Coming Out of the Closet

“Just because a guy struggles with same-sex attraction doesn’t mean God made him gay, any more than a guy struggling with anger means God made him a murderer. You have a choice about what you do with every temptation. You may not choose homosexual desires, but you do choose what you do with them.” https://www.livingwaters.com/coming-out-of-the-closet-on-homosexuality/?fbclid=IwAR2AwQSszigSnc8JOaCM22SR7A71dRxioLTrB-HgJHABm3nu06QCt6kph40

This topic contains 190 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  t8 4 months ago.

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  • #810868
     t8 
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    Bible verse about Homosexuality

    Let’s get straight to the point, scripture condemns homosexuality as it also condemns adultery, fornication, and other serious sins. The Bible however gives at least one reason why some people are homosexual, and you may find it surprising.

    Romans 1:18-32

    18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

    The above is the introduction to what will follow. We can see here that the text is teaching us that mankind has no excuse as to God’s own existence.

    21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

    Here we can see that they knew God, but in time, some ignored him and have him no acknowledgement. Eventually their hearts lost their inherent light and became as dark. They then turned their focus toward created things such as humans and animals. This is a common theme through out our history. We love to create images of humans and animals. They are carved into our architecture and are used as memorials.

    24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised.Amen.

    Above we can see that people worshiped and served created things in the place of the creator. We then discover what one of the outcomes of this is.

    26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

    Homosexuality was not of course the only outcome of rejecting God, the following lists other issues that arose.

    28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

    In other words, because of increasing sin, humanity became subject to all manner of depravities and evil desires with homosexuality being one of them. We see in scripture that homosexuality is caused by worshiping the creature and created things more than the creator and while many do this and are not homosexual, they likely have other struggles to contend with that are mentioned above. It is also interesting to note that gay people themselves have pride in their creativeness and sometimes put that down to being less involved with families, leaving them to time to create instead. While this is likely one good explanation, as many heterosexuals input much creativity into their families rather than a lifelong project, scripture shows us that worshiping the creature and created things can lead to this desire. Of course there is a link in the words creative, creature, and created things and I suppose what scripture is saying is that some put the passion that they should have for God into created things instead of using it for God and the result is not giving God the glory he deserves and of course probably some very creative projects instead.

    One time a man who struggled with homosexuality told me how he believed he ended up struggling with this sin. When he was a boy he was overweight and his dad use to say to him things like, “why can’t you be like that boy over there”, or  “why can’t you have  body like that boy”. This lead him to look at boys and to wish he had a body like some of them in order to get his dad’s approval. At some point he became obsessed with this and then started to desire boys. This is a perfect example of how worshiping the creature (in this case boys/men) can lead to this sin. Another person I met once struggled with homosexual feelings. It turned out that she was sexually molested and as a result she hated men, and of course hating men means she was unlikely to desire them and instead turned to women.

    We must remember however that while God hates sin, he loves the sinner. He loves each and every person, even those who lead depraved lives. His desire is that none should be destroyed and wishes that all will choose to repent of their sins and turn to him. While we all have different weaknesses and struggles, we can replace these with worshiping God and while we may never be cured (like an alcoholic) we can abstain and replace the sin with worshiping God and doing his will. We must also remember, that if we sin, if we are Believers, we then have a covenant with God who will forgive us our sins if we repent.

    1 John 1:9
    If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

    #810873
     t8 
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    Eight identical twin studies in the U.S,, Australia, and Scandinavia over the last two decades arrive at the same conclusion: Homosexuals were not born that way. This is said proof that homosexuality is not genetic.

    “At best genetics is a minor factor,” says Dr. Neil Whitehead, PhD. Whitehead worked for the New Zealand government as a scientific researcher for 24 years, then spent four years working for the United Nations and International Atomic Energy Agency. Most recently, he serves as a consultant to Japanese universities about the effects of radiation exposure. His PhD is in biochemistry and statistics.

    Identical twins have the same genes or DNA. They are nurtured in equal prenatal conditions. If homosexuality is caused by genetics or prenatal conditions and one twin is gay, the co-twin should also be gay.

    “Because they have identical DNA, it ought to be 100%,” Dr. Whitehead notes. But the studies reveal something else. “If an identical twin has same-sex attraction the chances the co-twin has it are only about 11% for men and 14% for women.”

    Because identical twins are always genetically identical, homosexuality cannot be genetically dictated. “No-one is born gay,” he notes. “The predominant things that create homosexuality in one identical twin and not in the other have to be post-birth factors.”

    The predominant things that create homosexuality in one identical twin and not in the other have to be post-birth factors.

    Dr. Whitehead believes same-sex attraction (SSA) is caused by “non-shared factors,” things happening to one twin but not the other, or a personal response to an event by one of the twins and not the other.

