Is Jesus the Logos?

This topic contains 1,635 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by  GeneBalthrop 11 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #802791
     t8 
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    I have no problem believing that Jesus laying his life down was known beforehand. After all, God created beings with free will, thus it was probably only a matter of time before some of those beings chose against God which he allowed for. And God is all knowing, thus he is not ignorant of this and had a plan for this.

    But that doesn’t mean that God created all things because Jesus was going to die on a cross. God created all things because he is love and love seeks to share that love with others.

    So creation is one thing and redemption another. Redemption is a way to stop creation from being fully corrupt and dying. It is a power of God that counters the corruption of evil as life overrides death and light overcomes darkness.

    God created all things for his son and through him. That is written. You believe that God created all things for him, but you do not seem to believe that God created all things through him, yet that is explicitly stated in scripture more than once. You are trying to convince me otherwise.

    #802792
     GeneBalthrop 
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    T8……you well know that the trinitarian belifs are not true, why can’t you stand back and try to see tgat many text were translated to make JESUS APPEAR AS A PAST EXISTING GOD OF SOME KIND. They apply powers to JESUS HE NEVER HAD. They have tweaked the text to favor their views, this started to take place right at the beginning, the deciple had to fight it continually and evensaid when they dies these false teachers would over take them.

    IF YOU COULD JUST SEE WHY IT IS SO IMPORTANT that Satan wants us to all be different the JESUS, IT WOUL TURN A HOLE NEW LIGHT on in your understanding. Satan does not want us to belueve Jesus was and is exactly as the rest of his brothers and sisters. Because h knows if we see him differently then ourselves we can not “TRULEY” relate with him on our level. He is the master mind behind making JESUS appear different the we are. We all know we are not GOD’S, NOR ARE WE EVEN CLOSE TO DOING WHAT HE CAN DO,SO HE CREATES THIS FALSE “IMAGE” OF JESUS BEING A GOD, AND THE CREATOR OF EVERYTHING, IT ALL A “LIE” AS SHOWN IN 2 ths 2.

    READ IT WTH THS IN MIND AND THOSE SCRIPTURES WILL SHOW YOU CLEARLY IT IS JESUS BEING ACTUALLY TALKED ABOUT THERE, NO ONE ELSE. PLEASE DO THIS T8.

    YOU HAVE COME OUT of some of the tribitarian teachings, but not all yet. Jesus (himself) is not the word of GOD, HE HAS THAT TILE given him IN REVELATIONS BECAUSE he speaks GOD THE FATHERS WORD TO US, NOT HIS WORDS. THAT TITLE IS A RANK OF AUTHORITY.

    Why can’t you see it is important we see Jesus as a fellow human being, exactly as we are in ever way, without exception, and what GOD THE FATHER DID FOR HIM he can also do for us. In fct GOD WAN’T US TO BE “EXACTLY LIKE JESUS IN EVERY WAY. Jesus was a purely human example for all human being, he is exactly the same as all humanity is and overcame exactly as we have to do, through his FAITH IN THE LIVING GOD, OUR and HIS HEAVENLY FATHER. GOD THE FATHER IS THE “ONLY” CREATOR THERE IS. IMO

    EDJ’S QUESTION TO YOU IS well put i believe scripture says God soke in times past through the prophets, it does not say JESUS SPOKE TO THEM.

    peace and love to you and yours. …………gene

    #802793
     t8 
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    While the Trinity is not true, it is also not of the truth to reject everything they say. In other words, “Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater”.

    You cannot write off everything a group says simply because they are wrong in a certain thing. Everything needs to be tested, not written off.

    Two simple questions for you.

    Did God create all things through and for the son of God?

    Did God create all things through his Word?

    #802797
     terraricca 
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    Edj

    1. Jesus Christ came to Jeremiah the prophet
    – and –
    2. Jesus Christ spoke to Jeremiah the prophet
    Hi Pierre,

    “then “The Word” of the LORD came to me, saying” (Jer.18:5)

    If you believe points labeled #1 and #2,
    then the following words apply to you…

    What the quoted words of Jeremiah 18:5 REALLY MEAN is:
    then “Jesus Christ” came to the prophet Jeremiah, and spoke – Terraricca

    Do I have your view stated correctly?

    yes you have it right ,where ever it says in scriptures that the WORD OF GOD CAME TO ;;;;IT WAS JESUS (THE WORD OF GOD )

    #802799
     t8 
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    My view is that while it is certainly possible that Jesus (before the flesh) came to Jeremiah, we must remember that logos is also still part of God and always will be. God did not cast aside logos from himself, nor split it off from him when he begat another.

    Likewise, truth is part of God, and Jesus while not being God, said that he was the truth and him being the truth is not to the detriment of God as he remains true as ever.

    Clearly, one is an attribute of God, and the other a person other than God, namely the son of God.

    Likewise for wisdom.

