Are there two Spirits or One?

The Holy Spirit is a spirit, but is the Father also a spirit?

Well we know that the Father is God and God is spirit. The Father is the Father of all spirits and life. The Father is also the father of our Lord Jesus Christ? But the gospels tell us that the Holy Spirit came upon Mary and because of this, the child was to be called the Son of God. So who is the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Father or the Holy Spirit?

Luke 1:35
The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

The answer is that both are the father if the Trinity Doctrine is to be believed. However, I will demonstrate that the Spirit of God is the Father’s own spirit and is not another person as many believe.

1 Peter 1:14-16
Be obedient to God, and do not allow your lives to be shaped by those desires you had when you were still ignorant. Instead, be holy in all that you do, just as God who called you is holy. The scripture says, “Be holy because I am holy.”

John 4:24
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

So God is holy and God is a spirit, thus he can be described as a holy spirit. However, we are also taught that there is one spirit, so God is more correctly called ‘the Holy Spirit’, not as one holy spirit among two or many. If the Trinity Doctrine were true, then there would be two Spirits, the Father and the Holy Spirit. But scripture tells us there is but one Spirit.

Ephesians 4:4-6
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Further, scripture clearly says that “The LORD is the Spirit”, thus the Father who is God is the Spirit. Most agree that the Father is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit took part in his conception with Mary. If the Holy Spirit was another person, then Jesus would have two fathers, the Father and the Holy Spirit. That is if the Trinity Doctrine was a true doctrine.

2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

Also, if God is Spirit and he imparts his spirit into redeemed vessels, and if he will eventually be in all and through all, then that would suggest that God the Father will inhabit all by his own spirit. And we know he is the God of the living not the dead, so his spirit is life and the source of all life for his creation and also for his son. So creation is not inhabited by two spirits but one, that is God’s own spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:28
When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Luke 20:38
He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing.

Finally, we are taught in scripture that he is the Father of spirits.

Hebrews 12:9
Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live!

For me I think of this in this way.

Q: Who is God?
A: The Father?

Q: What is God?
A: He is spirit

God is the Father and God is the Holy Spirit. This is not two persons but two aspects of the same God. While God is in heaven, he can inhabit all creation by his own spirit. Just as the sun is located in the centre of the Solar System, its rays shine out to all the Solar System. Similarly, our Heavenly Father can inhabit all creation by his spirit. However as an aside, God’s own creation is not even big enough to contain him. He exists outside the cosmos too.

1 Corinthians 15:27-28
For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

1 Kings 8:27
“But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built!

So God the Father can inhabit his creation by his own spirit.

This also makes sense when we read the following:

Matthew 12:32
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

It is worse to speak against the Spirit than it is against the Son. This demonstrates to us that God is above the son and even his Spirit is above his son because the Spirit of God is God and the son of God is the Son and we know that the head of Christ is God in the same way that the head of man is Christ.

