June 13, 2000 at 5:53 am #782175t8Participant
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Part 01 – The Trinity Doctrine
Part 02 – Who is the Most High God?
Part 03 – Who and what is Jesus?
Part 04 – The true meaning of the word ‘God’
Part 05 – Supporting the Trinity Doctrine
Part 06 – Pre-Nicene writings
Part 07 – Development of the Trinity Doctrine.
Part 08 – Why challenge the Trinity Doctrine
Part 09 – Trinity Doctrine conclusion
Part 10 – An Apostasy
Part 11 – 100 indisputable proof verses
Part 12 – What is your confession?
Part 13 – The Roman Catholic faith
Part 14 – Trinity Doctrine resources
A friend of mine made this comment when we were talking about the Trinity Doctrine. He could see the merit in the fact that this doctrine was added in later and that many scripture appeared to contradict it. But he wondered why even bother with exposing the doctrine, after all most of Christianity is behind it and would this not just cause division or problems for the Body of Christ?
My response was of course to point out how important truth is and how nothing can stand if it is built on lies. I do admit that this will ultimately cause a division, but I say that division is good. Sure Jesus said a Kingdom divided cannot stand, but we must also realize that Jesus himself came to this earth to bring this kind of division. Not a division among the Body of Christ and truth, but a division of his Kingdom and the World. A division between the children of the light and the children of darkness. To divide the wheat and the tares. To divide truth and lies and to divide brother against brother.
51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.
52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three.
53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”
This division is good because it distinguishes between the truth and lies and good and evil. So yes there will be division, but this will sort out those who accept truth and those who do not, and accept lies and the things of men. As it is written:
2 Timothy 3:5
having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.
And 1 Corinthians 2:11
For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
So this is simply the same as what Jesus did to the Pharisees. He recognized their authority as sitting in the place of Moses, but he condemned them because of their teaching and actions, even though they were the religious men of that day. Jesus said that they block the way for those who would enter into God’s Kingdom and they themselves have not entered.
3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?
4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’
5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,’
6 he is not to ‘honor his father’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
As we can plainly see, being religious is not enough to a part of the Kingdom of God. To be righteousness, we must believe in God and believe also in his Son. We must believe in the truth and we must be led by the Spirit of God. It is not about rules, it is about relationship.
So we must keep away from serving the religions of man and instead we should fear God only. The fear of man and his judgements should disappear in the light of God and his judgement, but the love of God should spur us onto learning truth with eager and zealous hearts whilst aposing all lies that come against the truth about God.
2 Corinthians 10:5
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
But one may ask “why is it to Satans’ advantage that people believe Jesus is God?” “Surely his enemy wouldn’t do that.”
First of all we need to understand how important truth is. The foundation of true faith sits on the precept that is that there is one God. Next that one God has a son whom he appointed heir of all things, including salvation.
These 2 precepts are very important, but the Trinity Doctrine stomps all over it and says that both are God and they are equal and we worship them both as the same God. It brings in confusion and God is not the God of confusion.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
Also the Devil has subtly got many Christians to break the great commandment that we worship God as God only. Jesus was meant to be honoured as the son and the Lamb of God.
“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”
We should never underestimate our enemy. I think that Satan was losing the battle in many lives by using his agents to accuse Jesus as a drunkard or the prince of the demons. Jesus just had too much of a following and his miracles and words convinced many that he was of God.
So what is an adverse creature to do. Why not swing the pendulum the other way. If they love Jesus as the Son, then why not go with the flow rather than against it and take it too far and over the edge. After all it is easier to push with the flow than against it.
You see whether Jesus is a drunkard or the Most High God, they are still lies. Yes one lie is more flattering than the other, but a lie is a lie and no good can come from it. All lies come from the Father of Lies. Lies is his native language. They are his words. But it is the words of God that will set us free, not the lies or flatterings of the enemy. Works that are built on the foundation of lies, (no matter how flattering), will not stand.
Jesus said “upon this rock I will build my Church.” What rock? Jesus built his Church on the truth that Peter spoke. “You are the Christ, the son of the Living God”.
It is only this foundation where true faith lies. All other foundations will wash away in time. So what better way to try and decieve Christs followers by not saying that he is a devil, but that he is God himself. Of course don’t do it immediately, but over time, he can change the truth of God into a lie. This way he tricks those who have respect for the son of God, but do not love the truth to seek it out each day, or those who are not willing to die for the truth.
