Development of the Trinity Doctrine – The Trinity Doctrine (Page 2)

Part 01 – The Trinity Doctrine
Part 02 – Who is the Most High God?
Part 03 – Who and what is Jesus?
Part 04 – The true meaning of ‘God’
Part 05 – Supporting the Trinity
Part 06 – Pre-Nicene writings
Part 07 – Development of the Trinity
Part 08 – Why challenge the Trinity
Part 09 – Trinity Doctrine conclusion
Part 10 – An Apostasy
Part 11 – 100 indisputable proof verses
Part 12 – What is your confession?
Part 13 – The Roman Catholic faith
Part 14 – Trinity Doctrine resources

A short history lesson

Babylon was the first world empire. We read about this city in scripture regarding Nebuchadnezzar and Daniel. But that was the second rise of Babylon, it was first built and ruled by Nimrod after the great flood. Nimrod was the great-grandson of Noah. He married a woman from Assyria called Semiramis and local legend says that she was a harlot/prostitute.

When Nimrod died, Semiramis was concerned that she might lose power in Babylon. She fell pregnant and told everyone that her child was none other than Nimrod reborn and that Nimrod became a god. The son was called (Tammuz) and became known as the son of God. Nimrod in essence became both the Father and the Son while Semiramis was known as the ‘Mother of God’ and the ‘Queen of Heaven’. However, she was also symbolized as a dove. At Hierapolis Bambyce (Mabbog) for example, there is a great temple which is said to be founded by Semiramis, and her statue portrays a golden dove on her head.

Already we can see ideas that have been carried through to this very day with the Trinity Doctrine, The Father, Son, and Spirit, the latter often symbolized as a dove. To make the parallels even more clearer, the son was said to be born on December 25 which we know is the traditional day for Jesus Christ’s birth. Notice I use the word ‘traditional’ because this idea is not scriptural at all. Often opponents of the faith make the argument that Jesus is just a pagan savior among many for this very reason.

To inaugurate herself and her son, Semiramis offered a drink in a golden cup for those who wished to pay tribute to her supposed divine son. Some of these devotees were inducted into a priesthood.

So, Nimrod became the incarnate son and Semiramis who was symbolized as a dove was called the mother of God. She was both the first Madonna and the spirit behind this trinity. This marks the birth of the Trinity concept and the Mother of God. We still see these traditions to this very day.

By now all this should be sounding similar to the Mystery Babylon that we read of in the Book of Revelation. There we read, of a Babylon that exists in the last days who is a harlot robed in purple. She even drinks from a golden cup full of abominations, and has made the whole world drunk on her wine. We are then given an explanation as to the woman. She is a city, she rides on the back of the Beast, which at the time was Rome, and she is guilty of spilling the blood of the martyrs.

It should also be clear as to who this last day Babylon might be. If not, then think about this. Rome (city of seven hills), a harlot, a golden cup, robes of purple. Then couple that with who/what promotes the Trinity Doctrine? If you are not following me here, then search out whose creed and faith is actually the Trinity Doctrine by looking up information about the Athanasian Creed. (We will be looking at Athanasius the man in the second part of this page.).

So how did this Babylonian religion spread around the world? Scripture tells us that after the Tower of Babel, God divided men’s language leading to them spreading out over the world. As we see with the Israelites and the Egyptian gods, the Babylonian gods were not forgotten, rather they found new homes in new cultures around the world. Because of differences in language, the names of the Babylonian Trinity were different. And due to time, this Babylonian Trinity not only had different names in different cultures, but they also put their own spin on the Trinity.

The Babylonian Trinity comprised of Nimrod, Semiramis, Tammuz. Egypt called their Trinity by the names of Osiris, Horus, and Isis the virgin. Greece had Zeus, Athena, and Apollo. The Roman Empire had Jupiter, Mercury, and Venus and even to this day, the word Venus is associated with beauty, sex. and fertility, a fitting description of Semiramis, India too has a Trinity consisting of Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva. There are more trinities around the world, but too many to mention in this concise writing.

