https://heavennet.net/members/Kyle/activity/ Activity feed for Kyle. Fri, 24 Apr 2026 06:36:29 +1200 https://buddypress.org/?v= en-US 30 hourly 2 a8d0daf5aef722c5b96a2ee126234236 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/john-118/#post-51612 Mon, 07 May 2007 22:28:09 +1200 Thanks for all the info. I expected that the King James had a more correct reading of that verse. It just seemed weird to me that there would be such an obvious addition still in print. But then again, 1st John 5:7 is still firmly planted in the King James, and that's even worse.

]]> 55f95e38b7bf8180fe64bc756f0d5a67 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/john-118/ Mon, 07 May 2007 08:26:55 +1200 I pretty much always use the King James version, occasionally checking others to see how they translate a particular verse. While reading John 1 recently, verse 18 stuck out in particular as it seemed create a very definite distinction between God and Christ. It happened to stick out to my girl too. I was talking to her today and couldn’t remember…[Read more]

]]> 7696015066269923e545acea7e716046 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/trinity-is-118s-proof-text-2/#post-51573 Mon, 07 May 2007 08:03:33 +1200 I find this quite interesting. T8's view of this verse troubles me a bit. I don't see how it's grammatically impossible for it to refer to YHWH as the one being pierced. That seems to me to be the most plain understanding of this scripture. It does seem a bit odd that the one speaking would say “me” and then “him”, but take John 17:3 for…[Read more]

]]> 2c76ac9abfa4405e29b2697994e64fdf http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/trinity-t8s-proof-text-2/page/7/#post-50530 Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:07:05 +1200 Tim's got a point. Tradition isn't always bad, just blindly following false tradition. Every culture is deeply rooted in tradition of every kind. We all follow all kinds of traditions and break many others. We just need to recognize tradition for what it is, just tradition.

]]> c9cc69a6f9b7895ae1b73bd8c0ac7470 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/11/#post-50291 Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:28:21 +1200 Good question, Nick. Most would say another one, some would say Satan, and about twelve million (relatively very few) would say Christ. So the vast majority of the world would vote that Christ has no part of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, but we all know that already.

]]> 20884c201ef6571415fae38217a40bf9 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/11/#post-50285 Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:46:01 +1200 Ha ha. You know it, Nick. Can't get in the door without your card and your secret password 😉

]]> 4a7e96914622dab84c580408bb6b86c7 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/11/#post-50272 Mon, 23 Apr 2007 21:51:57 +1200 Yep.

]]> 0257c9f4b8d9c3acce9c05855de61b36 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/11/#post-50230 Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:02:06 +1200 Yeah, there are a number of groups that technically fall under the name of “Mormon”. All of them trace their history back to the same roots. The LDS church is by far the largest, and most (but not all) would agree that the others are better classified as splinter groups that peeled off the main church. I don't know all of the names, but they…[Read more]

]]> 90891046eb90f61d139e3e53ee37fec7 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/10/#post-50122 Sun, 22 Apr 2007 08:54:57 +1200 Those encyclopedias confuse me too, because I was never taught any form of a triune god. I would guess that most Mormons would think you were crazy if you accused them of believing that the three members of the Godhead sometimes act together as one “entity”. But I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. Doesn't seem like so many credible outside sources…[Read more]

]]> 2b9de2c2e0f6d03f7f49171f4a405f6c http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/trinity-t8s-proof-text-1/page/28/#post-49097 Sun, 15 Apr 2007 07:38:00 +1200 Sounds fair. Twelve is quite a large amount for something like this. I was thinking it would take way too long when things first changed from three (six total) to twelve (24 total). I definitely look forward to your post.Would you be against someone else continuing in your place, Isaiah? Perhaps WJ would be a good candidate if he's got the…[Read more]

]]> 627fdcdbfa3eab9d67b66f76286d42c7 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/psalm-27/page/2/#post-49091 Sun, 15 Apr 2007 06:23:53 +1200 That's cool, no big deal. That just seems to be the nature of these discussions. Besides, this one seems to be going places most of them don't.

