https://heavennet.net/members/samual/activity/ Activity feed for samual. Thu, 23 Apr 2026 15:08:38 +1200 https://buddypress.org/?v= en-US 30 hourly 2 fe9c39099a8dd0b063179130f6338e67 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/21/#post-127313 Sun, 12 Apr 2009 10:39:11 +1200 Greetings!I've been away for quite some time due to a prolonged battle with cancer; actually, the battle was more with radiation treatment than with the cancer itself. I seem to be recovering slowly and will try to get back on track with our consideration of the Scriptures.Not to sound overly complaining, but I do believe Nick and Cindy have a…[Read more]

]]> 54a251f5d7d64fe6feccea8e0ec0b97f http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/15/#post-125070 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:48:02 +1300 Nick… Greetings!What you say is partly true. The reason I caution you ragardling this conclusion is because of what Jesus said in the following parable: Luke 19 about the minas. Check this through and let me know your findings. God bless!

]]> 1bddd5498a3f690351085b65070e404c http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/15/#post-125003 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:39:36 +1300 Theodorej… Greetings!Traveling through this subject matter on Natural and Spiritual Israel according to the Scriptural evidence presented it becomes apparent that misconceptions are easily formed due to the Promises of God to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (a covenant) and the New Covenant between Jesus Christ and the Faithful Followers. It seems d…[Read more]

]]> 9a4aead16478d7d1ad9d81ff2a8a6cad http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/14/#post-124892 Sun, 15 Mar 2009 09:23:44 +1300 Georg… Greetings!Your last reply rejected the Scriptural information that refuted the idea that Natural Israel remains in God’s Favor. Both Jesus and the Apostle Paul made the point clear that “all nations” would now be termed New Jerusalem. It isn’t me that is having difficulty understanding the Word of God, but yourself. You are trapped i…[Read more]

]]> 9aa49af6d86c07c6a000bc0ccba90dfb http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/14/#post-124661 Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:41:41 +1300 Georg… Greetings!Seeing that there is no inconsistency within the Scriptures, and that Jesus and the Apostles accurately represented the will of God in all their recorded words, I would have you explain to me just what Paul and Jesus meant by saying the following remarks:Matthew 21:42-43 (New American Standard Bible)“Jesus said to them, ‘Did you n…[Read more]

]]> 46eeb98c002689238ee556322202554a http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/14/#post-124376 Fri, 06 Mar 2009 10:35:43 +1300 Georg… Greetings!Your Scriptural references from Jeremiah and Ezekiel took place prior and during the Babylon era, when unrepentant Jerusalem refused to heed the warnings from these prophets and were deported to Babylon after their beloved city was taken. (circa 607 BC) The passages you quoted showed that God would recover them from their c…[Read more]

]]> 68a33daa6409d0cf686915e715d93a04 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/13/#post-124182 Thu, 05 Mar 2009 10:45:48 +1300 Georg… Greetings!You say: “That covenant had nothing to do with the covenant God made with Abraham.”I’m afraid that you are mistaken. If you look at what God said to Abraham, you can see the implications that include Abraham’s descendents:Genesis 17:7 (New American Standard Bible)“I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descen…[Read more]

]]> 42c7743b130efbf765f6431a78f1eb55 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/12/#post-124043 Wed, 04 Mar 2009 10:17:34 +1300 Nick and Georg… Greetings!What you say is Scripturally true in a sense as can be seen from the following verse:Revelation 21:14 (New American Standard Bible)“And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.” As you know, the twelve Apostles were all Israelites, natur…[Read more]

]]> 58a8c27e305a6a6909aa4e0b9eb59363 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/12/#post-123944 Tue, 03 Mar 2009 11:33:18 +1300 Nick and Georg… Greetings!There are things written that obviously are difficult to comprehend for many that study the Scriptures. The relationship between ancient Israel and God as it was in the past is just one of those. You made reference to several passages to support your view that Natural Israel remains in God’s favor. Let’s examine a cou…[Read more]

]]> c6b63a10cf1f3beb8ae896d1c6999681 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/12/#post-123836 Mon, 02 Mar 2009 11:44:00 +1300 Georg… Greetings!I can agree with much of your understanding about the upcoming end of this system of things, but not this comment:“Rev. 21:8 has no relevance to the previous scripture. These are the kind of people who in this life have done such evil crimes, that after they were resurrected they could not, or would not repent; they ended up in…[Read more]

