Matthew 13:47-50

Lake Wakatipu Queenstown New Zealand

“Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish.  When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away.  This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous  and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Lake Wakatipu, Queenstown, New Zealand.

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This topic contains 283 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  t8 11 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #800992
     NickHassan 
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    Hi,

    So not all those called into the kingdom will be chosen.

    The fruit of the Spirit makes the call certain.

     

    Those thrown into the fire are not immediately destroyed.

    #800995
     t8 
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    Yes some will be beaten with more stripes so to speak.

    It doesn’t say that they will never be destroyed and we know from many other scriptures that the wicked will indeed be destroyed. That is what we know, but cannot provide the exact details of when or whether some are destroyed instantly or if there are varying times before destruction happens depending on the sin etc. Whatever the case, they will be destroyed in the end.

    • For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    • Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
    • By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
    #801039
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,

    Mk 9.43f

    ” into the unquenchable fire, where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched”

    #801052
     t8 
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    To be consistent across all scripture that teaches destruction of the wicked, these kinds of descriptions can equally mean that the fire (destruction) is eternal or permanent. It could also turn out that the fire that destroys the wicked, the earth, cosmos, could be eternal and left as a reminder. But that is no indication that the wicked, the earth, and the cosmos still exist fully in the fire, but that the fire remains.

    We read about the smoke of Sodom going up forever and we read about Jesus coming back with a two-edged sword proceeding from his mouth. Obviously much of what is written is descriptive or metaphorical probably because it is hard for us to understand these things literally as they likely lie outside our current experience.

    That said, when we read descriptions like the worm that does not die etc, it must fit within the clear and plain teachings of scripture that contain no metaphors such as the one below:

    through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

    Now notice that the world was destroyed with a flood, followed by fire which will destroy the heavens, earth, and wicked. In case there is any doubt that the heavens and the earth will not be destroyed in the same manner as the wicked, then read on.

    “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

    Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.

    But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 

    “Lift up your eyes to the sky, Then look to the earth beneath; For the sky will vanish like smoke, And the earth will wear out like a garment And its inhabitants will die in like manner; But My salvation will be forever, And My righteousness will not wane.

    I see no justification in scripture for eternal life in fire for the wicked. If we believe that men will burn forever alive, then we have to throw away much of the Bible. The wicked and destruction/perish/die go hand in hand in scripture. It is a central message from God to a sinful race.

    To me, this is but another foundational doctrine that the Catholic Church polluted. The wicked will perish and the righteous will inherit eternal life is what we see written on the subject. The Catholic’s version of eternal destruction does not distinguish that only the righteous have life. Instead Catholic doctrine describes both as having life with the only difference being the place where they spend their life. To believe that view requires ignoring dozens if not hundreds of scriptures.

    #801054
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,

    why do you think there is any connection between the fire that destroys the earth

    and the lake of fire?

     

    #801055
     t8 
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    Because that fire results in the destruction of ungodly men. Are they undestroyed later on and given eternal life, so they can endure the flame with no end?

    #801062
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,

    Destruction of carnal men is only the first death.

    The second death is the lake of fire.

    #801063
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,

    Mt10.28

    “Do not fear those who KILL THE BODY and are UNABLE TO KILL THE SOUL;

    but rather fear him who is able to destroy both body and soul in Gehenna”

    Rev 20.13

    “And the sea gave up the DEAD which were in it , and death and hades gave up the DEAD which were in them;and they were judged everyone according to their deeds.

    Then death and hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the SECOND DEATH, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire”

    #801206
     t8 
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    but rather fear him who is able to destroy both body and soul in Gehenna”

    Destruction of the soul by God in Gehenna right?

    So are you saying that the soul is restored for the purpose of suffering eternally thereafter?

    Or is it saying that those who go to Hell will eventually be thrown into the Lake of Fire where they will be destroyed.

    The latter is the view I hold. I believe that Hell is not light out, but a place of suffering that is eventually thrown into the Lake of Fire. Hell is thrown into there so yes those in Hell will suffer destruction of their soul.

    #801208
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,

    HELL is not a useful word.

    It  encompasses gehenna and hades and tartarus I think, which better translations discern between.

     

    The destruction of earth by fire was never included in the use of that word as far as I know.

     

    #801211
     kerwin 
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    t8,

    The translators of the AV of the KJV translated more than one concept to the word hell. Tartarus, Hades, and Gehenna are all translated to the word hell.

    Hades which is called Sheol in Hebrew is a place of the dead.

    Tartarus is in the Greek version of Hades and appears to correspond to the place the rich man went after death.

    Gehenna is the Lake of Fire.

    #801212
     t8 
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    The wicked go to hell first whatever you decide to call that place. Feel free to look it up in a concordance, but looks like you have already done that. Then that first place for the wicked is put into the Lake of Fire to go through the second death.

    The heavens, earth, and wicked are burned in the same fire, and behold a new heavens and a new earth where sin has never dwelt. God will wipe away all tears.

    God makes all things new. Amen.

    #801224
     kerwin 
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    t8,

    The wicked are resurected from the dead as well and then they also go onto damnation. (Luke 20:35) There may be wicked that do not experience death before they to go on to damnation.

    #801228
     NickHassan 
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    Hi T8,

    You seem to express opinions rather than show truth.

    #801229
     NickHassan 
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    Hi KW,

    Tartarus only gets one mention and not in relation to men but angels.

    So how did you reach the opinion that it is Hades, the waiting place for the dead?

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