    #802800
     terraricca 
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    EDJ

    (B)Or before anything was created God decided Jesus would die on a cross and because of that thought he decided to create all things billions of eons ago, and two thousand years ago,

    you seem not to understand how heaven works ,yet in scriptures it is explained ,did isaac knew that he would be the sacrifice ?

    why would God allow Jesus his only begotten son go through this ? and at what point in time did really Jesus knew that was the purpose of him being send to earth ?

    #802802
     terraricca 
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    t8

    Jesus was the truth personified why ? but simply because from the day of his own birth he has performed all the things that was foretold about him in the scriptures and we know that all prophecies have been given to man by the inspiration of the holy spirit of truth ,

    #802808
     GeneBalthrop 
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    T8……It is also not wise to hold on to any part of A LIE , taught about Jesus. If you would just stand back a little and try to get the whole picture of the false teachings about JESUS, AND WHO REALLY IS BEHIND IT, AND WHAT IS HIS PURPOSE BEHIND THOSE “LIES”. How it works to decieve humanity in their “EXACT” IDENITY WITH JESUS. THIS “LIE” was designed to move people away from a real connection with Jesus on a pure human level. SATAN WANTS US ALL TO SEE JESUS AS DIFFERENT THEN WE ARE, so he created the “DOCTRINE OF SEPERATION”, which moves JESUS AWAY FROM HUMANITY. It throws the whole plan of GOD for humanity off, by throwing off our “EXACT” connection with him. IN THIS CASE YOU ARE NOT THROWING THE BABY OUT WITH THE WASH YOU ARE SAVING HIM, BUT THROWING OUT “ALL” THE WASH NOT JUST PART OF IT.

    PLEASE CONSIDER THESE THINGS T8. “Come out of her my people that you recieve not of her plagues”, come all the way out not just part way. T8 this is crucial, ask God to show you, and go and reread 2 Ths 2, it all there and clear to those who have the truth of GOD IN THEM. It is ajesus himself who will abolish all those false teachings, about himself, when he comes, so that means those false teachibgs will remain untill he comes, only a few have come to see this truth, please go and read it with this in mind, it is talking about THE MAN JESUS , HE IS THE “ONLY ONE” WHO IS “NOW” SITTING IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, BEING DESPLAYED AS A GOD. NO ONE ELSE IS.

    peace and love to you and yours…………….gene

    #802814
     terraricca 
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    Edj

    I still wait for your prove where is it ?

    also look at what John said ;Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

    this mean in truth that John was saying in John 1;1 -3

    Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was (a) God.
    Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.
    Jn 1:3 Through him(THE WORD) all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

    Jn 1:10 He(THE WORD) was in the world, and though the world was made through him(THE WORD), the world did not recognize him(THE WORD).

    BUT WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT “THE WORD’OF WHICH JOHN SPEEK ABOUT HIS JESUS CHRIST = THE WORD OF GOD so it seem you are not understanding scriptures properly at all

    #802815
     Ed J 
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    Hi T8,

    ‘he is the Word but took on another form, that of flesh when he came to earth’ – T8

    ‘Your claim’ means that you believe Jesus Christ was “The Word” before being incarnated into flesh.
    Also as I stated before, for your claim to be true, Jeremiah 18:5 must then therefore mean…

    (“then “The Word” of the LORD came to me, saying”)

    1. Jesus Christ came to the prophet Jeremiah
    – and –
    2. Jesus Christ spoke to the prophet

    Since Terraricca’s view is very similar to yours, I also stated…

    What the quoted words of Jeremiah 18:5 REALLY MEAN is:
    “then “Jesus Christ” came to the prophet Jeremiah, and spoke” – Terraricca

    Do I have your view stated correctly Pierre? (and here is his response to me…)

    “yes you have it right ,where ever it says in scriptures that the WORD OF GOD CAME TO ;;;;IT WAS JESUS (THE WORD OF GOD )”

    (THANK YOU Pierre for trying to be consistent with Scripture!)
    Funny how Pierre sees my point clear as crystal but you do not.
    Jeremiah 18:5 is but the first reason I give for rejecting ‘your claim’.

    There is more counter evidence against your claim, do you want to see it? “Yes” or “No”?

    Of course I am happy to see any evidence.

    Thank you for at least being willing to look at the evidence of why I reject ‘your claim’

    _______________
    God bless
    Ed J

    #802816
     Ed J 
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    There is more counter evidence against your claim, do you want to see it? “Yes” or “No” ?

    Of course I am happy to see any evidence. But to be honest I have no reason to have any faith in your evidence given the history of evidence you have provided for other claims you have made here. I am not trying to be nasty but just being honest. I do not like wasting my time with wild goose chases and I fear that this will happen again. I gave my reasons with scripture and those scriptures were but the tip of the iceberg. I doubt you can challenge all of them as they are written, but feel free to do so.

    Hi T8,

    I will use your term for simplicity. Here is where the goose chase begins…

    1 Corinthians 8:6
    yet there is for us only one God, the Father, who is the Creator of all things and for whom we live; and there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things were created and through whom we live.