]]> 53ac508c6384bf3d17ccdced0ad80c67 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/trinity-t8s-proof-text-1/page/27/#post-49086 Sun, 15 Apr 2007 05:51:41 +1200 Give him a break, Isaiah. Nobody's perfect. He obviously must have been quite busy with other things in his life, and didn't spend hour upon unfair hour researching his response. He did the best he could. I could see saying it's over if he ends up days late for every thread, but this is only the first strike. Lets give him another chance,…[Read more]

]]> 27686b8d0d8df3f0215f623a4f965a84 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/psalm-27/#post-49014 Sat, 14 Apr 2007 23:44:57 +1200 I noticed that too, Isaiah. Growing up (before I had really studied this stuff out in detail on my own) what I knew was that there was God the Eternal Father, his Son Jesus Christ, and also the Holy Ghost. So when I first heard the idea of these three being “mashed” together into one person or being without body, parts, or passions for some…[Read more]

]]> 04867e435b720e067deeb78b6b537a8a http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/psalm-27/#post-48994 Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:21:16 +1200 Thanks for the replies. That's kind of what I've been expecting to hear from some people, Tim. While I get the concept, I definitely have a hard time understanding why that's the best and most simple way to look at scripture. I'm sure you do to ;-)Anyway, I look forward to more replys. I'd especially like to hear any thoughts on if this verse…[Read more]

]]> 5952b4a358a3e864bc6092e9354f587e http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/fully-god-fully-man/page/4/#post-48129 Mon, 09 Apr 2007 06:05:05 +1200 Quote (david @ April 08 2007,13:18)And I assume no one will ever answer those questions.I sure hope you're wrong!

]]> 332686a0fd672fd5748c64fe47694371 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/fully-god-fully-man/page/4/#post-48009 Sun, 08 Apr 2007 08:24:56 +1200 Personally, I'd love to hear some other interpretations of those scriptures. The way WIT sees them is pretty staight forward, and I'm sure anyone can understand why he looks at them that way (even if you don't agree). But it'd be awesome to see some different interpretations.I really don't think WIT meant to say that Jesus is weak and powerless.…[Read more]

]]> 558f8b82d96a094304fcc83ddd2354a2 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/trinity-t8s-proof-text-1/page/14/#post-46792 Thu, 29 Mar 2007 08:51:14 +1200 Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 28 2007,23:57)I AM with the bible and scriptures. Also I forgot to mention that I AM an openminded person.And she's also God! She said it not once, but twice!*don't get mad anyone, I'm just joking around here 😉

]]> a9c221c796ceb6c2d588d383c2353779 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/there-is-no-such-thing-as-a-believer/#post-46144 Mon, 26 Mar 2007 02:36:29 +1200 Are you saying that believers are more justified in making that jump from knowlege to belief? Because they have prayer and the Holy Ghost helping them along, whereas an atheist's belief that God doesn't exist is completely dependant on knowelge?If that's what you're saying then I get the point and I see the difference. But I still think it's a…[Read more]

]]> 758d0649727fea5b8794552e2ea9c84c http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/heb-1-10-and-ps-102/#post-45959 Sat, 24 Mar 2007 09:49:09 +1200 I found that interesting as well, Phoenix. I never knew that God called his son by that title. Although, I think most would agree that Christ is the creator. Scripture is pretty clear that God created the worlds through his son.

]]> 3a7bb4f45f92359257b58cced61ce4e9 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/heb-1-10-and-ps-102/#post-45957 Sat, 24 Mar 2007 09:42:56 +1200 Ha ha. I'm definitely inclined to agree with you, Nick. I just wanted to point out that Isaiah isn't saying those verses apply only to the Father or only to the Son. His way of thinking asigns them to both, making them both God. Use of common logic would obviously go against this, but it seems to me that logic needs to be thrown out the window…[Read more]

]]> 144d33e7a073366de30e8aa497227bbe http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/heb-1-10-and-ps-102/#post-45954 Sat, 24 Mar 2007 08:57:48 +1200 I don't think he's saying that they apply only to the Son, but to both. The idea is that that makes them both the one true God.