Remember that the Devil is the one who deceives the whole world. He is not so stupid to just say to everyone that Jesus doesn’t exist or that he is evil. No his most cunning disguise is as an angel of light.
But is there a verse in scripture where Jesus actually denied being God. Well first of all, the reason we do not see this outright is that this wasn’t an issue, apart from a couple of ocassions where certain Jews misunderstood Jesus words and him giving a defence against such a notion by saying that he was the Son of God and that men were also sons and gods.
No, it would be a couple of centuries and a lot of Greek and Egyptian influence that would make it an issue. Back then, the issue was more to do with Jesus being the Messiah, the son of God or a deceiver.
You will notice that Jesus also didn’t say that he wasn’t the Father or that he wasn’t Michael the Archangel because such things were not an issue.
Peter declared that Jesus was the Son and the Messiah and Jesus commended him and built his Church on that truth. Now if Jesus being God was an issue in those days, then this would have been the time to clear it all up. Peter could have just said You are the Most High God, you are Yahweh. But Peter didn’t say that. He said you are the son of God and the Messiah. So I believe Jesus and Peter over Athanasius any day.
In fact even Peter gives the truth that Jesus wasn’t thought of as God by anyone in his following words:
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Did anyone say that they thought Jesus was God, or did Peter declare that?
That is a big NO.
Don’t pass over this quickly. The true foundation is Peters declaration. Any other foundation, even one that exalts Jesus to God himself is still another foundation. Most of the denominations are built on this foundation. It’s as if Peter said to Jesus you are the Amighty God and then all these churches started up that were built on that. But we know that is not what happened with regards to what Peter said.
Even the one that says that Jesus is the Father is a false foundation. This is known as Oneness today and is just as wrong as the Trinity Doctrine. So what is wrong with Oneness doctrine? Does it not also exalt Jesus? What could be wrong with that? Would an enemy really do that? Could Satan tell such a lie to make the son greater than he really is?
Of course he does. If he can get you to believe in a lie, then he has that power over you. Sure he would rather you believe that Jesus is evil and then perhaps that Jesus doesn’t exist. Perhaps the lie that says that Jesus is the Almighty is the last lie that he would like you to believe. But it is a darn sight better for the enemy for you to believe any lie. Anything but the truth. Because it is only in the truth that God can work and if the truth be in you, then God can work in you and through you and that is the last thing that God’s adversary wants.
What is really going on?
Christian City and all her denominations were built by man. But true disciples seek the city made by God. We are aliens in this world. We don’t belong here. Our hearts are not in this world. It is the Kingdom of God that we love.
As it is written. “Come out of her my people”. Do not partake in her sins, lest you be judged with her. Babylon is the Mother of all false religion and a number of other things. Call it a coincidence, but Babylonians even worshipped a trinity and also worshipped the Queen of Heaven. Is it starting to sound familiar? Babel even built a tower up to Heaven in their own name. Is it also a coincedence that certain men who have drawn men to themselves also built cathedrals up to heaven and in their own name. Check it out; most demominations started from a charasmatic person and created a church OF THEIR/HIS OWN. This is a departure from the one body of Christ as it is written:
Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.
It is not about christianity. It is about the Kingdom of God. We should not seek the created things of men, but the creator and the things of him. Seek Heaven and the city of Jesus’s God and our God.
Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.
It is the truth that sets us free, and this includes the bondage of denominations. This way we can fellowship where ever and whenever. We can spend more of our resources on the poor instead of mortgages for buildings and keeping the system afloat. We truly need the 5 ministries for perfecting of the saints, not this system of priests and pastors who rule over the flock. Simply put, it is better to realise that you do not go to Church, rather that you are the Church.
Defining the true foundation of our faith is important so that Christians know what to build on top of. Many build on these systems (denominations) with their respective creeds which are normally some mashup of the Trinity Doctrine. It is better however to build on the foundation that cannot be destroyed or moved. This Trinity writing has an important message in that it challenges what many believe to be the foundation of their faith. When we can understand that the Trinity is not the foundation, then we are able to build on the true foundation and do works that will receive eternal reward, because the true foundation is eternal.
So challenging the Trinity Doctrine is not about starting a new denomination with a new creed. It is not about drawing men unto myself and away from Christ. It is done only so that Christians may realise what the foundation of our faith really is and that we are the Church and what that really means.
