What is Man?

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  • #4771
     Ramblinrose 
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    Nick
    I will not summarise or correct. The articles speak for themselves.  I posted them for readers to glean understanding.  Just because you don’t agree with them doesn’t mean others won’t find them interesting.

    #4772
     Adam Pastor 
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    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 05 2004,04:12)
    When Samuel was raised it was not as a corrupted body but a living soul leaving the corrupt body in the earth surely.  


    So let me get this straight …
    You believe that the witch of Endor, a woman of familiar spirits, actually raised the soul of Samuel from the dead!!! :laugh:  :laugh:
    My, you give witches way too much credit.
    Again, you err. Only GOD can raise the dead.
    And He will do so through Jesus Christ, His Son.

    The Bible speaks of physical resurrection.
    The whole man dies, the whole man shall be raised from the dead! Irrespective of how long they have died, how they have died … the whole man shall rise again, physically

    (Acts 26:8)  Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?
    (1 Cor 15:35-38)  But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

    #4773
     NickHassan 
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    Ok Adam Pastor.
    This below is scripture. Saul, in disguise, goes to a medium and asks her to conjure up Samuel.
    1 Sam 28.12
    ” When the woman saw Samuel she shrieked at the top of her voice and said to Saul' Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!'
    'But the king said to her
    'Have no fear .What do you see?'
    The woman answered Saul.
    'I see a preternatural being rising from the earth.'
    'What does he look like?'asked Saul
    And she replied
    'It is an old man who is rising, clothed in a mantle'
    Saul knew it was Samuel, and so he bowed face to the ground in homage.
    Samuel then said to Saul.
    'Why do you disturb me by conjuring me up?'
    Saul replied
    'I am in great straits for the Philistines are waging war against me and God has abandoned me. Since He no longer answers me through prophets or in dreams I have called you to tell me what to do.'
    To this Samuel said
    ' But why do you ask me ,if the Lord has abandoned you and is with your neighbour? The Lord has done to you what he foretold through me; he has torn the kingdom from your grasp and has given it to your neighbour David. Because you disobeyed the Lord's directive and would not carry out His fierce anger against Amalek, the Lord has done this to you today. Moreover the Lord will deliver Israel, and you as well, into the clutches of the Philistines. By tomorrow you and your sons will be with me and the Lord will have delivered the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines”

    It happened.
    So what part of the Word of God do you not accept here? How can you appear to show such contempt for God's Word, his prophets and his servants?

    Yes the whole man, body, soul and spirit will be raised at the resurrection. But remember man was man [as body only ] before God breathed into Adam the breath of life and he became a living being.
    Gen 2″The Lord God formed man out of the clay of the ground and blew into his nostrils the breath of life ,and so man BECAME a living being”
    Again Gen 3.19″ For you are dirt and to dirt you shall return “

    Likewise when it says in Heb 4 that God's Word “divides soul and spirit” are you saying this scripture also is untrue because in your reasoning such division is impossible?

    You seem to offer your doctrine as more reliable than the Word of God ? I prefer to trust the Word of God Adam Pastor.

    #4776
     NickHassan 
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    I quite agree Ramblinrose. Any information can help us clarify truth.
    What did Jesus mean, in your opinion, when he said in
    Matt 10 .28 ?
    ” And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell”
    and Lk 12. 4-5
    “And I say to you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will warn you whom to fear; fear the one who after He has killed has authority to cast into hell; yes I tell you fear Him”

    #4781
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Adam Pastor,
    You are right in one way. The perishable body puts on the imperishable. The old one is not taken off but the new is put over the old.
    ” 1Cor 15.53 “For this perishable must put on the imperishable and this mortal must put on immortality”
    You say to follow the hebraic understanding but the OT, especially the psalms, constantly speak of the body and soul as separate. eg ps 16.7
    “I will bless the Lord who has counselled me.
    Indeed my mind instructs me in the night.
    I have set the Lord continually before me;
    because He is at my right hand ,I will not be shaken.
    Therefore my heart is glad , and my glory rejoices ;my flesh will also dwell securely for thou wilt not abandon my soul to Sheol,neither wilt thou allow Thy Holy one to see the pit”

    Heart and mind are mentioned separately from flesh and when the flesh sleeps they are still active. The soul can go to the pit or Sheol , but the flesh does not.

