God or Son of God?

Jesus Christ and angels

We are taught in scripture that the one who denies that Jesus is the son of God is of the Antichrist spirit.

1 John 2:22
Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist–denying the Father and the Son.

You see, if you deny the son, then you have to deny that God is a Father also.

Islam for example blatantly proclaims that Allah (God) has no son. This would by biblical standards make that of the Antichrist spirit. A God that does not have a son cannot be the God spoken of in scripture.

But denying the Father and the Son is not always so blatant. There are deceptive doctrines in the Church that subtly deny the Father and the Son. One such doctrine is the Trinity. This doctrine teaches that Jesus is God himself and one of three members that make up a triune God. Yet scripture is adamant, there is but one God the Father and the Jews who were given the Old Testament have never believed in the Trinity and have never been rebuked for not believing in the Trinity.

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Ephesians 4:5-6
One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

But how does the Trinity deny the Father and the Son?

If you say that Jesus is God, then clearly you are denying that he is the image of that God. An image cannot be the source and God is not an image.

Colossians 1:15
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

If you say that Jesus is God, then clearly you are denying that God made Jesus Lord and Messiah.

Acts 2:36
“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

If you say that Jesus is God, then indeed you are denying that he is the son of that God.

John 3:17
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

Unless Jesus is the son of himself (God) he cannot be God. Clearly he is the son of the one true God. Any doctrine or religion that denies that he is the son of God whether in word or deed, is of the Antichrist spirit according to the Apostle John.

We need to be careful as to what we believe. We need to check all things out to see if they are true. We should never accept teachings without first testing them. We test them using the scriptures and the guidance of God’s Holy Spirit.

Listen to the words of eternal life from Jesus himself. Read them carefully. Do you believe these words to be true? If so, you cannot hold to the Doctrine of the Trinity.

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

God is often spoken of as HIM and HE, never THEY or THEM as would be grammatically correct if we held to the Trinity Doctrine.

There is one true God, the Father, and one whom he made Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ. God made him the messiah, and he is the only begotten son of God. It is through the son of God that we can have fellowship with God himself.

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This topic contains 3,752 replies, has 86 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of t8 t8 2 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #107195
    Profile photo of acertainchap acertainchap 
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    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 12 2008,11:27)
    Hi WJ,
    So WJ the Father is not the true God??
    Interesting.


    So you don't notice the Father as the true everlasting, God?

    Ephesians 1:17

    17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit.

    The Father is God. He pours out his Spirit upon mankind.

    The pouring out of the Spirit

    Acts 2:17

    17 ” 'In the last days, God says,
         I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
      Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
         your young men will see visions,
         your old men will dream dreams.

    Blessings :)

    #107196
    Profile photo of acertainchap acertainchap 
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    Quote (seek and you will find @ Jan. 12 2008,11:45)
    Mandy  I am not a newbie. And I do not and ever will believe again in the trinity. I have explained before how I see Jesus as God. He is the Son of God the firstborn of all creation. I see God as a Family name. In Corinth. 15 when Jesus will give the Kingdom back to the Father we are also Gods. We are the Family of God, and I am proud to be a member of that Family. It is sad that nobody recognized me.
    I thought maybe my bad English would give me away, but that did not either. Any guesses who I am?
    :cool: :cool: :cool:


    Please do not think nobody recognized you. You say that nobody recognized you. I recognized you if that counts for something.
    ???

    #107197
    Profile photo of seek and you will find seek and you will find 
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    Quote (t8 @ Jan. 13 2008,10:04)

    Quote (seek and you will find @ Jan. 12 2008,11:45)
    Mandy  I am not a newbie. And I do not and ever will believe again in the trinity. I have explained before how I see Jesus as God. He is the Son of God the firstborn of all creation. I see God as a Family name. In Corinth. 15 when Jesus will give the Kingdom back to the Father we are also Gods. We are the Family of God, and I am proud to be a member of that Family. It is sad that nobody recognized me.
    I thought maybe my bad English would give me away, but that did not either. Any guesses who I am?
    :cool: :cool: :cool:


    I give up.

    Who?


    :laugh: :laugh: You give up.

