to dwell in the land which יהוה swore to your fathers, to Aḇraham, to Yitsḥaq, and to Ya῾aqoḇ, to give them.”So you can see that the Phophets were correct when they warned Yisra'el that there would be false prophets who speak against Torah, by their own doctrines and cause the people to stumble.
You are no different are you?
LMt 23:7 they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them ‘Rabbi.’
Mt 23:8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.this is the teachings of the son of God the Christ.
Pierre
You posted rightly, but you ignored my question and the fact that you do the same thing as they do when you take the Word out of context and use it to your own imagination.
LMt 7:15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
Mt 24:11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
Mt 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.2Pe 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
1Jn 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world
so yes i do believe that it is so.
Pierre
Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 28 2010,14:59) Come out of Babel and live!
Li am already out of babel(world),unless you have a other babel??
what is your Babel looks like
Pierre
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 10 2010,15:12) To all, On Nov. 08 2010,06:26 Mike Boll posted to the Preexistence thread in the Traditions forum:
Quote Well, I was reading in 2 Cor today and found this:
2 Corinthians 8:8-9 NIV
8 I am not commanding you, but I want to test the sincerity of your love by comparing it with the earnestness of others. 9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you through his poverty might become rich.Kerwin, in what way was Jesus “rich” except for his uniquely wonderful position at God's right hand? He was a tradesman's son. His family was apparently not “rich”, for when the time came for them to present Jesus to Jehovah at the temple for his purification rites; they didn't have the lamb and dove to offer, but instead offered the two doves that were deemed acceptable by God for people who could not afford a lamb.
So exactly what “riches” did Jesus empty himself of to become poor for us?
I think this ties into my understanding of Phil 2 wonderfully, don't you?
It is through Jesus’ death and resurrection we can become rich and so Jesus was rich in being a living human being who owed death nothing as he did not sin.
This thread is only to debate the spiritual truths revealed by 2 Corinthians 8:8-9 and how they relate to other scripture truths and scriptures.
kerwin,Jesus Christ's God and Father is rich in mercy and rich in grace and rich in glory [manifested power].
Jesus Christ as heir of the Father and more directly, simply the son of God has access to these riches.
Jesus Christ by humbling himself, [he is after all,the only begotten son of God, he could have been arrogant and boastful] to do the will of the Father, made available to us the same riches of mercy, grace and glory that Jesus Christ had access to as the son of God.
Even at the lowest material level. It is clear that God wants us to prosper and be in health. III John 2.
Jesus Christ's humble obedience to the Father repaired the breach cause by Adam's transgression. We now have boldness and access with confidence. Ephesians 3:12.
We can and are exhorted to go boldly to the throne of grace that we obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. Hebrews 4:16.
Jesus Christ could have done a lot of self exalting things that would have had immediate benefits to himself. But he did not. He chose to humbly obey the written scriptures.
Our lives are so much richer for it.
barley
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 28 2010,08:23) Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 28 2010,14:58) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 28 2010,07:51) Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 28 2010,13:53) What is it you do not understand?
Like i said, they would be listing to the Words of Mosheh every Sabbath!
And why do you pull a verse from the letter to the Corinthians out of context, AS IF to support your false doctrines?
The Jewish Pharisees also do this. Here is an example.
WHen a little child asked his Rabbi why the Rabbi's do not do according to the Torah, the Jewish Rabbi answered, “On Nehemiah look, “It is not in heaven.” and pointed to a verse in the Torah. This Rabbi then went on to explain to the young Jewish boy that the Rabbis have all authority on earth to decipher the meaning of the written Torah and write takkanot and ma'asim, rules and traditions which become law for all the Jews. The rabbi went on to explain that the authority is not in heaven, it is with the Jewish Rabbis.Here are those same words 'in context” that so called Rabbi quoted from.
10 if you obey the voice of יהוה your Elohim, to guard His commands and His laws which are written in this Book of the Torah, if you turn back to יהוה your Elohim with all your heart and with all your being.
11 “For this command which I am commanding you today, it is not too hard for you, nor is it far off. 12 “It is not in the heavens, to say, ‘Who shall ascend into the heavens for us, and bring it to us, and cause us to hear it, so that we do it?’ 13 “Nor is it beyond the sea, to say, ‘Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it to us, and cause us to hear it, so that we do it?’ 14 “For the Word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart – to do it.
15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, and death and evil, 16 in that I am commanding you today to love יהוה your Elohim, to walk in His ways, and to guard His commands, and His laws, and His right-rulings. And you shall live and increase, and יהוה your Elohim shall bless you in the land which you go to possess. 17 “But if your heart turns away, and you do not obey, and shall be drawn away, and shall bow down to other mighty ones and serve them, 18 “I have declared to you today that you shall certainly perish, you shall not prolong your days in the land which you are passing over the Yardĕn to enter and possess.
19 “I have called the heavens and the earth as witnesses today against you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Therefore you shall choose life, so that you live, both you and your seed, 20 to love יהוה your Elohim, to obey His voice, and to cling to Him – for He is your life and the length of your days – to dwell in the land which יהוה swore to your fathers, to Aḇraham, to Yitsḥaq, and to Ya῾aqoḇ, to give them.”So you can see that the Phophets were correct when they warned Yisra'el that there would be false prophets who speak against Torah, by their own doctrines and cause the people to stumble.
You are no different are you?
LMt 23:7 they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them ‘Rabbi.’
Mt 23:8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.this is the teachings of the son of God the Christ.
Pierre
You posted rightly, but you ignored my question and the fact that you do the same thing as they do when you take the Word out of context and use it to your own imagination.
LMt 7:15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
Mt 24:11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
Mt 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.2Pe 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
1Jn 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world
so yes i do believe that it is so.
Pierre
So what you are trying to tell me is that you are a false prophet? Is that your answer?
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