Now we arrive to a point in time when the Roman Empire ruled. At first Rome didn’t seem to embrace a Trinity, but it is said that the Mystery religion crept in over time. The Roman Empire eventually became the Holy Roman Empire around the time of emperor Constantine. After battling with others for control of a divided empire, he won and to fully unite and solidify the divided empire under himself, he still had one major problem. His empire was still split between two peoples. Pagans and Christians. The Christians were particularly troublesome because they would never submit to the emperor as Lord because to them Jesus was Lord and they paid with their lives to prove it. Constantine’s solution was to embrace these Christians and to give them positions of power so that he could merge Paganism with Christianity. This was a huge change from previous times where Christians were regularly persecuted and martyred. But it wasn’t really that out of character for Rome because they had a history of absorbing ideas, knowledge, religions, and gods from every nation and religion they conquered.

Merging Christianity with Rome was Constantine’s master stroke as it gave him authority over Church matters which in turn strengthened his rule over the empire. He then set about solidifying the faith with rules and regulations in typical Rome fashion. In order to keep the peace, he successfully merged pagan ideas and festivals with Christian ones. So just as Tammuz the son of Semiramis was traditionally born on December the 25th, this became the birthday of Jesus. This helped keep both Pagans and Christians happy. (Although not all went along with these ideas as you would expect.) Constantine even made Sunday the holy day (holiday) for Christians when it was really the traditional day for worship of the sun by the Pagans.This was a clear departure from the Sabbath Day and probably a deliberate move to keep the Pagans happy.

It is even said that Easter the traditional day of Jesus resurrection was really a pagan celebration of Ishtar the Assyrian and Babylonian goddess of fertility and sex, who goes by the name of none other than Semiramis the wife of Nimrod. Ishtar was eventually pronounced ‘Easter’. If this is true, then the Christian holy day of Easter is but another name for Semiramis of Babylon.

While some believe that Constantine had a real conversion to Christ, many others doubt his sincerity and instead see all this as part of his political rallying. It is said that Constantine was baptized while on his death bed in case there was a resurrection. Surely this would describe a man who embraced Christians and Christianity more for political purposes than spiritual reasons, but we cannot know for sure. Either way it is probably fair to say that he had little understanding about the doctrine of Christ and matters of faith. Yet he had the final decision on many Church matters.

Athanasius

Earlier in this page I said that we would talk about a man called Athanasius. This man was revolutionary in the development of the Trinity Doctrine. He lived in the time of Emperor Constantine’s rule. The disciples of Christ had been scattered by persecution where they spread the gospel of the kingdom far and wide. In Egypt, Christian missionaries found ready acceptance of the gospel and as what usually happens, the growing numbers of believers began to gravitate toward certain charismatic leaders. The two most famous of these men were Arius and Athanasius. Both men were from the learned city of Alexandria. While both these men were Christians, they had some opposing views on who and what Jesus was.

Arius (c.250-336) held that Christ is the Son of God, and that because He is the Son He therefore had a beginning. He said:
“It is a necessary condition of the filial relation,” He wrote, “that the Father must be older than his Son. The Father and the Son are of “like substance” (or nature) and therefore Christ is divine and worthy of worship.

Athanasius, the Bishop of Alexandria, headed the opposing view which held that the Father and the Son are of “one substance,” coequal, and co-eternal”. He and his followers asserted that the doctrine of Arius lowered the Son making Him less worthy of worship than the Father.

NOTE: This writing isn’t supporting Arius view due to the lack of knowledge about everything Arius taught. Rather it is just sounding out the development of the Trinity Doctrine..

Moving on, history records that there were heated debates between these two factions. The citizens of Alexandria amused themselves with theatrical satires and plays depicting the protagonists, and not many years went by before it could be said that nearly every Christian man and woman had an opinion concerning the nature of Christ. The Jews and Pagans exasperated things by their mocking derision.

Emperor Constantine was at first very amused by all the squabbling as it kept the people occupied. But as the controversy dragged on, he finally called a council of nearly 300 bishops to settle the matter, although only a fraction turned up due to their lack of trust in him.