]]> b3485c410485fee66a82c2e85457b7d4 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/12/#post-123834 Mon, 02 Mar 2009 11:20:42 +1300 Nick… Greetings!You appear to be convinced that Natural Israel remains in God’s favor and reject all Scriptural reference that refutes that claim. By so doing, Nick, you negate the sacrifice Jesus made on behalf all mankind.Both Jesus and the Apostle Paul made it very clear that this arrangement was no longer in effect when they said:Matthew 21:…[Read more]

]]> 47fe4a5291a211dcaf54d034e2eb5ba8 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/11/#post-123711 Sun, 01 Mar 2009 10:40:39 +1300 Georg… Greetings!You are correct in your assessment and application of the timing of events mentioned. However, I was attempting to draw out the implications stated so clearly in Revelation 21:8 as they relate to Revelation 19:11-21.If we go back to other Scriptures, perhaps you can better see what I meant:Matthew 24:37-39 (New American S…[Read more]

]]> 189b81195a9011c88f7840cf40ea61a8 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/11/#post-123708 Sun, 01 Mar 2009 10:03:32 +1300 Nick… Greetings!Your reply indicates to me that you are on the right track in what you understand about Revelation 19:11-21, but with one slight deviation, I believe. Let me explain from what the Scriptures tell us:Revelation 19:15 (New American Standard Bible)“From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nat…[Read more]

]]> cea58d751ef8b0cd3743b4448f6ef505 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/11/#post-123445 Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:45:00 +1300 To All… Greetings!If, then, we understand that Revelation 14:1,4 directly relates to the “elect” or the “chosen ones” who have been “purchased from among men” to reign as “kings and priests” with Christ Jesus over the earth for “a thousand years” what about those who will be earthly subjects of God's Kingdom on earth? Who are they? I leave you…[Read more]

]]> 7591d8691170828b60ba79590f94d2e5 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/10/#post-122597 Mon, 23 Feb 2009 10:45:54 +1300 To All… Greetings!Getting back to the “second death” I think we should consider a couple of Scriptures that will open up another view of what it means:Revelation 2:11 (New American Standard Bible)“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.” Revelation 20:6 (New Amer…[Read more]

]]> 6b7c6557555c2e2afdf03ef6d5085dcf http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/8/#post-121456 Fri, 13 Feb 2009 11:06:13 +1300 Georg… Greetings!There seems to be a couple of spots in your comments that lead me to believe that you misunderstood my point. I’ll try to address them again but with more clarity.The first remark you made was this: “You say the 200 million are angels, you say the third part of men were killed by the angels.”Although the “200 million” referred to…[Read more]

]]> b98e5ad0e6b04c9782e9cf631ba525e5 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/7/#post-121304 Thu, 12 Feb 2009 13:14:54 +1300 Georg… Greetings!Let me take another look at this your questions:“An army 200 million strong? I did not say it could not be possible; the question is, would it be necessarily? Also, today were military is being deployed over oceans; do you think a river would cause a problem to cross?”The first point that comes to mind, dealing with the first…[Read more]

]]> 46a8d577a6cb9cd3c7830a5c45612ab1 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/6/#post-121017 Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:59:06 +1300 Georg… Greetings!I find your work on “The Seven Trumpets and The Seven Bowls” quite fascinating. You have placed all these events in the past with diligence toward historical accounts that seem to line up very well with recorded Scriptural prophecy. However, although I do not profess to understand all the metaphoric dialogue within the Scrip…[Read more]

]]> 030d0a95bfa5451d6434eee1433bd829 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/6/#post-121015 Tue, 10 Feb 2009 11:10:24 +1300 Samual… Greetings!As you likely are quite aware, the entire Bible contains much metaphoric language, especially the Revelation account by John. But Jesus and the Apostles accepted the Scriptures as the Word of God; and seeing that God never lies, what is written within the Bible, is the truth. However, it does require reasoning to ascertain t…[Read more]

]]> f03e7e71e5ff698604655c82704c3df2 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/6/#post-120860 Sun, 08 Feb 2009 23:55:25 +1300 Georg… Greetings!I have read through your “Seven Trumpets and Seven Bowls” Post and will do so again very shortly before I make any comment.I do have a comment on the remarks you gave to Nick about people posting to state their views and not wanting to learn anything. It strikes me as a bit unfair. Now, I cannot speak for them, but I belie…[Read more]

