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Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 19 2012,04:16) edj You do know the word “WHAT” means you are asking a question; right?
sorry it should be THAT
Oh, OK.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 18 2012,11:09) The only reasons Preexistences want us to believe there are other “lesser” Gods is to force their belief of Jesus' preexistence as a “Lesser” GOD to GOD the Father existing in the Past with HIM>
Gene,Jehovah Himself foretold that Jesus would be called a mighty god. Jehovah Himself called Satan the god of Ekron.
You have the stigma I mentioned in my last post.
Gene, how do YOU define “god”?
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 18 2012,20:28) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 18 2012,19:41) Hi Ed,
Is Lord Jesus Christ not your king under God?
Lk 19.27
Hi Nick, interesting, Mike has two God's and you have two kings? …anybody for two “Lords”?My answer's the same for all three, and here it is…
First: [יהוה] YÄ-hä-vā translates directly into The English as YHVH. (AKJV Bible: JEHOVAH)
Secondly: [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă translates directly into English as Joshua. (AKJV Bible: Jesus)[אדני] Âdônây in Hebrew means: “Lord” or “Owner” and is akin to
[Κύριος] kü-rē-ŏs in Greek meaning “The Same”: “Lord”/ “Owner”“You” cannot argue with this “Bible Truth”! (LORD: means Owner)
I will orchestrate my explanation around the term “Owner”.
The AKJV Bible uses: Lord for [יהשוע] and LORD for [יהוה].The Trinitarians do say: Jesus is “The Owner”.
The non-Trinitarians then reply: Jesus is NOT
“The Owner”, Jesus' Father is “The Owner”!A Closer Examination
Technically Jesus is: “owner” but NOT “THE OWNER”!
This can be clearly seen and understood using the word “Owner”!Jehovah is “The Owner” and Jesus is The Son of “The Owner”.
Jehovah CANNOT DIE, so Jehovah will ALWAYS remain “The Owner”!
A Son can 'only' become become fully “The Owner” if the Parent dies,
which in JEHOVAH's case cannot happen; because GOD CANNOT DIE!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi ED,
Thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven. The kingdom of earth belongs to God. But since by man came death and destruction by a son of man all things will be restored.The Son of Man is GIVEN Kingship over earth. Likewise his brothers reign with him, under him, till the 1000 year reign ends and King Jesus hands sovereignty back to God.
Can a branch be useful cut off the vine? Jesus Christ is that vine. You cannot bypass the mediator.
Do you love God? if you do you will kiss the Son.[ps2]. Those who refuse his reign are warned in Lk 18.
The church is the body of Christ and all need to find a place and role in that body serving the head and thus his God. God works in unity with and through his Son but he demands we accept the role given to His son.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 19 2012,02:29) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 18 2012,02:08) But as Ed said and 1 Tim 6.15 shows, his God is the ultimate King.
Hi NickPerhaps your “king” discussion with Ed will help me explain to you that Jesus is a “lessor god”.
You seem to be able to accept that God is the “Ultimate King”, although there have been many lesser kings under Him. For example, David was King of Israel at the same time God was the Ultimate King of Israel. We could easily say that God is the “only true King” of Israel – meaning He is above any other king. That would not make David, His anointed, a “false king”, or a “so-called king”. It would merely emphasize that although David was also truly a King of Israel, God was still over him as the Ultimate King of Israel.
Or we could say that Israel has but ONE King, and there are no others. Again, this would not make David just disappear from history. Instead, it would be an emphatic way of declaring the Ultimacy of Jehovah' Kingship.
This is the same concept with the God of gods, and all the other gods He is the God of. Although there be many gods and lords, both in heaven and on earth, Jehovah is the Ultimate God and the Ultimate Lord. That doesn't make the other gods “false gods” or “so-called gods”. It merely emphasizes that, although these other gods do exist, Jehovah is over them all as the Ultimate God.
I think much of the problem (or stigma) results from our current, commonly accepted definition of “god”. Today, we understand the word “god” to be defining “The One Omniscient Creator of All Things” – and no one else. But that is never what the word meant in OT or NT times. The words “el” and “theos” referred to any one of many “mighty ones”, or “ones to be feared/revered”.
Even Deborah was a god, because she was the mighty leader of the nation of Israel. With God's help, she defeated the Canaanites, causing her to be a “mighty one”, or “one to be feared/revered”. No one in those days assumed that because she was a god that she was also “The One Omniscient Creator of All Things”. But today, if I were to called Deborah a god, everyone would be shouting at me, assuming I was calling her “The One Omniscient Creator of All Things”.