The rise of the creeds

The first ecumenical council of the Christian church took place in Nicaea, now in modern Turkey (c.325), 294 years after the death of Christ. The presence of the emperor added to the vehemence of the arguments. He would listen to all sides and then rule. His verdict would decide truth.

As to the main point, the Son was declared to be of the “same substance” with the Father. Arius was branded a heretic and banished to one of the remote provinces of Illyricum. The conclusion was ambiguous and settled nothing. The ruling of the Emperor was clear. He quickly issued letters denouncing Arius, and ordered that anyone found with a copy of his writings must burn it or be put to death.

Concerning the nature of Christ, the first Nicene Creed reads: “The Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church anathematizes those who say that there was a time when the Son of God was not; and that before he was begotten he was not, and that he was made out of nothing, or out of another substance or essence, and is created, or changeable, or alterable.”

At the Council of Nicaea, the debate was over the nature of Christ (begotten vs unbegotten). The nature of the Spirit was not an issue. It would be another fifty-six years before the institutional church would decree worship of the Holy Spirit.

History records Emperor Constantine as a criminal. He had murdered his son Crispus, his nephew Licenius, and suffocated in a steam-bath his wife of twenty years Fausta, mother of three of his sons. The public abhorrence of his deeds could not be concealed. A plaque comparing his reign to that of Nero was afixed to the palace gate. Constantine threatened to massacre the Roman populace who had insulted him.

Remember, this is the same Constantine who many say feigned a “conversion” to Christ, but not wanting to antagonize the pagan element, waited until he lay on his death bed to be “baptized” (just in case there is indeed a judgment). He also decreed that Christians and pagans should “rest” on the same day – Sunday.

The story doesn’t end here however. Constantine’s son who took over the reign as Emperor, and he followed the teaching of Arius. Constantine’s favorite sister was also a supporter of the disreputed teacher. She prevailed upon her brother and barely three years after the date of the council, Arius was restored to favor. He was treated by the whole court with the respect which would have been due to an innocent and oppressed man. His faith was approved by the synod of Jerusalem; and the emperor seemed impatient to repair his injustice. He issued a royal command that Arius should receive the holy communion in the cathedral of Constantinople. But on the same day which had been fixed for His triumph, Arius died very suddenly and under strange circumstances. The opponents of Arius said that God had answered their prayers and saved the church from the worst of her enemies. The three principle leaders of the Catholics, Athanasius of Alexandria, Eustathius of Antioch, and Paul of Constantinople were deposed, accused by numerous councils; and were afterwards banished to distant provinces. The believers were left to choose what they would believe with regard to the death of Arius – be it miracle or poisoning.

The council which took place in Nicaea (c.325) was only the first of nine “world” councils in early church history. Creed followed creed. The seventh ecumenical council, the second to take place in Nicaea (c.787) was convened by the Byzantine empress Irene to rule on the use of saints’ images and icons in religious devotions. The council declared that the veneration of images was “legitimate” and the intercession of saints “efficacious,” yet their veneration must be distinguished from the worship due to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

The Nicene Creed and the Holy Spirit

Regarding the Holy Spirit, the original Nicene Creed stated simply: “We believe in the Holy Spirit.”

This was later modified by the Council of Constantinople (c.381) to read: “We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father, who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified, who spoke through the prophets.”

The Apostles’ Creed

The Apostles’ creed is not the work of the Apostles themselves. It had its origin in the form of a confession of faith recited by the candidate before baptism. It is based on a formula current in Rome (c.200) although its present form did not appear before the 6th century. It is used by Roman Catholics and many Protestant churches but has never been accepted by the Orthodox
churches.

“I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again. He ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.” The Apostles’ Creed

The Athanasian Creed

The first clear reference to this writing was made during the 6th century, therefore Athanasius himself is unlikely the author. It is Latin in origin, and in the Middle Ages it was regularly used in church services. Since the Reformation its use in worship service has been confined to the Roman Catholic church and the Anglican Communion, although it is now infrequently recited.

