Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 24 2011,21:14)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2011,19:34)Two are already established in 1:1b and there is no need of adding the 'a/an' because there aren't others.Two WHAT?Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2011,19:34)Jesus is God as the only begotten God…very God of/from very God, not a god as you want to insist. See?  Your answer…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 24 2011,17:22)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2011,17:11)Ok Keith, I thought that is what was meant.  So the 'everything' pertains to nature only, right?KathiHi KathiNature, qualities, attributes, being, essence, substance, Yes.The essence of God (or that which distinguishes God from creation) is “Eternal”.Jesus is “…the…[Read more]

So Roo,From what you write, you do not accept the Nicene Creed in its fullness, right? I thought all trinitarians accept the Nicene Creed in its fullness.Are you going to vote?Kathi

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 24 2011,19:11)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2011,23:17)Regarding this:Quote “In the beginning was Cain, and Cain was with Adam, and Cain was Adam.”Uggg! Is this going to go on and on because this is not a perfect comparison It's not “PERFECT”?    What a cop out!  I was hoping you'd be willing to acknowledge what this ex…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 24 2011,17:22)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2011,17:11)Ok Keith, I thought that is what was meant.  So the 'everything' pertains to nature only, right?KathiHi KathiNature, qualities, attributes, being, essence, substance, Yes.The essence of God (or that which distinguishes God from creation) is “Eternal”.Jesus is “…the…[Read more]

Ok Keith, I thought that is what was meant. So the 'everything' pertains to nature only, right?Kathi

Quote (Baker @ Mar. 24 2011,14:24)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2011,15:24)Irene,I wasn't upset with you, I just wanted this topic to reflect the thoughts of the ante-Nicene church fathers.  I wanted to keep it separate from the members opinions.  See?Sorry if you felt bad about it,KathiHi Kathie!  No, I really did not feel all that bad about it, an…[Read more]

Hi Keith,You said in the post above this:Quote Therefore it leaves us with “theos” in 1:1c as being qualitative, meaning “EVERYTHING” that God was the Word was”.Was the theos in 1:1b the Heavenly Father?If He was, then according to your statement that would make the Word the Heavenly Father also.I don't think that 'theos' in 1:1c means…[Read more]

Hi Keith,I get what you are asking. I would say that the Son was begotten at some time during eternity. I hesitate to use the word procreate because it has more than one meaning and has led to confusion. Let me ask another question…If the Son was begotten at some time during eternity, was He in existence in some pre-begotten form eternally…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 24 2011,09:51)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2011,00:17)Quote “In the beginning was Cain, and Cain was with Adam, and Cain was Adam.”Uggg! Is this going to go on and on because this is not a perfect comparison because the word 'adam' is not the english word for man and this sentence is an English translation, also, the…[Read more]

I can't vote here…my choice is missing:I am the brother/sister of the almighty Son of GodorI am the son of God the Father Almighty, not His brother/sister.Those would be my choices (and I am not ALWAYS this difficult )And yes, I believe in an almighty heavenly Father and an almighty heavenly Son.So, sorry I can't vote in your poll, Mike.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 23 2011,23:55)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2011,22:18)Saying that 'John was man' speaks more to his nature than 'John was a man' although both could mean the same thing.  That is what I perceive anyway.But either way, adding the “a” wouldn't add “confusion, like you said, right?  If so, how?Mike,Enough with all these u…[Read more]

Mike,I understand what you are saying but I think people look at the typical translation thinking that Jesus is divine and that the book of John shows the 'divinity' of Christ. It is my impression that people in general see the book of John proclaiming the divinity of Christ, not that He is the same person that He is with in verse 1:1b. I don't…[Read more]

Irene,I wasn't upset with you, I just wanted this topic to reflect the thoughts of the ante-Nicene church fathers. I wanted to keep it separate from the members opinions. See?Sorry if you felt bad about it,Kathi

Mike,Saying that 'John was man' speaks more to his nature than 'John was a man' although both could mean the same thing. That is what I perceive anyway.I do think that taking out the definite article in 1b is not as clear as putting it in. I don't know why it is left out of the translations…it is in the Greek.Kathi

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 23 2011,18:54)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 22 2011,22:32)Mike, The verse includes 1:1b with 1:1c to make that distinction.If we changed the word 'God' to man it would read:In the beginning was the word, and the word was with the man, and the word was man.  You don't need an 'a' or a 'the' in the 'c' part of the verse.Okay,…[Read more]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Mar. 23 2011,01:39)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 23 2011,09:32)Mike, The verse includes 1:1b with 1:1c to make that distinction.If we changed the word 'God' to man it would read:In the beginning was the word, and the word was with the man, and the word was man.  You don't need an 'a' or a 'the' in the 'c' part of the…[Read more]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 23 2011,12:59)Kathi said:Quote Mike, Mike, Mike,Looking at your question more closely, you are asking what your quoted 'experts' say about the 'a' being grammatically possible and not my opinion.  Obviously, they say that it is…so yes, the 'experts' you quoted say that it is grammatically possible. Mike…[Read more]

Mike, The verse includes 1:1b with 1:1c to make that distinction.If we changed the word 'God' to man it would read:In the beginning was the word, and the word was with the man, and the word was man. You don't need an 'a' or a 'the' in the 'c' part of the verse.

Yes, Mike, I see that the words 'only begotten' and 'unbegotten' are not in John 1:1. The words 'only begotten' are written 17 verses later in the same chapter bu the same author when referring to two different persons called 'theos.' Do you believe that the Father is 'unbegotten?' I think that is obvious otherwise, He would come from…[Read more]