So, to truly understand the scriptures, one must “time travel” a little bit, and try to understand the words as they were meant THEN, as opposed to whatever they might mean to most people TODAY. One cannot sensibly say with today's understanding, “Satan is not a god, because he is not The One Omniscient Creator of All Things.” That would be to apply today's definition of “god” to a time in history when that definition simply didn't exist. After doing such a careless thing, we must then try to twist many scriptures to make them conform to the way we today understand the word “god”. And doing that causes us to have a twisted understanding of what the scriptures truly teach. We are then, in effect, doctoring the written word of God – trying to make it conform to our current definition of the word “god”.
People, there is and always has been but ONE Almighty Creator of All Things. But, as God's own written word attests, many of those created by that One are also “mighty ones”, or “ones to be feared/revered”, and therefore “gods”.
So yes, Satan IS a “lesser god”, who is not The Omniscient Creator of All Things. And Jesus, although also not being The Omniscient Creator of All Things, is also truly a god. These are but two of the many gods Jehovah is the God of.
If any of you cannot accept this teaching, then at least accept that it is scriptural. Accept that when I adhere to the scriptures and the meaning of “god” therein, I am not being a pagan who is inventing many gods to worship. I am not inventing “lesser gods” or “little gods” out of my own imagination, but instead speaking exactly according to the scriptures, using the Bible writers' definition of “god”, instead of the commonly accepted definition of today.
Remember that the titles “God of gods”, “God Most High”, and “God Almighty” would carry no meaning whatsoever had there not existed other lesser gods for Jehovah to be the God of, Higher than, and Mightier than.
Hi MB,
I respect the effort put into this post and agree with much of what you say except when you say that Jesus was a lesser god.The Word WAS God.
Now the Word IS the Son of God.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 19 2012,04:36) Hi ED,
Thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven.
Hi Nick,Did Jesus say this before Pentecost?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgMike…………So it seems we have a dilemma in scriptures, a contradiction if you will, Now on MY Side is GOD HIMSELF, Who said He LOOKED for another GOD and FOUND NONE. if you would like i can quote those scriptures for YOU. And the WE have your scripture “MIGHTY GOD” which have been dealt with many time by many people and come to fine it simply should be translated as Might ONE and not Mighty GOD at all.
Now you have one and i have produced several in the posts above, Which agree with what Jesus also said and Paul, but the question is, why would you Just hang on to you mistranslated one, Mike, and completely “IGNORE” the Others, that would be the question Here what is Behind you stance is it not that you are desperately trying to hold on to you Jesus “PREEXISTENCE” Theology.
Peace and love………………………………………gene
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 18 2012,20:28) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 18 2012,19:41) Hi Ed,
Is Lord Jesus Christ not your king under God?
Lk 19.27
Hi Nick, interesting, Mike has two God's and you have two kings? …anybody for two “Lords”?My answer's the same for all three, and here it is…
First: [יהוה] YÄ-hä-vā translates directly into The English as YHVH. (AKJV Bible: JEHOVAH)
Secondly: [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă translates directly into English as Joshua. (AKJV Bible: Jesus)[אדני] Âdônây in Hebrew means: “Lord” or “Owner” and is akin to
[Κύριος] kü-rē-ŏs in Greek meaning “The Same”: “Lord”/ “Owner”“You” cannot argue with this “Bible Truth”! (LORD: means Owner)
I will orchestrate my explanation around the term “Owner”.
The AKJV Bible uses: Lord for [יהשוע] and LORD for [יהוה].The Trinitarians do say: Jesus is “The Owner”.
The non-Trinitarians then reply: Jesus is NOT
“The Owner”, Jesus' Father is “The Owner”!A Closer Examination
Technically Jesus is: “owner” but NOT “THE OWNER”!
This can be clearly seen and understood using the word “Owner”!Jehovah is “The Owner” and Jesus is The Son of “The Owner”.
Jehovah CANNOT DIE, so Jehovah will ALWAYS remain “The Owner”!
A Son can 'only' become become fully “The Owner” if the Parent dies,
which in JEHOVAH's case cannot happen; because GOD CANNOT DIE!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi ED,
Only two kings?Even now there are hundreds of Kings on earth but none is a king of kings.