“We worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the Persons nor dividing the substance. We distinguish among the persons, but we do not divide the substance. For the Father is a distinct person; the Son is a distinct person; and the Holy Spirit is a distinct person. … The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal, the Holy Spirit is eternal. Nevertheless, there are not three eternal beings, but one eternal being. Thus there are not three uncreated beings, not three boundless beings, but one uncreated being and one boundless being. … Thus the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. But there are not three gods, but one God.” From the Athanasian Creed References:

Summary

Throughout the ancient world as far back as Babylon, it was common for pagans to worship triad gods. This was prevalent in Egypt (Horus, Osiris & Isis), India (Siva, Brahma & Vishnu), and Babylon (Nimrod, Semiramis, Tammuz. also known as Ishtar, Sin & Shamash). So while we may have traditionally thought that Paganism was conquered by Christianity, it is probably more accurate to say that Christianity assimilated it. Even the fact that Christians worship on Sunday, was the adoption of a Pagan festival, because the Jews worship on the Sabbath and the traditional birth date of Jesus as being December 25 is the traditional day of birth of the Babylonian Trinity son, Tammuz.

So how did the doctrine become so entrenched over the millennia? Surely over the centuries men would read their bibles and declare the Trinity Doctrine to be false. What we need to realise is the Trinitarian Church and her workers withheld the scriptures from the people for over a thousand years. This gave plenty of time for the doctrine to take root and be firmly established. This is why even to this day you get serious opposition if you oppose this doctrine. Not only were those who opposed it killed, but most did not own a bible to check if this was so. Even to this day a great fear comes upon many who dare to question this doctrine.

Finally, we know that the Jews reject the notion of a triune God. However, we also know that the Jews have a temporary blindness on them regarding who their messiah is. But never do we read of the Jews being rebuked for believing in only one God or being blinded to the Trinity. Instead what we read is that they failed to recognise their messiah. Surely if God was a Trinity, then the ancient Jews and Jews today would have taught it. Yet to this day, devout Jews reject the Trinity Doctrine which is another sign that the doctrine is of pagan origin.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 21 through 40 (of 112 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #798157
    DavidL
    Participant

    t8

    He cannot be his own son

    ? not sure what planet you’re on, but Jesus is the Son of the Father..

    He is God because He is One with the Father – (not father of himself..!)

    you deny what you don’t understand – like Peter says,

    “These false teachers are like unthinking animals, creatures of instinct, born to be caught and destroyed. They scoff at things they do not understand, and like animals, they will be destroyed.” – 2 Peter 2:12

     

    #798166
    kerwin
    Participant

    David L,

    I see prefer the reasoning based on human principles instead of the word of God because we are taught that Jesus Christ is united with the one true God in the unity of the Spirit and Jesus teaches us that when he says “I and the Father” are one.

    Notice that unlike yours, my interpretation comes straight from Scripture. To be precise it is literally written in Ephesians 4:3-6.

    Subconsciously you realize yours is flawed but for some reason you inner self finds that hard to hand and so rejects the facts. Hopefully you can come to accept the truth in all ways.

    #798167
    kerwin
    Participant

    AndrewAD & T8,

    Whomever does not believe that Jesus is the chief son of God’s Spirit as those that believe in him are the sons of God’s spirit does not believe he is the Son of God.

    #798175
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Davidl,

    You should scoff at the teachings of men that are added to the bible.

    This is the easy stuff.

    #798186
    UMB5
    Participant

    @Davidl

    Would you please share your understanding of the following scripture:

    This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.</span>

    I have seen T8 give you this scripture over and over but I don’t believe I have seen you responded or address it. I am curious to what you find this scripture to mean, and how it absolutely does not prove Jesus is not God.

     

    #798275
    DavidL
    Participant

    Thanks, I have addressed this verse at various times – this was my most recent response to it from another thread..

     

    t8

    I believe in Jesus words but you contest me when I quote them.

    Correction: I contest you because you use the words of Christ to promote your own teaching..

    which is based on human logic – and not revelation..

    you do here what all false teachers do – bend the Scriptures to fit your own concepts..