]]> e2bd1e6c8c559a6fe3cb505f9a162a50 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/5/#post-120768 Sun, 08 Feb 2009 11:35:32 +1300 Georg… Greetings!Correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t this rendition of Rome, Napoleon and the Vatican fulfilling the prophecies of Revelation originally from the writings of Charles Taze Russell? If so, what do you suppose he would have proposed about the events that have taken place since 1916 had he lived to this day? Do you believe he wou…[Read more]

]]> 2f654b19c2d31decca9c70d20d844a3b http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/5/#post-120765 Sun, 08 Feb 2009 10:27:57 +1300 Nick… Greetings!There is no sanction against reasoning on the Scriptures. Your disbelief in the Second Death having taken place prior to our time does not agree with recorded Scriptural events. Let’s take a serious look at what the Scriptures tell us:Matthew 12:32 (New American Standard Bible)“Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it sh…[Read more]

]]> e99f4bdba835df19b9bf7e2621737f7c http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/4/#post-120651 Sat, 07 Feb 2009 18:28:27 +1300 Georg… Greetings!Yes! I have noticed that many others feel the same as I do about their belief; this is to be expected; after all, wasn’t it Jesus who asked:Luke 18:8 (New American Standard Bible)“I tell you that He will bring about justice for them quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?”Quite obvious…[Read more]

]]> 76deb9622cef7cf9a8e33f0f1466ad93 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/4/#post-120636 Sat, 07 Feb 2009 11:59:18 +1300 Georg… Greetings!Please consider closely the following:Actually, Georg, the idea that “all men to be saved” (1 Timothy 2:3-4) is FALSE. The reason is quite “simple” if you search into the Scriptures with an open mind and “listen to what the Spirit says to the churches (congregations).” (Revelation 2:7)The Apostle Paul states the following:2 T…[Read more]

]]> e6b5f6ad46a260d3af0755831772f0a7 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/4/#post-120634 Sat, 07 Feb 2009 11:40:53 +1300 Samuel… Greetings!Your comment: “It is also to my belief that there are some very literal aspects of Revelation as well as through out the whole Bible. In fact a lot of things are both Allegory and Literal at the same time.”I most definitely agree with your conclusion above; however, I must point out to you that symbolism, symbolic repre…[Read more]

]]> dec1e74a82d3d1474913e735489bfdd9 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/4/#post-120509 Fri, 06 Feb 2009 12:53:08 +1300 Georg… Greetings!Sorry for taking so long getting back to you on this topic, but I seem to be traveling a lot these days. Your Scriptural reference to what Jesus said “Mat 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city” has another meaning than the one you h…[Read more]

]]> 9f6dd05ea093919dbca2f707013798db http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/2/#post-120399 Thu, 05 Feb 2009 13:05:06 +1300 Georg… Greetings!Many Bible Students seem to be confused regarding what the “breath of life” is in reality. If we return to the first mention of its activity, we can better understand by considering what it accomplished.Genesis 2:7 (Darby Translation)“And Jehovah Elohim formed Man, dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath…[Read more]

]]> 430695f94cdb91e2c2b7cbf99c42125c http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/2/#post-120398 Thu, 05 Feb 2009 11:54:26 +1300 Georg… Greetings!As you say, “the Holy Spirit was not given until after Christ ascended into heaven.” This fact was recorded for us in Acts chapter 2. But consider this point: Was Pentecost the only time Holy Spirit was active throughout human existence? Jeroboam’s entire family was cursed because of his sins against God. That point was made ve…[Read more]

]]> d7cfbd0ccabc77efb16d6cd2b5c42db0 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/page/2/#post-120396 Thu, 05 Feb 2009 10:58:17 +1300 Meerkat… Greetings!Your remark is partly true: “I am not convinced that it speaks of all individuals being gathered all into one place for there final destination for all eternity to be given to them, ie., eternal torment for those who do not believe so they are necessarily all wicked.”There is not enough space in any country to gather all human…[Read more]

]]> 850a4dd1ec6c8b0965970c4307ac2c7d http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/#post-120329 Thu, 05 Feb 2009 00:22:11 +1300 Meercat… Greetings!Although there is much symbolic representation throughout Revelation, you cannot dispute what Jesus stated:Matthew 25:41;46 (New American Standard Bible)“Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels …These will go away into…[Read more]