    In Lk 16 the rich man in Hades is dead, but alive and full of regrets-how do you explain this?

    #4787
     Ramblinrose 
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    Matt 10.28
    And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul : but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell .

    Luke 12:4-5
    And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
    But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell ; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

    5590    
    AV – soul 58, life 40, mind 3, heart 1, heartily + 1537 1, not tr 2; 105
    1) breath
    a) the breath of life
    1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
    a) of animals
    b) of men
    b) life
    c) that in which there is life
    1) a living being, a living soul
    2) the soul
    a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
    b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
    c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)

    1067   hell
    Hell is the place of the future punishment call “Gehenna” or “Gehenna of fire”. This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction.

    Matt 10.28
    And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the life (which will come at the resurrection): but rather fear him which is able to destroy both life and body in hell (total destruction in the second death after the resurrection).

    Luke 12:4-5
    And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do (they can only kill the body – they play no part in your future destiny at the resurrection).
    But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell (fear him that can kill you and end your life completely – the second death) yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

    #4788
     NickHassan 
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    Thank you RR,
    Do you agree that the soul is an “essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved at death?” or do you only allow the one that fits with your church doctrine? If not why would you choose the obscure meaning as that is not the way of God?
    I see you translated “Soul” as “Life [which will come at the resurrection]”
    The same greek word is used in Matt 22. 37.
    Do you translate that as
    ” Jesus said to him 'You shall love the Lord your God with your whole heart,
    with your whole life [which will come at the resurrection] and with all your mind '”

    The words “which will come at the resurrection” are added to the Word of God so I can only believe they were added for my understanding. Otherwise I fear you are perverting the Word. That is rebellion against the Spirit of God.
    Please rethink your approach for your own sake.

    #4789
     Ramblinrose 
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    Quote
    why would you choose the obscure meaning

    5590    
    AV – soul 58, life 40, mind 3, heart 1, heartily + 1537 1, not tr 2; 105

    As you can see above, has been translated as ‘life’ 40 times and as ‘soul’ 58 times – I wouldn't have thought this to be an obscure translation.

    Quote
    I see you translated “Soul” as “Life [which will come at the resurrection]”
    The same greek word is used in Matt 22. 37.
    Do you translate that as
    ” Jesus said to him 'You shall love the Lord your God with your whole heart,
    with your whole life [which will come at the resurrection] and with all your mind '”


    Am I to understand, using your reasoning above, that I should interpret all verses with as ‘soul’ – seeing ‘life’ is such an obscure meaning?  

    Matthew 2:20  Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child’s life .
    Matthew 6:25  Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life , what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
    Matthew 10:39  He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
    Matthew 16:25  For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
    Matthew 20:28  Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
    Mark 3:4  And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life , or to kill? But they held their peace.
    Mark 8:35  For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel’s, the same shall save it.
    Mark 10:45  For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
    Luke 6:9  Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life , or to destroy it?
    Luke 9:24  For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
    Luke 9:56  For the Son of man is not come to destroy men’s lives , but to save them. And they went to another village.
    Luke 12:22  And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life , what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on.
    Luke 12:23  The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.
    Luke 14:26  If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
    Luke 17:33  Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
    John 10:11  I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
    John 10:15  As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
    John 10:17  Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life , that I might take it again.
    John 12:25  He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
    John 13:37  Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.
    John 13:38  Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The #### shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.
    John 15:13  Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
    Acts 14:2  But the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles, and made their minds evil affected against the brethren.
    Acts 15:26  Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    Acts 20:10  And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him.
    Acts 20:24  But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
    Acts 27:10  And said unto them, Sirs, I perceive that this voyage will be with hurt and much damage, not only of the lading and ship, but also of our lives .
    Acts 27:22  And now I exhort you to be of good cheer: for there shall be no loss of any man’s life among you, but of the ship.
    Romans 11:3  Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life .
    Romans 16:4  Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.
    Ephesians 6:6  Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart ;
    Philippians 1:27  Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
    Philippians 2:30  Because for the work of Christ he was nigh unto death, not regarding his life , to supply your lack of service toward me.
    Colossians 3:23  And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily , as to the Lord, and not unto men;
    Hebrews 12:3  For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds .
    1 John 3:16  Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
    Revelation 8:9  And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life , died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
    Revelation 12:11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

    Quote
    The words “which will come at the resurrection” are added to the Word of God so I can only believe they were added for my understanding. Otherwise I fear you are perverting the Word. That is rebellion against the Spirit of God.
    Please rethink your approach for your own sake.

