Why are there two deaths?

The Lake of Fire

Death means separation. The first death is your soul’s separation from the body. This is physical death. Both righteous and wicked go through death.

The Second Death is your soul’s separation from God. It is written that the spirit goes back to God who gave it and we know that the spirit gives life, and that no one can live but for God’s spirit/breath. Only the wicked suffer the Second Death. There is a physical death and a spiritual one, just as there is a physical body and a spiritual one for those that belong to God and are granted eternal life.

Revelation 20:13-15
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Thus the Second Death is eternal and final. Once a person is subjected to the Second Death, they are separated from the source of all life, they are no longer living. It is clearly written that eternal life is only for the righteous.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Eternal life is certainly not for the wicked. God is the God of the Living not the Dead. If a soul can live in Hell for eternity, then that is eternal life, but in the wrong location. Scripture clearly does not teach that the judged wicked will live forever regardless of their location. In the world to come, there will be no more death, pain, or crying. For the former things will have passed away.

God is great and merciful. He is full of grace. He is a God of love. His justice and severity is at its extreme when he destroys the wicked. He also disciplines his own children while in the world, but for good reason. Everything he does is for good. He is the God of all good, Jesus taught this clearly in Mark 10:18.

And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.

I have faith that God  is good and right. And all the suffering now cannot be compared to the glory to come. We should all be thankful that the greatest power there is, is God who is love.

For more information on the death of the wicked, see ‘Is Hell eternal?‘.

 

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This topic contains 76 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  t8 2 years, 9 months ago.

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  • #789331
     dL 
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    obviously you can be alive without experiencing eternal life…

    eternal death does not mean you finally cease to exist – it means separation from God, forever and ever – (without end)…

     

    “And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” – Rev 20:10

     

    “But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars–they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” – Rev 21:9

     

    “Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, <span class=”highl”>he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. </span>And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” – Rev 14:9-11

    It is very clear what the Scriptures teach about hell – it is also very serious for those who add or take away from the truth of God’s Word.

     

    #789348
     t8 
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    obviously you can be alive without experiencing eternal life…

    eternal death does not mean you finally cease to exist – it means separation from God, forever and ever – (without end)…

    There is a contradiction in your statement as big as Texas.

    You say that eternal life is being alive right. But then you believe that the wicked will suffer while being alive right?

    So the wicked also have eternal life according to your view.

    You then say that they are separated from God and that is true, this is the Second Death. But by what thing or mechanism are they alive eternally? It is God’s Spirit that gives us life. If we have his spirit eternally, then we are alive eternally. If the spirit is taken from us, then no surprises as to what happens next.

    So, we prefer what scripture says:

    For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever shall believe upon him shall not perish, but inherit eternal life.

    We believe the wicked will perish and only the righteous inherit eternal life.

    We do not believe this theory that both Hell and the human soul are eternal. Rather, we believe that God can destroy the soul and Hell itself is thrown into the Lake of Fire which is the Second Death. We can prove this with scripture. All you have is Youtube videos and your own view. While they are not necessarily bad, they are bad though if they contradict scripture.

    #789609
     dL 
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    You create your own logical confusion – there is a difference between natural life, and eternal life..

    Before conversion we did not possess eternal life, yet we continued to exist..

     

    You say that this existence is terminated by the second death (this teaching is called ‘Annihilism’) but sadly this is in stark contrast to the plain Scriptures..

     

    “…They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” – Rev 20:10

     

    Again I bring a warning to you that there are serious consequences for those who change the revealed truth of God’s Word.

     

    #789610
     t8 
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    You give me one scripture that uses the word eon and ignore all the others that use to mean age.

    And I give you dozens of scriptures that talk about the destruction of the wicked and the old earth and heavens.

    Have another read:

    New Testamant:
    http://www.heavennet.net/writings/new-testament-scriptures-that-dispel-an-eternal-hell/

    Old Testament
    http://www.heavennet.net/writings/old-testamant-scriptures-that-dispel-an-eternal-hell/

    I can tell you here and now that a wise man will listen to scripture rather than a popular opinion based on a scripture that uses a word in varying ways. Whatever the truth is, the Bible will consistently back itself up on. As for eternal judgement, scripture is clear. The wicked will perish. If you do not believe it, then that is your problem.

    Realise that this age (eon) will pass away and in the next eon, God renews everything where only the righteous will dwell. No wicked person will be found there and no sin is there. There is no pain, crying. or the ways of old. No wicked person will ever enter any of the ages to come.

    Regardless, no one is encouraging people to sin and reject God. We are simply saying what scripture says: repent, turn to God for eternal life, or reject God and perish. You obviously have a problem with this truth, but we got it from the Lord Jesus Christ. He said the same thing.

    Read Jesus words and notice that he doesn’t support your view. rather you will find that we are merely repeating that which he taught.