]]> 5383bb16f4247a116b90a238d7629aab http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/trinity-t8s-proof-text-1/page/6/#post-46673 Sat, 24 Mar 2007 05:19:41 +1200 What are you talking about, Nick?I think they raise a good point that should at least be delt with fairly. Jesus seems to be prayed to in 2nd Corinthians. What exactly are the implications of this?

]]> 85e6fa44562f837070947eb179b5b391 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/10/#post-45436 Mon, 19 Mar 2007 04:26:26 +1200 Exactly. Those in the church believe they do have true priesthood authority from God. I'm not saying they do, but that explains why the laying on of hands and other things involving the priesthood are done.

]]> 4a2fdbb822e3825bed6090e51ad4e5a3 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/10/#post-45425 Mon, 19 Mar 2007 04:02:53 +1200 The reason I said I recieved the gift of the Holy Ghost right afterwards is that that's actually a separate ordinance in the LDS church. It's usually given as a blessing with the laying on of hands, typically shortly after baptism (after drying off and changing of course). I honestly don't know if I really did recieve the Holy Ghost or if my…[Read more]

]]> 1820c745078ed6600fc633c79d5a04da http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/10/#post-45413 Mon, 19 Mar 2007 03:29:26 +1200 Looking at all sides, why aren't more people recorded as calling Christ their God? Also, how can we be sure which instances people are speaking with a deeper meaning? Because you could take this all the way and say that Thomas wasn't really saying Christ was his Lord either, but that he was just refering to the Father Christ was representing.…[Read more]

]]> 9fdf74c137677767915df8509aa039af http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/10/#post-45409 Mon, 19 Mar 2007 03:16:32 +1200 Progress is going alright. Still looking mostly at the nature and character of God, and I'm almost halfway through the book I'm reading on the Arian controversy and resulting council of Nicaea.An interesting thought occured to me the other night. I was thinking about how angels and messengers of God are often referred to as God. I thought it…[Read more]

]]> 354db82df09f051aaa80847956506ca1 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/9/#post-44687 Tue, 13 Mar 2007 05:40:05 +1300 Completely agree, Nick.

]]> 1bdc66c62e0fec62a2781069dca29298 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/9/#post-44684 Tue, 13 Mar 2007 04:16:31 +1300 Good question. I don't have an answer for you.

]]> 6f3dc9553c8a46ea40f4886514fbd27b http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/9/#post-44680 Tue, 13 Mar 2007 03:59:52 +1300 I was baptized when I was about 9. I was pretty young and quite a different person then, but it was my decision. The baptism was by full immersion and I recieved the gift of the Holy Ghost right afterwards.

]]> 4e0d49123d15801d8f9d230fbd677876 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/9/#post-44677 Tue, 13 Mar 2007 03:35:59 +1300 Good idea, t8. I think it's important for me to point out right now that members of the LDS faith generally aren't as “works dependant” as some seem to think. The fourth article of faith states, “We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance…” This means that…[Read more]

]]> 309e308ce29083cee52e29bd288026af http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/9/#post-44549 Mon, 12 Mar 2007 02:18:08 +1300 I hadn't thought of it that way, Nick. But that sounds more like Tritheism to me than Trinitarianism. I guess the question I would have is what the term “fully divine” means. Would an angel or holy messenger be thought of as fully divine or just partially? As far as I know, I never met a person who worshiped Christ as anything more than the…[Read more]

]]> 3b4c15dd725d4e1ced40321c98497385 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/8/#post-44511 Sun, 11 Mar 2007 11:12:37 +1300 Hmm. That could be true, Tim. I didn't consider the possibility of Nick just trying to get through to anyone reading in general. But if that is the case, I felt it was gone about in completely the wrong way.