    I would think that the majority of those reading my post would be intelligent enough to realise that the brackets are mine and that they are only an interpretation for those versus.  You seem to delight in trying to make me look foolish and discredit me.

    Quote
    Do you agree that the soul is an “essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved at death?” or do you only allow the one that fits with your church doctrine?

    Again, presumption on your part that I am part of any church or hold to a church doctrine.  And tell me why, when you r
    eply in such a manner, would I bother to answer your question?

    I have deliberately tried to make my posts contain mainly bible verses and strongs interpretations so as to leave no opening for your unkind attacks and insults – yet you persist.

    #4790
     NickHassan 
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    Thank you Ramblinrose ,
    If you look again at what I said there was no direct accusation but only warnings about possible risks. I would hope you would do the same for me if I was teaching questionable doctrines. But if it caused offence then I apologise.
    Looking again at the Matthew 10 verse your interpretation simply cannot stand up without the words added in brackets and that is why I was confused about additions to the Word.

    “And fear not them that kill the body but are not able to kill the life”

    It makes no sense. It is duplication in it's simple reading. Life is not implied in any way as a future event here either. If God had meant us to know that the life was only given later He would have said so plainly and it would not require such verbal calisthenics to justify such an interpretation.

    Yes the same word is used for 'soul' and 'life' as often as each other so thank you for clearing that up. But that does not give us freedom to substitute them as they are vastly different. In English 'bread 'can mean money and some 'grass' does not need a lawnmower but they cannot be substituted in their normal contexts without perverting the meaning.You can probably fit some Dodge parts in an old Chevy but not without destroying the authenticity of both.

    If you say that a physical man is just a 'living soul' and both words can substitute for one another then again we have duplication and no sense. Such beliefs deny all the scriptures about the 'flesh' or 'body' alone. And if 'life' and 'soul' mean the same to you isn't that what you were denying in the first place? That the life is in the soul and not just the body?

    You are papering over vast cracks in this doctrine, whether it belongs to a church or not, and this doctrine is not of the Spirit in my opinion.

    #4804
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Adam Pastor and Ramblinrose.
    You say there is no separation between body and the soul.
    2 Cor 4.16f
    'We do not lose heart because our inner being is being renewed each day even though our body is being destroyed at the same time. The present burden of our trial is light enough and earns for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison. We do not fix our gaze on what is seen but on what is not seen. What is seen is transitory;what is unseen lasts forever.
    Indeed we know that when the earthly tent in which we dwell is destroyed we have a dwelling provided for us by God, a dwelling in the heavens, not made by hands but to last forever. We groan while we are here as we yearn to have our heavenly habitation envelop us. This it will, provided we are found clothed and not naked. While we live in our present tent we groan;we are weighed down because we do not wish to be stripped naked but rather to have the heavenly dwelling envelop us, so that what is mortal may be absorbed by life. God has fashioned for us this very thing and has given us the Spirit as a pledge of it
    Therefore we continue to be confident .We know that while we dwell in the body we are away from the Lord .We walk by faith, not by sight. I repeat, we are full of confidence and would much rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord”