    For example, one twin might have exposure to pornography or sexual abuse, but not the other. One twin may interpret and respond to their family or classroom environment differently than the other. “These individual and idiosyncratic responses to random events and to common environmental factors predominate,” he says.

    The first very large, reliable study of identical twins was conducted in Australia in 1991, followed by a large U.S. study about 1997. Then Australia and the U.S. conducted more twin studies in 2000, followed by several studies in Scandinavia, according to Dr. Whitehead.

    “Twin registers are the foundation of modern twin studies. They are now very large, and exist in many countries. A gigantic European twin register with a projected 600,000 members is being organized, but one of the largest in use is in Australia, with more than 25,000 twins on the books.”

    A significant twin study among adolescents shows an even weaker genetic correlation. In 2002 Bearman and Brueckner studied tens of thousands of adolescent students in the U.S. The same-sex attraction concordance between identical twins was only 7.7% for males and 5.3% for females—lower than the 11% and 14% in the Australian study by Bailey et al conducted in 2000.

    In the identical twin studies, Dr. Whitehead has been struck by how fluid and changeable sexual identity can be.

    “Neutral academic surveys show there is substantial change. About half of the homosexual/bisexual population (in a non-therapeutic environment) moves towards heterosexuality over a lifetime. About 3% of the present heterosexual population once firmly believed themselves to be homosexual or bisexual.”

    “Sexual orientation is not set in concrete,” he notes.

    Source

    Read our writing called Why are some people homosexual?

    #810874
     kerwin 
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    t8,

    Only God has the power to overcome temptation. Those that serve other “gods” do not have access to that power.

    #810887
     t8 
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    What about the elect angels and Jesus. They never gave into temptation did they?

    I think it is better to say that only God cannot sin or that only God cannot be tempted, but many are those who have overcome temptation.

    All of God’s creatures can sin, but do not necessarily do so.

    Although, there will come a time when we cannot sin. Our new nature cannot sin even though the old one still does.

    The elect cannot sin once they are rid of the flesh from what I understand. Their names are written in the Book of Life. I suppose that the Elect angels cannot sin either. They too have been tried with temptation, but they remained with God.

    No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

    Once our old nature is gone, then we will not sin anymore. This is why Paul writes:

    But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

    #810900
     kerwin 
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    T8,

    What about the elect angels and Jesus. They never gave into temptation did they?

    Their fruit testifies that they walk according to the Spirit and that is only possible by faith which is why it is written “the righteous live by faith”.

    Remember Jesus told the one that called him intrinsically good that no one is good but God. No one includes both the angels and him. That is also why he prayed that let it be done if it was God’s will and not his.

    The closest anyone but God can be to intrinsically good is to hunger and thirst to be righteous like God. I know some are like that because Matthew 5:6 speaks of them. They are the same ones that love the light.

    #810901
     kerwin 
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    @t8,

    But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

    Sin which dwells in me is also known as flesh and the one who live by it is the old self. Those who don’t have the Spirit are slaves to the flesh and can only struggle to be free but those with Spirit have the power of God to overcome.

    #810902
     t8 
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    Sin which dwells in me is also known as flesh

    Jesus Christ came in the flesh.

    I think that flesh is associated with sin because the flesh nature is a fallen nature. Was Adam was made of flesh before he sinned.

    #810903
     t8 
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    Yes all good comes from God. All goodness in other beings is because of God. No one can claim the are good in that respect, not even Jesus. But we can receive that goodness just as we can other attributes.

    We can participate in divine nature, but only God is the originator of that nature.

    Human nature from Adam became corrupt and we are born into it. We all struggle with different aspects of that nature. But we can be born from above and then our struggle becomes which nature dominates our life.

    #810912
     kerwin 
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    t8,

    I think that flesh is associated with sin because the flesh nature is a fallen nature. Was Adam was made of flesh before he sinned.

    Flesh is associated with the bestial nature in Koine Greek and that translates into the meaning of bestial in English. That still may be the fallen nature.

    Adam was flesh and bone as he stated Eve was flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone. (Genesis 2:23)

    #810913
     kerwin 
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    t8,

    You second sound good to my ears.

    #810970
     942767 
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    I agree with that no man was born a homosexual, and I also believe that no man was born a sinner, but we all yielded to the temptation to sin, whether it be homosexuality or any other sin.

    Jesus was a man, and he was tempted in every way that we were but he did not sin.  The scripture states that “sin is the transgression of the law”.  I know no infant who has transgressed the Law.

    This is what God states in Isaiah 53:

    All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

    1 John 3:4 [Full Chapter]

    Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression ofthe law.
    #810971
     GeneBalthrop 
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    T8…..AS REGUARDING SIN, John tells that…”all that is in the world, the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life is from the world, and the world is passing away, and so is the “lust” the with it”.