]]> ff750df767984674ffb5cc4974bd9ba7 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/#post-120288 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 18:57:02 +1300 Cindy… Greetings!On the topic of the “second death” do you believe there are those living or those that have lived in past times that have already experienced that death? The reason I ask this question is because of what is written in 1 Kings 13:33-34; 14:1-13 regarding Jeroboam. Give that passage a read and do let me know your thoughts. God…[Read more]

]]> a3ee289d23f9b71bfa70072ef8832ec8 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/the-second-death/#post-120270 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:30:27 +1300 Georg & Nick… Greetings!Yes, you are very right! I guess I thought that part was already established and not necessary to consider on a Bible Study group like this board. Guess I was wrong.Okay, then; let’s see what the Scriptures tell us as to what the “soul” really is:Genesis 2:7 (Darby Translation)“And Jehovah Elohim formed Man, dust of t…[Read more]

]]> ee11cf7f7b26b3232d017e7530db9282 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/preterism/page/8/#post-119794 Sat, 31 Jan 2009 10:31:54 +1300 BT/RS… Greetings!Correct me if I am wrong, BT, but are you agreeing that the Scriptures and at least some prophecies within extend past 70CE? If so, then we can now move on to other topics and dig deeper into the Word of God.I tend to side with RS on this note. As I’ve mentioned before, many folks have their own ideas as to what the Scr…[Read more]

]]> dfae0fc47f448eab19ad7bdae652cecc http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/preterism/page/8/#post-119683 Fri, 30 Jan 2009 12:31:46 +1300 BT/RS… Greetings!And around and Round we go! All Scriptures and history considered, there is truth in both views without much doubt. However, the evidence points to a continuation of God’s Kingdom on Earth (the Globe) and does not end with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70CE. One Scripture that I have made reference to before must be con…[Read more]

]]> 9016fe863b2d0c2cb7dc44ca14f08261 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/preterism/page/8/#post-119303 Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:16:00 +1300 To All Contributors… Greetings!Throughout our discussion of Preterist interpretation of Scriptural events, it appears to me that the topic fails to reach any satisfying conclusion. This reminds me of those that support the Trinity Doctrine in that they hold tightly to their belief and all Scriptural evidence refuting that belief is flatly r…[Read more]

]]> dd86bdb267cb1fe0905cf0f53784cd3c http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/preterism/page/7/#post-119141 Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:51:12 +1300 BT… Greetings!Unlike others, I do understand that John was writing to counterpoise, not unlike the ancient prophets did in their time. However, as you are well aware, their writings (prophecies) stretched down through the centuries before reaching fulfillment as does John’s Revelation account.One such example is the very first prophecy rec…[Read more]

]]> 1edf2fee19a247a41d38bb8e8150955f http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/preterism/page/7/#post-118997 Sun, 25 Jan 2009 11:43:50 +1300 BT… Greetings!My questions to you, then, is this: Are you saying that Armageddon occurred back in 70CE? Was Satan and his minions abyssed at that time and therefore we are now living in a world of peace and harmony under God’s Kingdom on earth? Has the general resurrection of dead mankind already taken place? Has Jesus Christ destroyed all “te…[Read more]

]]> ea9b5650b9c5dda463f2f147390ee7e2 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/preterism/page/7/#post-118929 Sat, 24 Jan 2009 12:48:47 +1300 BT & Rabshecka… Greetings!Okay, then, let’s try this again. First, we can take BT’s question and see what we can come up with from Scripture to aid us in finding a plausible answer:“My question to is when will the power of the holy people be broken?”This question stems from the following Scripture:Daniel 12:6-7 (New American Standard Bible)“An…[Read more]

]]> 8b0a0114d1fa47d279bae771058dd83c http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/preterism/page/7/#post-118840 Fri, 23 Jan 2009 11:21:14 +1300 Rabsheka & BT… Greetings!What seems to be staying off the topic of the Olivet Discourse is not as it appears. Did we not agree that in order to discover truth that we had to consider both the Old and New Testament and compare what Prophet and Apostles had as their understanding of any particular subject? God’s Word is truth! The answers to all…[Read more]

]]> cbcfb782d463700cd055abf398b286f6 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/preterism/page/6/#post-118676 Thu, 22 Jan 2009 11:31:22 +1300 BT… Greetings!As you are aware, there are symbolic representations (metaphors) used extensively throughout the Scriptures. The trick is to be able to discern what the reality is behind the metaphor. You mention: “When phrasing the time of the end we are suggesting the end of this earth and universe to boot. If earth is going to be destroyed how…[Read more]