    So scripture says we dwell in our natural body. Paul, the tentmaker, calls it a tent, a temporary and perishable form of accommodation. There is no doubt that Paul describes a very distinct separation between body and soul. Not only is there a separation but simply no connection. We just live in it. The breath of God was blown into it to give life to it, not to become it[gen 2]. Rather that breath enlivens what is dead and of earth.
    This body is what is seen, as it is visible, but faith asks us to grasp the concept of the future body with confidence. It is unspiritual to focus on the old natural flesh and give it so much value as it is just a vehicle to clothe the soul.
    We are promised a better habitation, a spiritual , permanent and imperishable body when we die and this new body envelops the old. That is as long as we are clothed-clothed with Jesus in baptism-and we are given the Spirit as a pledge of this new life. We are not to be as the Laodicean church in Rev 3-conceited but naked ,poor and blind.
    This new habitation is not heaven as scripture never says we go to heaven so it applies to the new heavenly body. It is not as houses and tents are, made by human hands, but made by God in the likeness to the man from heaven, Jesus, as in 1Cor 15.
    Please learn from the words of Paul and do not put your doctrines above his revelation from God.

    #4806
     Ramblinrose 
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    Quote

    http://www.british-israel.ca/life%20and%20death.pdf

    Now Jesus made the statement in Matthew 10:28: “And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body [physical life now and in the end time as demonstrated in the Old Testament] in hell [Gahenna].” Now the Assyrian or the Beast will be thrown into the Gahenna fire, see Rev 20:10.
    The Greek word “psuche” has been translated “soul” in this text, but in forty other texts it has been translated “life.” For example, Jesus said, “Whosoever shall lose his life (psuche) for my sake shall find it.” Matthew 16:25. Obviously “psuche” could not mean soul in this instance, or people could be said to lose their soul for Christ's sake. It is properly translated “life. “
    But what of Matthew 10:28? Put in the word “life” instead of “soul” and the text makes perfect sense in its consistency with the rest of the Bible. The contrast is between one who can take the physical life, and He who can take away eternal life. Here is proof in the words of Jesus: “And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell.” Luke 12:4, 5.
    In other words, the word “soul” here means not only life, but eternal life. Notice that Luke says everything just like Matthew except that he does not say “kills the soul.” Instead he says “cast into hell.” They mean the same thing. Men can only kill the body and take away the physical life. God will cast into hell and take away eternal life. Not only will their bodies be destroyed in that fire, but their lives will be snuffed out for all eternity.
    Biacchiocci comes to the same conclusion: “To kill the body means to take the present life on earth. But this does not kill the soul, that is the eternal life received by those who have accepted Christ's provision of salvation…all the dead will be resurrected on the last day, as they lie in their graves their soul, that is their life that they have lived for or against Jesus Christ, is still awaiting its final destiny; eternal salvation for believers and eternal destruction for unbelievers. The latter is the destruction of body and soul in hell that Jesus warned about” (ibid, p.88, emphasis added).

    Quote
    http://www.shmabelievers.org/1/id33.html

    Matthew 10:28 And be not afraid of them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
    Not only can Elohim destroy the body as men can but He can destroy the soul too. Any human has the ability to destroy the body, putting it to death through the damage they inflict. However no human can keep a person from coming back to life or staying dead. This is because Elohim holds the breath of life in His hands only, which gives Him the ability to put back that breath in a dead body, raising it back to life. Elohim has the sole prerogative to restrict that person from ever being alive again thus destroying both the body and soul (breath), that makes up the one individual life. This is exactly what Hes going to do in the end resulting in eternal death.

    Quote
    http://www.biblestudents.net/studies/doctrine/biblehell.htm
    “Fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell [Gehenna].” See also another account of the same discourse by Luke—12:4,5.
    Here our Lord pointed out to his followers the great cause they had for courage and bravery under the most trying circumstances. They were to expect persecution, and to have all manner of evil spoken against them falsely, for his sake, and for the sake of the “good tidings” of which he made them the ministers and heralds; yea, the time would come, that whosoever would kill them would think that he did God a service. Their consolation or reward for this was to be received, not in the present life, but in the life to come. They were assured, and they believed, that he had come to give his life a ransom for many, and that all in their graves must in consequence, in due time, hear the Deliverer’s voice and come forth, either to reward (if their trial had been passed in this life successfully), future trial, or judgment, as must be the case with the great majority who do not, in this present life, come to the necessary knowledge and opportunity essential to a complete trial.
    Under present conditions men are able to kill our bodies, but nothing that they can do will affect our future being (soul), which God has promised shall be revived or restored by his power in the resurrection day—the Millennial age. Our revived souls will have new bodies (spiritual or natural—”to each ‘seed’ his own [kind of] body”), and these none will have liberty to kill. God alone has power to destroy utterly—soul and body. He alone, therefore, should be feared, and the opposition of men even to the death is not to be feared, if thereby we gain divine approval. Our Lord’s bidding then is, Fear not them which can terminate the present (dying) life in these poor dying bodies. Care little for it, its food, its clothing, its pleasures, in comparison with that future existence or being which God has provided for you, and which, if secured, may be your portion forever. Fear not the threats, or looks, or acts of men, whose power can extend no farther than the present existence; who can harm and kill these bodies, but can do no more. Rather have respect and deference to God, with whom are the issues of life everlasting—fear him who is able to destroy in Gehenna, the Second Death, both the present dying existence and all hope of future existence.