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Posts
July 3, 2015 at 5:02 pm#800636
Proclaimer
Participant
There is no confusion. God begat a son. How hard is that to grasp.
July 3, 2015 at 5:04 pm#800638
Proclaimer
Participant
The only way Jesus can be the Son of God is if there are two God and if there is two Gods then you have polytheism.
Chances are that Kerwin mistyped. I think he meant to say:
The only way Jesus can be God is if there are two God and if there is two Gods then you have polytheism.
July 3, 2015 at 5:05 pm#800639
AndrewAD
Participant
Apparently a lot of people are confused about it.
July 3, 2015 at 5:15 pm#800640
AndrewAD
Participant
Just look what you’ve done T8,you’ve driven Kerwin to denying Jesus as being the only Son of God. For to be the only Son of God makes him a god or even God. This is why the mystery of Trinity evolved so there can still be just one God for those who prefer that or not.
July 3, 2015 at 5:33 pm#800642
AndrewAD
Participant
Do you worship the Son of God T8? If so then you’re guilty of worshiping the”second God” as blessed Origen called him.And maybe you are a polytheist too.
Actually modalism is the best answer according to basic logic.Most trinitarians actually think more in the terms of modalism but will of course deny that if questioned.Even St Augustine leaned on modalistic logic in his reasoning for trinity.
July 3, 2015 at 5:34 pm#800643
Proclaimer
Participant
AndrewAD. The reason you are confused is you over analyse things.
The simple explanation is Kerwin mistyped, but we await his reply.
As for the whole Trinity debate being confusing, I agree it is. But:
Once you remove the Trinity everything clears up.
The Father is the one true God and Jesus his son is simple for anyone to comprehend. There is no excuse.
Remove the Trinity from the word God and scripture makes perfect sense.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Now add the Trinity Doctrine to John 3:16
For the Trinity so loved the world, that they gave their only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in them should not perish, but have everlasting life.
So now we have two who are Jesus. The one who is God and the other who is the son of God.
As soon as you see scripture through the Trinity Doctrine, the confusion begins.
Why do I even need to explain this?
July 3, 2015 at 5:36 pm#800644
AndrewAD
Participant
T8, as for what Kerwin typed or mistyped it works the same way according to basic logic. He got it right.
July 3, 2015 at 5:36 pm#800645
Proclaimer
Participant
Do you worship the Son of God T8? If so then you’re guilty of worshiping the”second God” as blessed Origen called him.And maybe you are a polytheist too.
Nonsense. You do not know what you are talking about.
Worshipping Jesus as the son of God does not mean he is God.
The word worship is the same word honour and bow down. It is used legitimately of men too.
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
July 3, 2015 at 5:38 pm#800646
Proclaimer
Participant
T8, as for what Kerwin typed or mistyped it works the same way according to basic logic. He got it right.
Nonsense. If two are fully God, then that is one who is 100% God and another who is 100% God. That is two Gods.
July 3, 2015 at 5:52 pm#800647
AndrewAD
Participant
It’s a matter of worshiping a greater and lesser god then. If you do that does that make you a polytheist? Oh of course not according to you. Am I right?
July 3, 2015 at 8:14 pm#800649
kerwin
Participant
AndrewAd,
Kerwin you are antichrist as scripture has said about he that denies the son of God.
I see you chose to take my words out of context but since you do that with Scripture as well I should be honored.
Jesus is the Son of God, as of the Spirit; just as are those that believe in him he is not a second God. There is one God and that is God the Father. The other two God’s the Trinitarians claim male up their one God are fabricated by Spiritless men.
Do you know that God put his Spirit on Jesus Christ? (Matthew 12:18)
It is God’s Spirit and so it has always been on him.(1 Corinthians 2:11)
As son as God placed his Spirit on his Servant, Jesus became his son and as the Christ he is the chief son of God.(Galatians 4:6)
Those who believe Jesus is God cannot believe he is the Son of God as God’s own Spirit has been placed and it is now sent in the name of Jesus Christ.
July 3, 2015 at 8:20 pm#800650
kerwin
Participant
t8,
I assumed my reader would understand what t I was stating by the context without the need to add the words “and be God”. I believe you did but AndrewAD did not.
July 3, 2015 at 9:01 pm#800651
Proclaimer
Participant
It’s a matter of worshiping a greater and lesser god then. If you do that does that make you a polytheist? Oh of course not according to you. Am I right?
Let me repeat it and hopefully this time you pay attention.
I worship the Father as God.
I worship Jesus as the son of God.
I do not worship the Father as the Son nor the Son as God.
The Father is God and Jesus is his Son.
Simple as that.
July 3, 2015 at 10:52 pm#800653
kerwin
Participant
t8,
If you worship two gods it makes you a polytheist. I worship God and pay homage to Jesus Anointed. Koine Greek does not always mark the difference between the two but there is a difference. It is probably one of many things you are to understand by the context.
July 4, 2015 at 2:02 am#800658
princess
Participant
ah T8, Andrew does have a point, your statement has you worshiping two, the father and son.
now, what you have in your heart & mind could be entirely different, but in print, logically, your a polytheist.