    John 3:16-21
    16 
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

    20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

    21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

    #789621
     terraricca 
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    t8
    agreed

    two dead’s ? yes ;1) we are born dead because of the sin of Adam 2) if we do not accept jesus Christ sacrifice to save us from the dead curse of Adam then we are receiving the sentence of the second final dead or destruction of our soul by God ,

    #789630
     t8 
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    Amen T.

    The second death is the destruction of the soul.

    Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

    DavidL would likely argue that the soul cannot be destroyed. That is is eternal and thus millions perhaps billions of souls will be burned for all eternity and never face destruction. He of course needs to ignore dozens if not hundreds of scripture to hold his view.

    #789632
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,

    “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.”

    Of course the verse you quote says CAN and not say He does.

    Likewise it does not say instantly destroys.

    It must be aligned with the other verses

    #789633
     kerwin 
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    There is the spiritually dead but that is a symbolic  death in that a person is dead to the Spirit of God.

    There is bloodily death in which the body dies and then the death of the soul.

    From what I hear both the wicked and righteous are raised from the dead before they a judged and after judgment the wicked are destroyed in the lake of fire.  The lake of fire destroys both flesh and soul and Scripture says that, the lake of fire, is the second death.

    #789634
     kerwin 
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    Revelation 20:10Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

    “are” is present tense. This sounds like he is speaking of what is happening at the current time.

    “shall be” if an event that will occur in the future. This sounds like what will occur at a future time,
    “was” is past tense. It sounds like John is speaking of the occurrence of his vision and what he saw therein and so used a past tense verb because his vision was in the past.

    The “are” combined with the ages causes confusion in understanding the sentence.

    The for Koine Greek is most for likely saying “ages and ages” and “ages and ages” is a English phrase which means a very long and indeterminate time.

    #789644
     terraricca 
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    Kerwin

    you need more reading for you mix all things up , not only the truth in scriptures but the grammar as well ,we should go by the spirit not by the letter ,

    #789645
     NickHassan 
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    Hi KW

    “There is the spiritually dead but that is a symbolic death in that a person is dead to the Spirit of God.”

    All who do not have the Spirit of life cannot share eternal life.

    They are dead in their sins.

    #789651
     dL 
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    Thanks Kerwin… maybe t8 could give his interpretation of Rev 20:10..

    “And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” – Rev 20:10
    T8 – you teach that existence of the wicked is terminated in the lake of fire (second death), and yet this verse specifically says that the second death involves torment that lasts for ever and ever…!? [without end]

     

    Even if you change the word to mean ages and ages – how can this be seen as some sort of instant annihilation..??

     

    It is my conclusion that again you have manipulated the meaning of Scripture to suit your own teaching, (a doctrine based on human reasoning – and NOT according to the Spirit of God, who alone gives understanding).

    #789675
     miia 
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    You say that this existence is terminated by the second death (this teaching is called ‘Annihilism’) but sadly this is in stark contrast to the plain Scriptures..

     

    “…They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” – Rev 20:10

     

    Again I bring a warning to you that there are serious consequences for those who change the revealed truth of God’s Word.

     

    DavidL, you really need to get to know the true God. Most people accept the eternal hell doctrine without giving it any thought. But, when led by the spirit to truth, they DO question it, and God will show them the truth of the matter, and the truth is not what you defend.

     

    Psalms 103:9 “He will not always strive with us, Nor will He keep His anger forever.

     

    Psalms 30:5 “For his anger lasts only a moment, but his favor lasts a lifetime; weeping may stay for the night, but rejoicing comes in the morning.

     

    Isaiah 57:16 “”For I will not contend forever, Nor will I always be angry; For the spirit would grow faint before Me, And the breath of those whom I have made.

     

    John 3:16 “”For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

     

    Find the God who is Love. We inherited our love and compassion and forgiveness from Him, and He will save us.

    #789677
     t8 
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    I am truly spoilt for choice as to what scriptures I should use. There are so many on this subject. I do not understand why some just ignore them.

    #789679
     t8 
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    “There is the spiritually dead but that is a symbolic death in that a person is dead to the Spirit of God.”

    All who do not have the Spirit of life cannot share eternal life.

    They are dead in their sins.

    What exactly makes a person alive? The Spirit or Breath of God? Electricity?

    Does the spirit go back to God who gave it? If so, are the wicked given back the breath or spirit again for the sole purpose of being tortured for all eternity in Hell? Where is it taught that we are given the spirit/breath and then given it again after it is taken away?

    You need to think this through and look at the scriptures.

    How are the wicked alive if they are cut off from the God of the living? Do they have another life power source of some kind? Do they get to keep the breath that gave them life, if so, why does it say that it goes back to god who gave it? Is it wrong when it says that the soul that sins will die? What happens when you forfeit your soul, does it mean you keep it? These are good and sensible questions that any person wanting to know about eternal judgement should ask.

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