    #4816
     Adam Pastor 
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    The following quotes are taken from “Life, Death and Destiny”, Warren Prestidge, Resurrection Publishing, 1998
    with some editing from me …

    Quote

    p. 19 “DUST”

    Gen. 2:7 tell us three things about ourselves. Let us examine each in turn, in the light of Bible teaching generally.
    First: “man” ('adham) was “formed” by God “of dust ('aphar) from the ground ('adhamah)” “Man” (in the generic sense), not “man's body”, was so formed. This insight is echoed throughout Scripture: Gen. 3:19, 18:27; Job 10:9; Ps. 103:14 (“we are dust”), Eccles. 3:20).

    Now, the same rule is true of the animals, according to Gen. 2:19. In fact, Gen. 2:19 closely parallels “formed out of the ground” (compare Ps. 104:29, Eccles. 3:20).

    The NT offers no contradiction. On the contrary, in the definitive treatment of death and resurrection, 1 Corinthians 15, Paul fully reaffirms Gen. 2:7: “The first man was from the earth, {earthy [choikos, dust] i.e.} a man of dust.” … Further, “As was the man of dust, so are those who are of the dust” (that is, all of us: 1 Cor 15.48). We “have borne the image of the man of dust” (49). As Paul explains, this means we are “flesh and blood”, “perishable”, “mortal” (50, 53).

    However, it is also true that all in Christ “will also bear the image of the man from heaven” (49). {Bear the image of Christ, the second Adam, who is to be the Lord from heaven.}
    How? By a resurrection change (51-55, 42). When? At the return of Jesus Christ (21-23).

    p. 20-21 “BREATH”

    Second, Gen. 2:7 says that we live in virtue of “the breath (neshamah) of life.” …

    Actually, the OT uses three different words for the “breath of life”, or life principle. In Isaiah 42;5, and Job 27:3, 33:4 and 34:14, neshamah is parallel and synonymous with ruach, (“spirit”). Once again, it is vital to note that this “breath” or “spirit” is also active in all animals. Animals, too, have “the breath (ruach) of life” (Gen. 6:17, 7.15). In Gen. 7.22, both words are used together, of humans and beasts equally. In fact, Eccles. 3:19 insists that man and beast “have all the same breath (ruach)“. Gen. 2:7, speaking of the “breath of life” “breathed into (man's) nostrils”, is certainly not speaking of a personal immortal substance. Rather, this “breath in their nostrils” is an indication of human frailty and mortality, not of human divinity or immortality (Isaiah 2:22)!

    The ruach {spirit/breath} which according to Eccles. 12:7, returns to God at death, is not a conscious, personal entity, but the breath or power of life.
    “No biblical text authorises the statement that the 'soul' is separated from the body at the moment of death. The ruach, 'spirit,' which makes man a living being (cf. Gen. 2:7), and which he loses at death, is not properly speaking, an anthropological reality, but a gift of God which returns to him at the time of death (Eccles. 12:7).”
    [E. Jacob, “Death”, in G.A. Buttrick et al. The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, Nashville: Abingdon, 1980, Vol. 1, p.802.]