]]> 3bfc784e972a6220e4a0eeaefe166118 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/8/#post-44509 Sun, 11 Mar 2007 10:28:15 +1300 Oh! I completely forgot. There is a small statement of faith very commonly held in the church. It's a small document or creed outlined around the time when the church was founded. It's called The Articles of Faith. I'll past it below for anyone that's curious. I would say these are the beliefs that unify those in the church more than any…[Read more]

]]> 6a2cae6cca0a0c48727dac094f23213d http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/8/#post-44507 Sun, 11 Mar 2007 10:09:44 +1300 Yeah, that quote confused me too. Just as Mormon 7:7 did when I first found it. If they do, then I was never aware of it. God was always referred to as our Heavenly Father, and Christ as his Son. If at all possible, I'd love to get a link to the page he quoted from. Anyway, all I know is that I and those I went to church with never declared…[Read more]

]]> f73c5db4972c098a57759f7fee0879bc http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/8/#post-44481 Sun, 11 Mar 2007 09:03:20 +1300 Thanks for the support, t8. But actually, anybody can feel free to ask all the questions they want. That's the whole reason I started posting here. I have 100% confidence that answering questions about a group of people I grew up around won't stop me from moving on or seeking out truth. I'm many months into my search and will contine to do…[Read more]

]]> f458c1418b85dd0594ffc01bdfc3daae http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/7/#post-44469 Sun, 11 Mar 2007 08:18:58 +1300 Exactly, Phoenix. Everyone else has been quite respectful to me and seems to get what I'm trying to say. Nick has seemed very much of an arguer thus far. The “I'm right, your're wrong” mentality I described on page seven. The funny part is that he doesn't even seem to get that I'm not trying to defend the LDS church. What's wrong with a…[Read more]

]]> 0dc6bec4d1acb8167153119f5e8f117a http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/7/#post-44464 Sun, 11 Mar 2007 07:48:23 +1300 Holy crap, Nick. I keep saying over and over that I really don't want people jumping all over my case about things I don't even believe in in the first place. All I wanted to do was provide you guys with an inside look of the LDS view point. I know because I grew up around these people, and know more or less how they think and act. I can't…[Read more]

]]> 82b362e0bf2ab3274913cfc26879e8a9 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/7/#post-44362 Sat, 10 Mar 2007 09:30:54 +1300 The time actually preaching the gospel varies from day to day. It all depends on how many doors don't get slammed, and how many discussions with non-members they have planned for the day. But I can assure you that they're preaching as much and in as many ways as they can. That is, afterall, the purpose of being there.A member of the church…[Read more]

]]> 17388f273f8fd19e2f3c5d24c0d7c57a http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/7/#post-44355 Sat, 10 Mar 2007 08:44:23 +1300 It sure does. If you're a member of the chruch then you believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God. Even if you don't, they do. So they would call it scripture and study it right along side bible. Even cross-referencing between the two books. It's definitely understandable why so many would find this hard to accept, regardless of…[Read more]

]]> a509f866f4a9024bb2e0cd0153ccc661 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/6/#post-44349 Sat, 10 Mar 2007 08:01:16 +1300 It's pretty dang intense. Every part of their day is scheduled in some form or another. I think 6:30 wake up to 10:30 in bed is pretty typical. Each day starts off with two or three hours of scripture study – half personal and half with their companion. Other parts of the day are broken up between getting ready, eating, working out, knocking…[Read more]

]]> 44ae6f3172300737ae3d26c7349ed358 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/6/#post-44340 Sat, 10 Mar 2007 06:33:02 +1300 I never said that. I've been trying to affirm the opposite so people wouldn't jump all over my case about things I don't believe. I started to study and build my faith from scratch sometime last year. In doing so I became free to consider all angles and points of view with an open mind. Thus far I've really only began to establish what the…[Read more]

]]> acb87845cbdb511a73d87077b3a53b0a http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/6/#post-44337 Sat, 10 Mar 2007 06:21:15 +1300 Is there a way to edit or delete posts? I noticed a typo in the last sentence of the first paragraph of my last post. Here's the correct sentence:”Some would argue that the Bible never explicitly states that God will never reveal his word at different times through different men.”