July 5, 2015 at 1:59 pm#800727
Proclaimer
Participant
I don’t believe he has a point at all. Yes he would if the word was only ever applied to God legitimately.
This application of the word ‘worship/honour’ as being only applied to God is a popular Pentecostal teaching, but does it stand when you test it.
The word ‘worship’ in scripture is used not only of God, but legitimately of men too. Check it out in a concordance.
People think that you shouldn’t worship anyone but God as spoken of in scripture by an angel.
And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things. But he said to me, “Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God.”
&
Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.”
Nothing in scripture says that we should only honour/worship God. In fact the angel in the first scripture is highlighting the fact that he too is a servant and rejects the honour that John is showing him. The angel is basically saying that he is not worthy to receive such honour, rather give it to God.
But it is what we honour an angel or person as, that is important. Remember that the word worship is also the word honour.
People honoured the king of Israel as God’s chosen, (Not as God). We are told in Revelation that people will come at worship at your feet to let them know that God has loved us/them. Nothing about them being God is there.
So this is the real point. We should not honour anyone as God but the Father. If we honour another as God, then they are an idol to us. And in modern times, there are many idols including celebrities.
We can and should honour Jesus as the son of God, and we can honour King David and any other servant of God for what and who they are.
That is the point when you study the word ‘worship’.
But we should never honour anyone but the Father as God.
And who do we honour Jesus as:
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.“
&
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”
So we have one worshipped as God, and another as the son of God and the Lamb and there are many others who honour outside of that, so long as they are of God.
July 5, 2015 at 3:31 pm#800730
terraricca
Participant
hi so it looks that Andrew as no point at all
July 5, 2015 at 4:28 pm#800733
kerwin
Participant
t8,
In English there is a difference between hero worship and religious worship. One Koine Greek word seems to have a definition that means worship as in kissing the floor in a temple as well as one that means a type of homage when you kiss the ground. Context must be which definition is used.
July 5, 2015 at 4:51 pm#800734
princess
Participant
hold on I should read what T8 has written, sorry T8 not one for long speeches. I hold nothing against, ? you have or have not two gods. I have taken on the aspect to feel, read, listen and hear.
note to T8: in print.
it seems like most are fighting over Christ, everyone just stops in awe and that’s it, one man has your undivided attention, and to be on the outside of that life is unbearable, intolerable.
T, as long as the boy is not running around cutting off chicken heads and splatter the blood all over the place. he can do and ask and search what he wants. at times big T, at times + he thinks, that is not a sin or is it? eh! he is a bit witty.
Andrew, I don’t do well with blood gods, and yes I state not nice things about the male gods, so the use of god is a girl is dear to my heart. truly the greatness of spirit holds no gender, but I am not there yet, my journey has me here.
Bodhitharta,
the original name for female is “beautiful evil” did you know that? the thought was nice.

****alright, read T8’s post, T8 this is the nicest thing you have ever said to me.
“We are told in Revelation that people will come at worship at your feet”
say it again……..
“We are told in Revelation that people will come at worship at your feet”
alright if you insist…………LOL! You know T8 when hear something over and over again………..you start taking it as truth, without thinking twice 😉
all the best gentlemen, always a pleasure.
July 6, 2015 at 11:09 am#800748
Proclaimer
Participant
Study scripture and you will see the word ‘worship’ in a biblical context and who that word is legitimately applied to. I did that. The idea that Jesus is/was worshipped as the Son of God and the Lamb somehow making him God is drawing at straws. This idea is but one more farcical argument for the Trinity. If you or anyone has scriptural evidence that being honoured/worshipped makes you God, then I am willing to look at that. Until you can show me that, opinions will have little to no sway over me.
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