    This is how we should understand Ps. 31:5 (ruach) and NT equivalents such as Luke 23:46 and Acts 7.{59-}60, where the corresponding Greek word is pneuma: “Into your hand I commit my spirit.” … The “spirit” which the Psalmist, Jesus and Stephen are entrusting to God is their life-breath. The only difference here from Eccles. 12:7 is the attitude of trustfulness. The expression means: “Even in death, I trust you, God. I am in your hands.” … James 2:26 explains simply: “… the body without the spirit (pneuma, 'breath') is dead.”

    A third Hebrew word for this “breath,” or life principle, or simply life itself is nephesh. In Gen. 1:30, it is this word which is used for “the breath (nephesh) of life,” which animals also have. This, then, is the key to such texts as Gen. 35:18, 1 Kings 17:21-22, Job 27:8, or Jeremiah 15:9. An exact NT parallel is Acts 20:10 (“life” – the Greek word is psuche). Both nephesh or psuche are very often translated “soul” in English versions, but this practice can be quite misleading. Biblically, the nephesh or psuche that leaves us at death is not a personal “soul”, but the life principle, which is God's to give or take.

    p. 21-22 “SOUL”

    Third, Gen. 2:7 tells us that man is (not has) “a living soul (nephesh) (“being”).

    Again the word is nephesh, just as the NT counterpart is again psuche (see 1 Cor. 15:45, where Paul quotes the Genesis verse).

    Once again, the same is equally true of all animals in general. Again, compare Gen. 2:19. There the animals are called “living souls” (nephesh; KJV “creature”). Similarly, water creatures (Gen. 1:20-21) and land animals generally
    (Gen. 1:24; Gen. 9:10, 12, 15, 16). An exact NT parallel is Rev 16:3, where water creatures are called “living souls” (psuche). In such cases, nephesh and psuche mean: the total organism, the whole human or non-human animal, without remainder.

    p22-25

    It will be useful, at this point, to outline the range of meanings nephesh and psuche both have in Scripture.

    ( a ) … both words often mean “breath” or “life principle” or simply “life”, whether of humans or animals. A few more examples: 2 Sam. 4:8, 2 Chron. 1:11; Rev 8.9

    In Gen. 9:4-5, Lev. 17:11 and 14, and Deut. 12:23, the nephesh is said to reside in, or consist of, the blood. “For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof:” (Lev. 17:14). This usage also explains Isaiah 53:10 and 12: the Servant's nephesh (KJV “soul” {i.e. “life”}) was given up as a sin offering. Accordingly, in Mark 10:45 Jesus explains that he came to “give his life (psuche) a ransom for many.” Other NT examples: Acts 15:26 (“lives”), John 10:11,
    Acts 20:24, Phil. 2:30.

    The usage in Matthew 10:39 is the key to Matthew 10:28 in the same context. In Matt. 10:39, Jesus declares: “he that loseth his life (psuche) for my sake shall find it” (compare Rev. 12:11); that is, they will “keep it for eternal life”
    (John 12:25), “in the age to come” (Mark 10:30; as in Matt. 25:46). This, then, is also undoubtedly what Jesus means in
    Matt. 10:28
    , where he says that human beings “cannot kill the soul (psuche)“: not that we have a personal indestructible “soul” which survives death (psuche cannot mean this in 10:39); but that, despite death, the Christian's life is not ultimately lost, for God can and will restore it in the resurrection age to come. Only God has ultimate power of life and death (Luke 12:4). He may indeed destroy life ultimately (“in hell” {in Gehenna}, Matt. 10:28) or restore life through resurrection (compare Matt. 16:24-27; John 10:17, 11:25-26).

    ( b ) As in Gen. 2:7, and its NT counterpart 1 Cor. 15:45,
    nephesh and psuche frequently refer to the whole creature, human or animal, alive or dead.

    “Man is described as a soul by the Hebrew word nephesh and the corresponding Greek word about 152 times in the Old Testament and about 16 times in the New.”
    [B.F.C. Atkinson, Life and Immortality, Taunton: Phoenix Press, n.d., p. 3.]

    A few obvious examples: nephesh – Jer. 52:29 {“persons”}, Numbers 19:18 {“persons”}, Lev. 7:27; psuche – Acts 2:41, Rom. 13:1, 1 Peter 3:20.