]]> 41fed963512bb69b5dc488c70b32215b http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/6/#post-44333 Sat, 10 Mar 2007 06:14:18 +1300 I think the reason a lot of people choose to believe in it is that they see no reason why something like it can't exist. They would say that it makes total sense for God to deal with different people at different times in history. Some would argue that the Bible never explicitly states that God will reveal his word at different times through…[Read more]

]]> 9ea529f771bbb57693f9e8af62a2574d http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/6/#post-44325 Sat, 10 Mar 2007 03:31:49 +1300 That's strickly a matter of opinion, Nick. I've met and known many, many people who find the Book of Mormon to be every bit as beautiful and plain to read as the Bible. And I'm certain there are many more in the world that would agree with you, saying they found nothing but confusion there. I personally don't see what's so eratic and cofusing…[Read more]

]]> 1b447c3fec5d6483097981998d9656d7 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/6/#post-44320 Sat, 10 Mar 2007 03:10:15 +1300 Totally, t8. I won't ever attempt to defend anyone but myself in this regard. And even then, nothing is set in stone. You have to keep an open mind and admit good points that are contrary to your current opinion when you hear them. Just keep in mind that I have very little opinion either way of the LDS church right now.Good question, Nick. I…[Read more]

]]> a3a52213ad047c0b2cc05a79fcb4e631 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/6/#post-44273 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 12:19:30 +1300 Alright you two. Lets stop arguing and getting off topic. Now to the questions:If what is said in that quote from wikipedia is true, I wasn't ever aware of it. I and my peers never thought of anybody as God but our Heavenly Father. Christ definitely seemed to be worshiped as a divine being, but certainly not as God. Again, the Godhead is a…[Read more]

]]> 5078a7a17e92db58d49347426cc448a2 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/5/#post-44227 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 04:10:52 +1300 I have no stance on The Book of Mormon right now. I didn't get that far before I changed my idea of how to go about this. Right now I'm in a much more foundational stage of exploration. I feel it would be best to hold off on anything church related for the time being. I'd rather keep things in order so to speak. I'm aware of various reasons…[Read more]

]]> b5c0162787d0bb32e5c5de3f0bc52ac1 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/5/#post-44226 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 04:04:36 +1300 Almost forgot, t8. You're right, the LDS church doesn't hold a trinitarian belief in the slightest. Growing up I never really understood what the Trinity was or why lots of people believed in it. It was never a topic that was addressed by myself of anyone else in church. All I knew was that God is our Heavenly Father who we pray to, Christ is…[Read more]

]]> a89e0243c2e170e442cea815de6e3177 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/5/#post-44222 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 03:46:23 +1300 Don't worry, Nick. I'm not trying to understand or deny that at all. That's why I wrote about how I was trapped in that mind frame for awhile, but broke free. I truely am starting from scratch. If my search leads me to the church I grew up in, good. If not, that's good too. But I'm nowhere near that point just yet.

]]> 6d4e34cdfb2b96912af00ea29724fa12 http://www.heavennet.net/forums/topic/mormons-are-christians/page/5/#post-44208 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 02:49:02 +1300 Hey guys. I've been lurking around the Trinity thread for a while now, and I just found this one. I was raised LDS, so I'm sure I could answer a few of your questions.I always believed the church was true growing up because I really had no reason not to. But I was just kind of drifting along in my faith for years without any real knowledge or…[Read more]

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