]]> 13f2e17a1230db956a7822e0573c464f http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/preterism/page/6/#post-118579 Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:22:36 +1300 BT… Greetings!Yes, as you say, we must take into consideration what the Old Testament has to say if we are to understand the view of the contemporary audience. However, we also have to consider the way the First Century Apostles connected things together, seeing they were mostly Jews and had a working knowledge of Old Testament prophecies and h…[Read more]

]]> d8f69061b9a40b9391f435c10de3a7cf http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/preterism/page/6/#post-118419 Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:42:44 +1300 BT… Greetings!There is very little doubt that Luke 21:10-24 applied to 70CE. As I have mentioned before, and acknowledge again, First Century Israelites paid dearly for their sins against God Almighty. This point was driven home by Jesus when He detailed what would occur and why in the Parable of the Landowner. (Matthew 21:33-41)That being s…[Read more]

]]> 36108ff78b3fa8a6c19ae25cb8efaca2 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/preterism/page/6/#post-118267 Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:28:58 +1300 Rabsheka… Greetings!I knew a little of what you wrote, but not all that much. Thank you for the update.It appears, then, that we have to now consider when “nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom” fits into a timeframe in history. Nations have been battling each other for world supremacy since nations existed, as I see it.…[Read more]

]]> db7708b4e91ae9e9de009c837deae937 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/preterism/page/6/#post-118260 Mon, 19 Jan 2009 12:57:51 +1300 Rabsheka… Greetings!I went into the internet and dug around Roman history but found little of any wars being waged during the period in question, aside from the Civil Unrest with the Jews. Some things I picked up may be of interest so I have included then for your consideration. They are as follows:JudaismWhile Judaism was largely tolerated,…[Read more]

]]> 27a597a100a75ea698886cf15da26df4 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/preterism/page/6/#post-118259 Mon, 19 Jan 2009 12:09:58 +1300 Rabsheka… Greetings!The establishing of truth must be located somewhere betwixt Scripture and History; however, since we are dealing with ancient history, where records are either lost or distorted (or never recorded at all) is a daunting challenge facing all truth-seekers.I may try to dig through the Netscape to find any information detailing R…[Read more]

]]> b667ad7e9fbf44c68d17a5f3043bf2df http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/preterism/page/6/#post-118220 Mon, 19 Jan 2009 02:01:00 +1300 BT… Greetings!Seeing that verse 6 ties into both 7 & 8, let’s try to reason along these lines and see what makes Scriptural and logical sense.Matthew 24:6-8 (New American Standard Bible)“You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. For nation will…[Read more]

]]> 677a9c13735431111edd2eff09a7f5f8 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/preterism/page/5/#post-118199 Sun, 18 Jan 2009 20:25:29 +1300 BT… Greetings!I understand your referenced meaning from Strong's but the trip up seems to me associated with the “all nations” part. It may well have been an error made in translating and given the wrong “world” that is confusing the understanding of Jesus' words. Time is short for this afternoon, but I'll try to get back at this later today.…[Read more]

]]> 2556479b47ba3dcd0f93290996f32ddd http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/preterism/page/5/#post-118163 Sun, 18 Jan 2009 12:44:32 +1300 BT… Greetings!I don’t quite follow your use of the phrase “Jewish Economy” as directly connected to the Answer Jesus gave regarding the temple’s destruction. The reason being that Jesus spoke about the end of the spiritual system, in particular, the close of God’s Kingdom representatives in the hands of Israelites. As the Scripture says:Matthe…[Read more]

]]> 76fabbded000e63e06a1016934718798 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/preterism/page/5/#post-118161 Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:52:41 +1300 Rabsheka… Greetings!Your consideration of events leading to the questions of Jesus’ Apostles seems right on target, especially your connecting the old “temple” of Herod with the new spiritual temple that replaced the physical one. As the Apostle Paul said, rather than the old Levite priesthood of the Mosaic covenant having the respons…[Read more]

]]> 2b79f6576fe7639aef75616587e9c9e7 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/preterism/page/5/#post-118029 Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:42:29 +1300 BT… Greetings!Your Suggestion:“It may possibly be interesting as a substitute of going back and forth on so many different subjects to go through the Olivet discourse in Matthew 24:1-34, the foundation of preterism, taking a few scriptures at a time starting with verses 1-3 first. And by doing so staying focused on those scriptures only, yet com…[Read more]

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