    We start the chase with the word “through”
    The word “through” means: “because of” NOT ‘by means of’
    (and a stated before: “because of is in reference to. his death on the cross”)

    here again is ‘your claim’
    ‘he is the Word but took on another form, that of flesh when he came to earth’ – T8

    You and Pierre BOTH are taking the word “through” to mean ‘by means of’,
    as in Jesus Christ helping participate in creation (which would support ‘your claim’),

    rather than through’s actual meaning “because of” (as in Jesus being the goal of creation)
    which would not support ‘your claim’. (Let me know if you do not understand this distinction)

    So for purposes of clarity, I must ask…

    Q. Do you believe Jesus helped God with creation? (<– Please answer)

    And Pierre will you too please answer this question as well.

    _______________
    God bless
    Ed J

    #802817
     Ed J 
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    EDJ’S QUESTION (ref. to Jer.18:5) TO YOU IS well put i believe scripture says God soke in times past through the prophets, it does not say JESUS SPOKE TO THEM.

    Thank you Gene!

    #802818
     Ed J 
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    “Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater”.
    You cannot write off everything a group says simply because they are wrong in a certain thing. Everything needs to be tested, not written off.

    Hi T8,

    Thank you for believing that way about me as well.

    #802819
     Ed J 
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    My view is that while it is certainly possible that Jesus (before the flesh) came to Jeremiah, we must remember that logos is also still part of God and always will be. God did not cast aside logos from himself, nor split it off from him when he begat another.

    Likewise, truth is part of God, and Jesus while not being God, said that he was the truth and him being the truth is not to the detriment of God as he remains true as ever.

    Clearly, one is an attribute of God, and the other a person other than God, namely the son of God.

    Likewise for wisdom.

    Hi T8,

    Thank you for giving us the reason of why you reject Jer.18:5 as counter-evidence to ‘your claim’ 🙂

    #802820
     Ed J 
    Participant
    • Topics started 155
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    EDJ

    (B)Or before anything was created God decided Jesus would die on a cross and because of that thought he decided to create all things billions of eons ago, and two thousand years ago,

    (1)you seem not to understand how heaven works ,(2)yet in scriptures it is explained ,did isaac knew that he would be the sacrifice ?

    (3)why would God allow Jesus his only begotten son go through this ? (4)and at what point in time did really Jesus knew that was the purpose of him being send to earth ?

    Hi Pierre,

    1) Thank you!
    2) At least by the time Abraham began to bind him (Gen.22:9), maybe even by verse 8.
    3) Yes God did allow Jesus (his only begotten son) to go through the crucifixion.
    4) Is this question even relevant? if you believe that it is, please state why.

    _______________
    God bless
    Ed J

    #802821
     Ed J 
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    t8

    Jesus was the truth personified why ?

    Because man was created in God’s image.

    #802822
     Ed J 
    Participant
    • Topics started 155
    • Total replies 27,980

    Edj

    (1)I still wait for your prove where is it ?

    (2)BUT WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT “THE WORD’OF WHICH JOHN SPEEK ABOUT HIS JESUS CHRIST = THE WORD OF GOD (3)so it seem you are not understanding scriptures properly at all

    Hi Pierre,

    1) Proof of what? Do you mean why I reject T8’s claim?
    2) It seems what you understand is what religion has taught.
    3) Are you looking in a mirror as you are typing out these words?

    #802823
     terraricca 
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    Edj

    Q. Do you believe Jesus helped God during creation? …

    answer me this first ;since you are a creation of God did your parents help in creating you ? yes or no

    and you never have given any thing that prove otherwise that Jesus his the WORD OF GOD

    Jer 18:5 Then the WORD of the LORD came to me: what is it you do not understand in this scripture ?

    this is the second time you are telling me this ;;;2) It seems what you understand is what religion has taught.;;;; what are your reason to give that opinion of yours in this way ,I am not part of any religion for the past 45 years ?

    #802824
     terraricca 
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    Edj

    t8
    Jesus was the truth personified why ?
    your answer Edj;;Because man was created in God’s image.

    and you are wrong this is not why he was the truth of God his father personified ;

    it was for ALL HE DID, WAS TO FULFIL ALL THE WORDS HIS FATHER THROUGH HIM IN THE PAST REVEALED TO THE PROPHETS ;Lk 24:25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!
    Lk 24:26 Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?”
    Lk 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

    #802825
     Ed J 
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    (1)It seems what you understand is what religion has taught.;;;; what are your reason to give that opinion of yours in this way ,(2)I am not part of any religion for the past 45 years ?

    Hi Pierre,

    1) Because religion has taught you that Jesus is (according to them) “The Word”.

    2) If someone quits the JW organization 45 years prior, yet still believes
    Jesus is Michael the Archangel, does that at all change the fact that
    they learned that Jesus is Michael the Archangel from them, NO!

    Think about it

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