    Now considering sexual lusts which are of the flesh, naturally starts when a boy enters puberty around ten or so years old. This is a strong driving force of the flesh, some have more then others, depending on the amount of testeron being generated in his body. This creates a natural lust for sex in nearly all males, and females which causes a lot of various sexual desires and lusts, and i believe a lot of sins in peoples lives also.

    What is find interesting is these lusts in males were mentioned as being handled differently according to JESUS, who said this after addressing the adultery issue,

    Matt 19:11… “For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mothers womb: and there are some enunchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the KINGDOM of heavens sake. HE THAT IS ABLE TO RECIEVE IT, LET HIM RECIEVE IT”.

    The words have “made themselves” might not be exactly right, i believe it should have been “were made eunuchs, for the kingdom of heaven

    WE all know our testosterone levels decrease with age and so does our sexual desires, perhaps this will be completely eliminated in the future and will cause a whole host of sins to also cease. IMO

    What say you?

    peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

    #811304
     t8 
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    Yes Gene.  I think divine nature has no such struggle, but while we can participate in that nature, we are still in the body and have to overcome it with the alternative, to be led by the Spirit. Of course we are not perfect, so we will sin, but we have a covenant with the Most High. Jesus who is our high priest understands our struggles and intercedes to the Father for us.

    #811306
     kerwin 
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    t8,

    Of course we are not perfect, so we will sin

    Ye of little faith. Why don’t you all things are possible with God?

    Hebrews 11:40Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

    Hebrews 7:19Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

    #811643
     david 
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    Why do you think God made or allowed it so that a percentage of each species is also homosexual?

    We would say that with humans, it is because of inherited sin.

    But the animals didn’t sin.  It seems whatever we want to say about the animals, God could have chosen to not allow them to engage in homosexuality.  Yet, all animal species have homosexuality built into them.  If God is disgusted at homosexuality, why would he allow this?

    how would we answer?

    #811644
     kerwin 
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    david,

    There is nothing that states animals do not sin and the fact bestial means sin seems to contradict that premise.

    Jude 10Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

    2 Peter 2:12Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

    That is also why the word “flesh” is used in the words “walk according to the flesh”.

    Another flaw is that some animals are designed to have sex with themselves so it does not surprise me that some can pass on their genes through homosexual sex.

    In addition Satan has messed with the genetic material of animals as well for this world is subject to corruption.

    Homosexual desires are natural to the flesh though they are an unnatural use of the body. Some heterosexual sex is also unnatural to the body but Scripture does not directly condemn it but then it does not really cover the individual sex acts.

    #811696
     t8 
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    @david

    I do not claim to have all the answers, but I am going to give you my 2 cents worth.

    It is possible that once man fell and his nature became corrupt and sinful, then all of nature fell too.

    When man fell, God cursed the Earth and changed the plant life as a direct result of man’s actions.

    About the new Earth, we read that the lion will lay down with the lamb. Currently, the lion eats the lamb. Before the days of Noah, it appears that men were vegetarian or at least God allowed man to eat meat in the Noaic covenant. And God gave all the seed-bearing plants and every tree that has fruit with seed in it as food in the beginning.

    I guess the clue is the descriptions of the new Earth with the lion laying down with the lamb. If that is part of the restoration, then what lions do now is part of this current order. My guess is that animals nor humans will have sinful tendencies to deal with in the new Earth.

    #811698
     t8 
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    t8,

    Of course we are not perfect, so we will sin

     

    Ye of little faith. Why don’t you all things are possible with God? (- kerwin)

    1 John 1:7-9
    but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

    If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

    If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.…

     

    #811703
     kerwin 
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    t8,

    If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

    It does not say:

    If we say that we do not sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

    But some still read those words into it.

    Instead later he states

    1 John 2:1Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

    implying that some do not sin by the use of the word if instead of when.

    Looking at John’s words the phrase “we have no sin” is possession and could possibly referring to the sin nature of humanity but the context makes it more likely it is speaking of past sins as in “all have sinned and fallen short of glory of God”.

    Faith is believing all things are possible with God.

    #811707
     GeneBalthrop 
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    To all…..For whenthey knew God They glorified Him not as God, therefore He turned them “over”, ‘IN” THEIR “MINDS” TO DO THOSE THING WHICH ARE UNSEEMLY’, MEN LUSTING SEXUALLY FOR MEN AND WOMEN DOING THE SAME. I believe no one is born sex pervert, it is a perverted learned behaviour. No one is born a homosexual pervert, and they certainly are not GAY, or Happy, but mentially miserable destorted human beings, whose end is ruination, unless they repent. IMO

    Question is when did this happen when Adam first sinned, or does it happen when we ourselves do not GLORIFY GOD AS GOD.

    I BELIEVE GOD THE FATHER MUST KEEP US FROM THESE CORRUPT MENTAL ILLNESSES, BECAUSE IF HE LETS GO OF US WE CAN WONDER INTO ALL KINDS OF STRANGE AND WIERD and UNNATURAL DESIRES. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

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