    Peace and Love Mrs.IM4Truth

    #107198
    Profile photo of seek and you will find seek and you will find 
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    Quote (acertainchap @ Jan. 13 2008,11:04)

    Quote (seek and you will find @ Jan. 12 2008,11:45)
    Mandy  I am not a newbie. And I do not and ever will believe again in the trinity. I have explained before how I see Jesus as God. He is the Son of God the firstborn of all creation. I see God as a Family name. In Corinth. 15 when Jesus will give the Kingdom back to the Father we are also Gods. We are the Family of God, and I am proud to be a member of that Family. It is sad that nobody recognized me.
    I thought maybe my bad English would give me away, but that did not either. Any guesses who I am?
    :cool: :cool: :cool:


    Please do not think nobody recognized you. You say that nobody recognized you. I recognized you if that counts for something.
    ???


    Chap You did, that surprised me, you almost sound angry. Are you angry with me, because I played around?

    Peace and Love MrsIM4Truth
    Grandma?

    #107199
    Profile photo of acertainchap acertainchap 
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    Another verse…

    John 17:3

    3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

    #107200
    Profile photo of acertainchap acertainchap 
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    John 5:18

    18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

    *They are equal but two seperate personages.

    :)

    #107201
    Profile photo of martian martian 
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    Quote (acertainchap @ Jan. 14 2008,09:11)
    John 5:18

    18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

    *They are equal but two seperate personages.

    :)


    The pharasees thought he made himself equal with God. Jesus never made such a claim. Jesus repeatedly said the Father was greater then He. The pharasees accusations are not something to base doctrine on.

    #107202
    Profile photo of acertainchap acertainchap 
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    Here are verses…

    Ephesians 1:18-23

    18 I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, 20 which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

    :)

    #107203
    Profile photo of acertainchap acertainchap 
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    Yes martian I realized that you are right, the Father is greater than He; but Jesus sits at the Father's right hand in the heavenly realms. :)

    #107204
    Profile photo of martian martian 
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    Quote (acertainchap @ Jan. 14 2008,09:54)
    Yes martian I realized that you are right, the Father is greater than He; but Jesus sits at the Father's right hand in the heavenly realms. :)


    Exactly — Jesus has been temporarily givenb all power in heaven and
    Earth an sits in the highest position of power other then Gid.

    #107205
    Profile photo of t8 t8 
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    Yeah like Joseph and the Pharaoh.

    Joseph had all authority in that kingdom, but not over the Pharaoh himself.

    #107206
    Profile photo of ronday888 ronday888 
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    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2008,05:55)

    Son wrote:

    SOL
    You continue to speak your Polytheistic theology without addressing my questions!

    What attributes does the Father have that the Son dosnt?  

    In what way is Jesus different in nature than God?

    So will we dwell in one another?

    Will we fill all things?

    Will we uphold all things by the word of our power?

    Will all things be through us and for us?

    Will we sit in The throne with the Father and the Son being worshipped and praised with the Spirit proceeding from us (not through us) to all of creation?

    Rev 22:1
    And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
    2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.
    3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and *his servants shall serve him*:

    I await your answer!

    :O


    There are so many viewpoints being expressed that it is difficult to keep up with who believes what.

    Regardless, in answer to the question: What attributes does the Father have that the son doesn't?

    (1) Jesus does not share the attribute of being the God and Father of Jesus with his God and Father.
    http://tinyurl.com/3cvbuc

    (2) Jesus does not share the attribute of being the only Most High with his God and Father. — John 10:29.
    http://tinyurl.com/yjnj7v

    (3) Jesus does not share the attribute of being uncreated, having no beginning, being unbegotten, with his God and Father. — Colossians 1:15.

    (4) Jesus does not share the attribute of being the Creator with his God and Father. — Mark 10:16; 13:19

    (5) Jesus does not share the attribute of being only true God who sent Jesus. — John 17:1,3.

    (6) Jesus does not share the attribute of being “God of gods” with his God and Father.
    http://tinyurl.com/2gbjxj

    (7) Jesus does not share the attribute of being “God Almighty” with his God and Father.
    http://tinyurl.com/2b8qf5

    There could be more; these seven stand out in my mind.

    Additionally, Jesus' God and Father is never spoken of as being the image of God.

    In service of Jesus and his God,
    Ronald

    #107207
    Profile photo of Not3in1 Not3in1 
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    Hi Ron,

    Welcome to HeavenNet.

    Thanks for your thoughtful post.

    Love,
    Mandy

    #107210
    Profile photo of WorshippingJesus WorshippingJesus 
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    Quote (ronday888 @ Jan. 14 2008,13:57)

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2008,05:55)

    Son wrote:

    SOL
    You continue to speak your Polytheistic theology without addressing my questions!