A heavenly kingdom that is an earthly kingdom was established by God 2000 years ago when King Jesus rode on the donkey into Jerusalem. His appointment by God is as king of kings and lord of lords. All authority has been given to him even in heaven[mt 28].
His reign on earth has been slowly and secretly established and his obedient and meek servants appointed and when complete his return to earth will see him take up that role visibly for 1000 years.
His brothers will rise to be with him and rule with him till restoration is complete and all things are brought under his command, even death.
Then he will hand the kingdom back to his Father.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 18 2012,11:52) And the WE have your scripture “MIGHTY GOD” which have been dealt with many time by many people and come to fine it simply should be translated as Might ONE and not Mighty GOD at all.
How did you (or whoever) come to that conclusion, Gene? The Hebrew word is “el”, which is the word they also call Jehovah – the word we translate into English as “god”.Nor is this the only scripture. Here's another of them:
Psalm 82:1
God stands in the assembly of gods; in the midst of the gods he renders judgment.Do you suppose Jehovah congregates with “false gods” and “idols”?
Gene, there are MANY scriptures that teach about other gods. How can you even understand the title “God OF gods” without accepting there must be other gods that Jehovah is the God OF?
Anyway, I didn't see where you answered my question:
Gene, how do YOU define “god”?To All…………Jesus said if his Kingdom was of this earth His servants would fight, But his kingdom was not on this earth ever in his life time on earth. Jesus Has recieve His authority to establish his Kingdom on this earth and will when He returns. The kingdom of GOD is “Spiritual” and the Kingdom of Jesus will be a Physical Kingdom. Both combine into one Kingdom when Jesus at the end of his thousand year rule with the Saints, is over. The Saint are members of the KINGDOM Of GOD “NOW” and will rule with Jesus in (HIS) earthly Kingdom Soon to come IMO.
peace and love to you all……………………………………………………………..gene
Hi Gene,
So his kingdom is not of this earth,
but yet it is; is that what you're telling us?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 18 2012,11:18) Wrong. The Word wasn't made flesh until Jesus was born of Mary. Yet somehow, Paul says it was JESUS who was existing in the form of God before he was MADE INTO a human being. How did “JESUS” get into Paul's statement if “JESUS” wasn't really a part of the events described?
Let the scriptures teach you, Nick.
Mike,Never is Shaul [Paul] ever recorded in the so-called “New Testament” as saying “JESUS who was existing in the form of God before he was MADE INTO a human being.”
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 19 2012,04:51) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 19 2012,04:36) Hi ED,
Thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven.
Hi Nick,Did Jesus say this before Pentecost?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Ed,
Yes and the Spirit of Christ was sent to some at pentecost.
The fire was lit and the embers yet burn.But until the head returns the body will keen.
Maranatha Lord Jesus
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 19 2012,05:17) Gene and Nick, How do you define the word “god”?
Hi MB,
Would you take us for a walk through the darkness of theology?Scripture teaches by the Spirit.
Mike………..You ask how we would define the word GOD, I can give you my definition of the word , and will But now first give us YOUR Clouded one first. Then i will give you MINE> From the first meaning of the word GOD it self. I am Waiting?
peace and love………………………………………….gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 19 2012,05:45) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 19 2012,04:51) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 19 2012,04:36) Hi ED,
Thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven.
Hi Nick,Did Jesus say this before Pentecost?
God bless
Ed J
Hi Ed,
Yes and the Spirit of Christ was sent to some at pentecost.
The fire was lit and the embers yet burn.But until the head returns the body will keen.
Maranatha Lord Jesus
Hi Nick,Jer 14:8-9 O the hope of Israel, the saviour thereof in time of trouble, why shouldest thou be
as a stranger in the land, and as a wayfaring man that turneth aside to tarry for a night?
Why shouldest thou be as a man astonied, as a mighty man that cannot save?
yet thou, O LORD, art in the midst of us, and we are called by thy name; leave us not.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Mar. 19 2012,05:23) Hi Gene, So his kingdom is not of this earth,
but yet it is; is that what you're telling us?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi ED,
Yes the gospel of the KINGDOM is preached.Matthew called it the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN
Luke and Mark called it the KINGDOM OF GODThe kingdom was not of this world and Jesus spoke the truth.
Rev 12.19 says
” the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come”The anointed one moves in the authority of his God.
Kiss the SonHi Nick,
It's Jesus' Fathers Kingdom, thus YHVH is the “KING”!
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.org
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