    Because you cannot make logical sense of the Tri-unity, you end up cherry-picking verses to promote what you think is true

    you take one side of the coin and use it to deny the whole picture..

    so now you’re actually the one promoting false doctrine.

     

    This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.”

    To use this verse as you do (in an anti-trinity context) is to make the words of Christ deny His own testimony..!!

    you use the Deity of the Father to deny the Deity of the Son..!!

    yet if you take this verse back from the anti-trinity box you put it in, we suddenly see within it the very thing you are using it against –  the Oneness of Jesus Christ with the Father..!!!

    eternal life is in knowing both the Father AND the Son together..

    a Unity that makes Him equal to God.

    – God the Son.

     

    P.S. Don’t mind Nick ⇓⇓⇓ – he just likes following me around but he’s pretty harmless..

    #798276
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    Unity makes equality?

    God the Son?

    You are a mouthpiece for confused human religion.

    Why not serve the Lord God of Israel and promote His ways?

    #798338
    DavidL
    Participant

    A SHORT HISTORY LESSON..
    Is the Trinity Pagan..?

     

    #798340
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    Where is this odd trinity shown in scripture?

     

    Why would you deny that Jesus Christ is the Son of God?

    Why would you divide God from His own Spirit?

    #798341
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    Yes you do need to choose to be faithful to God and His teachings.

    There are no prizes for faithfulness to man.

    #799176
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    In this topic @DavidL, videos holds no weight if the idea is contrary to scripture.

    We want to see it in scripture before we even consider the possibility that it could be correct.

    Scripture says that for us, there is one God the Father.

    We need proof that this is wrong.

    Repetition of a lie, doesn’t magically make it true after a while. Brainwashing is not the same as a renewed mind. One is a lie inserted into the understanding by repetition, the other clears the mind of lies and rewrites truth in its place.

    We desire the latter.

    #799301
    DavidL
    Participant

    The video simply corrects your own unbiblical teachings about the origins of the trinity doctrine…

    #799307
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    Did this false teaching come from scripture or the false teachers who followed the apostles?

    #799312
    DavidL
    Participant

    The video addresses and exposes false doctrine taught on this site (ie. that the Godhead spoken of in Scripture is somehow connected to Babylonian gods)..

    #799315
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    Are your teachers more clever than Peter, Paul and John and the apostles?

    They were inspired but never mention this bizarre idea.

    #799325
    DavidL
    Participant

    I leave you to your own ideas.

    #799333
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    You follow the ideas that sprang 2-3 centuries after Jesus Christ and offer them as superior to those of Christ?

    If you are of the Spirit then drink water from your own cistern.

    #799338
    DavidL
    Participant

    You follow the ideas that sprang 2-3 centuries after Jesus Christ

     

    You should not be easily convinced by the arguments of carnal men who cannot understand things of the Spirit.

     

    #799340
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    Which spirit?

    Can you prove your trinity by reliance on supported scriptural TEACHINGS?

    Or is illogic held together flimsily by trust in inference?

     

    The approval of the Master is vital

    #799673
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    The New Encyclopædia Britannica says:
    “Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . . By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.”
    —(1976), Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.

    The New Catholic Encyclopedia states:
    “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”
    —(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.

    In The Encyclopedia Americana we read:
    “Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one person]. The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.”
    —(1956), Vol. XXVII, p. 294L.

    https://heavennet.net/forums/topic/trinity-part1/page/447/#post-49562

    A theology of the Holy Spirit developed slowly, largely in response to controversies over the relation of Jesus Christ to God the Father. In 325, the Council of Nicaea condemned as heresy the Arian teaching that the Son was a creature, neither equal to, nor coeternal with, the Father. ………Later pronouncements brought only one important doctrinal change, the 9th-century addition of filioque to the creed of Constantinople. That addition, that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the son, has been a source of discord between Eastern and Western Christianity ever since.
    Microsoft® Encarta® Encyclopedia 2002. © 1993-2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

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