    What attributes does the Father have that the Son dosnt?  

    In what way is Jesus different in nature than God?

    So will we dwell in one another?

    Will we fill all things?

    Will we uphold all things by the word of our power?

    Will all things be through us and for us?

    Will we sit in The throne with the Father and the Son being worshipped and praised with the Spirit proceeding from us (not through us) to all of creation?

    Rev 22:1
    And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
    2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.
    3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and *his servants shall serve him*:

    I await your answer!

    :O


    There are so many viewpoints being expressed that it is difficult to keep up with who believes what.

    Regardless, in answer to the question: What attributes does the Father have that the son doesn't?

    (1) Jesus does not share the attribute of being the God and Father of Jesus with his God and Father.
    http://tinyurl.com/3cvbuc

    (2) Jesus does not share the attribute of being the only Most High with his God and Father. — John 10:29.
    http://tinyurl.com/yjnj7v

    (3) Jesus does not share the attribute of being uncreated, having no beginning, being unbegotten, with his God and Father. — Colossians 1:15.

    (4) Jesus does not share the attribute of being the Creator with his God and Father. — Mark 10:16; 13:19

    (5) Jesus does not share the attribute of being only true God who sent Jesus. — John 17:1,3.

    (6) Jesus does not share the attribute of being “God of gods” with his God and Father.
    http://tinyurl.com/2gbjxj

    (7) Jesus does not share the attribute of being “God Almighty” with his God and Father.
    http://tinyurl.com/2b8qf5

    There could be more; these seven stand out in my mind.

    Additionally, Jesus' God and Father is never spoken of as being the image of God.

    In service of Jesus and his God,
    Ronald


    Ron

    Try again.

    Those are not attributes of God.

    And none of them deal with the nature of the Father and Yeshua and the Holy Spirit!

    The things you quote are with the premise that Jesus is not deity, and in no way prove he is not.

    None of the things you mention deal with
    Jn 1:14, Jn 20:28, Phil 2:6-8, 1 Tim 3:16, Titus 2:13, Heb 1:8, 1 Jn 5:20

    And they sure dont answer these questions…

    So will we dwell in one another?

    Will we fill all things?

    Will we uphold all things by the word of our power?

    Will all things be through us and for us?

    Will we sit in The throne with the Father and the Son being worshipped and praised with the Spirit proceeding from us (not through us) to all of creation?

    Rev 22:1
    And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
    2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.
    3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and *his servants shall serve him*:

    Only God has these attributes!

    Thats just to start. I am a little tired tonight but will address you post point by point later.

    Welcome and blessings! :)

    #107211
    Profile photo of Is 1:18 Is 1:18 
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    Quote (ronday888 @ Jan. 14 2008,13:57)
    (1) Jesus does not share the attribute of being the God and Father of Jesus with his God and Father.
    http://tinyurl.com/3cvbuc


    Jesus is not the Father. Well yes. Modalists take note.

    Quote
    (2) Jesus does not share the attribute of being the only Most High with his God and Father. — John 10:29.
    http://tinyurl.com/yjnj7v


    Where is the verse that states the Father alone is the Most High God? Where is the verse that states Jesus isn't?

    Quote
    (3) Jesus does not share the attribute of being uncreated, having no beginning, being unbegotten, with his God and Father. — Colossians 1:15.


    The concept of firstborn to the jewish mind relates to inheritance and preeminance/priority of position. Not reproduction. To use Col 1:15 to demonstrate a beginning to Yeshua's life is to misshandle the text.

    Quote
    (4) Jesus does not share the attribute of being the Creator with his God and Father. — Mark 10:16; 13:19


    Incorrect – John 1:3, 1 Cor 8:5, Col 1:16, Heb 1:2, Heb 1:10.

    Quote
    (5) Jesus does not share the attribute of being only true God who sent Jesus. — John 17:1,3.


    John 17:3 does not explicitly say Yeshua is not true God.

    second post down.

    Quote
    (6) Jesus does not share the attribute of being “God of gods” with his God and Father.
    http://tinyurl.com/2gbjxj


    Where is the verse that says the Father of Yeshua is the God of gods, to the exclusion of Yeshua?

    Quote
    (7) Jesus does not share the attribute of being “God Almighty” with his God and Father.
    http://tinyurl.com/2b8qf5


    Which verse proves this?

    Quote
    In service of Jesus and his God,
    Ronald


    You do a disservice to Yeshua when you misrepresent Him from scripture Ronald.

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