We know that Christ is coming for a bride without spot and blemish, so to that end we have a way to go and it is up to us to be humble and teachable, that we may be like Christ, who is the Truth.March 24, 2014 at 3:49 pm #782176Bernard Kirembu
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I have no comment about the following teachings by Paul:
1Corinthians 11:4-13, 1Corinthians 14:34-36,
Galatians 5:2-4 as can be seen in Luke 1:59-60, Luke 2:21-22March 30, 2014 at 12:49 pm #782177Bernard Kirembu
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Paul says in Galatians 1:11-12,”I did not receive the Gospel I preach from anybody nor did anybody teach it to me” The above Verses by Paul are: 1Corinthians 11:4-13, “A man who proclaims God’s message in a public worship with his head covered disgraces Christ and woman who proclaims God’s message in public with nothing on her head disgraces her husband”. Jesus did not preach that as well as 1Corinthians 14:34-36, Paul says, “The woman should keep quiet in meetings. It is a disgraceful thing for a woman to speak in the Church”. That is also a teaching by Paul. Galatians 5:2-4, Paul says, “If you allow yourselves to be circumcised, Christ is of no use to you”. In Luke 2:21-22, Jesus was circumcised after 1 week and in Luke 1:59-60, John the Baptist was circumcised after 1 week. Jesus taught in Luke 10:25-28, “To receive eternal life, love God and love your neighbour”. Paul teaches in Romans 10:9-15, “If you confess Jesus is Lord and believe that God raised him from death, you will be saved”. Victor Paul says in Forgers of the Word, “Seeds of Jesus as god were planted and sprouted during the lifetime of Paul reaching future creeds by AD 325”.April 1, 2014 at 8:17 am #782178AdminKeymaster
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Are you saying that Paul was an imposter?April 5, 2014 at 7:42 pm #782179Mike
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This is an incredible site and I thank you (the author/editor) for sharing your wisdom. I am a seeker of the unbiased truth and God’s Word. I originally began reading my Bible alone without any outside interpretation from man, and I could never fathom a thing such as the trinity. As I began to read into the trinity and what it entails I soon began to question what I had originally felt and read because of just how widespread and accepted the trinity is. So I am thankful that I found this website to help reconfirm to me the truth in God’s word. You do a great job in you detail explanations, simple logic, and scriptural backing of all claims.April 5, 2014 at 11:30 pm #782180AdminKeymaster
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Thanks for your feedback. Encouragement is both ways when a comment like this is posted. 🙂May 2, 2014 at 6:53 am #782181Saini Mateke
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I was baptized in a church which believes in the trinity doctrine at the age of 13.At that time I did not have the guts to question the doctrines of the church otherwise they would not accept me into their fellowship. For the last 25 years I was battling with my conscience about regarding the holy spirit as God. A number of preachers tried hard to explain the teaching to me,but to be honest I was not “set free”. Last year someone referred me to this page. I have been relieved of the traditions of men that occupied my mind for years. surely I will share this with anyone who is willing. I know I will be excommunicated,but if they did it to my Lord who am I to find it is on this pilgrimage. If you worship the holy spirit,you are break the first and second commandment. Include also on your site the study of the holy spirit. God bless you.June 6, 2015 at 7:22 pm #799041
Why the Trinity is NecessaryJune 6, 2015 at 11:04 pm #799048
Not mentioned in scripture
cannot be understood
but somehow vital?June 7, 2015 at 5:49 am #799054
Do you not yet know the Father and the Son
in the One Holy Spirit?
Aren’t these your own words Nick…??June 7, 2015 at 6:40 am #799056
And do you not understand them?
You want us to believe the Spirit is a separate PERSON from the Father and the Son?June 7, 2015 at 6:58 am #799062
Yes the Spirit is separate..
“Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on Him.”
Yes the Spirit is a PERSON..
“And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever.”June 7, 2015 at 7:39 am #799071
So when God says he will pour out HIS SPIRIT in Jl 2.29 what does HE mean?
Should you tell Him it is not His Spirit?June 7, 2015 at 7:45 am #799075
John said he saw the Spirit come down from the Father to the Son…
Should you tell Him it is not His Spirit?June 7, 2015 at 7:54 am #799078kerwinParticipant
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It is common knowledge that Koine Greek pronouns refer to the gender of the noun and not to the gender of the individual.
In John 14:16 the pronouns are not referring to the Spirit but to God who dwells in those who live by the Spirit forever.
John 14:17 is better but since the Noun Spirit is a neuter noun the related pronoun translated “him” is also neuter.
The “hims” are completely arbitrary and so are support for the teaching the Spirit is a person. The best support for what you have been taught is that the Spirit spoke to Peter in Acts as the three men arrived.
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