    Note Ezekiel 18:4,20, where a nephesh, in this sense, can certainly “die”: “The soul {“person”} nephesh who sins shall die.” It can be killed: Deut. 19:6; Joshua 10:28, 30, etc. Ps. 78:50, Proverbs 28:17 {“person”}. Sometimes, it is described as “dead” and may even be translated “body”: Lev. 21:11, Num. 6:6, Haggai 2:13! Even by itself, nephesh can mean {“the dead”} i.e. “dead person”, or “dead animal” (Lev. 19:28, 21:1, 22:4; Num. 5:2, 6:11)!

    Often, nephesh occurs in a weakened sense, as merely a solemn version of the personal or reflexive pronoun. For example, in Gen 27:19 “thy {you}” is actually “your nephesh“. Similar instances are Ps. 7:5 (“my soul” {i.e. “me”}), 30:3 (“my soul” {i.e. “me”}), 89:48 (“his soul” {i.e. “himself”}). So with psuche. {Of 1 Peter 1:9,  “… salvation of your souls.” is virtually equivalent to 'your salvation', just as in, 4:19 'their souls' simply means 'themselves'.} …

    ( c ) Both nephesh and ruach, like psuche and pneuma, very often refer to psychological states, attitudes, dispositions, or capacities; to the inner personality. A few examples: nephesh – Prov. 23:2 “appetite”, Exodus 23:9 “heart”, Deut. 6:5 “soul”; ruach – 1 Kings 21:5 “spirit” {so sad i.e. “depressed”}, Josh. 2:11 “courage”; psuche – Acts 4:32 “soul”, 14:2 “minds”; pneuma – 2 Cor. 2:13 “spirit” {i.e. “mind”}, 1 Cor. 2:11 “spirit”.

    However, never do these words refer to anything which survives the death of the body. On the contrary, death means “silence”, even for the soul (Ps. 94:17, 115:17; see Ps. 6:5, Isa. 38:18). “The dead know nothing” (Eccles. 9:5-6). “There is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol to which you are going” (Eccles. 9:10).

    p. 26-27 DEATH

    So then, what happens at death? The human being yields, or God withdraws, the gift of life (the “breath” or “spirit”) which God has given and the whole person, who is “of dust from the ground” (Gen. 2:7) is dissolved. Our creation is reversed. “You are dust, and to dust you shall return” (Gen. 3:19). “When their breath (ruach) departs, they return to the earth” (Ps. 146:4). We “sleep in the dust of the earth” (Daniel 12:2). …

    The basic picture holds for humans and animals alike. (Ps. 104:29). As Eccles. 3:19-20 insists, “For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; … All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.”

    The essential difference between humans and animals is that God has created us “in His image”.  For this reason, He has determined that human death, though all-embracing, is not final, but provisional. There is a judgment to follow (Eccles. 12:14, Heb. 9:27-28), and a Saviour through whom we may gain resurrection to eternal life.

    I hope the above helps to edify those seeking the scriptural teaching concerning 'man' who is A SOUL!

    #4817
     Anonymous
    • Topics started 0
    • Total replies 0

    hey adam,

    the greek word “pneuma”, which is generally translated spirit (whether of god or man), can also mean breath, or wind… do you have any thoughts on this?

    cheers,

    nate.

    #4818
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,243

    Not much help Adam Pastor but thank you,
    lots of inconsistencies
    We sleep in death …yet nothing survives death!
    Sleep is not the absence of life in anyone else's book.
    He continues with the false expression of Gen2.
    Having agreed man is dust he says he IS a living soul. As far as I read it says he BECAME a living soul by having the breath of God breathed into him. So that is a false addition to scripture. His version suggests a change of nature of the body but scripture makes no such statement.
    Your expert says the spirit of man returns to God so God has to recreate us in the resurrection. That is a new and highly questionable teaching.
    I will keep looking but it seems to add confusion and not show the simple truth.

    #4820
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,243

    Adam Pastor,
    If I showed you an inflated balloon would you say it was a localised area of compressed air?

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