Was Jesus Christ born in Bethlehem or born at the Jordan?

This topic contains 893 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  t8 3 hours, 30 minutes ago.

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  • #816819
     AndrewAD 
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    So looking at it spiritually our foreordination in heaven parallels  to Bethlehem while our choice to be born again or baptism parallels to Jordan.

    #816820
     t8 
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    Could be. However in the case of Jesus, he was born the savior and Christ. While I do not think it could be said that we are born saved or born as a son of God. We are born of Adam and have to choose to be born-again.

    While we may be foreordained, I am not so sure that we are preordained as I think Gene believes.

     

    #816821
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,

    Your one verse based dogma.

    Move along.

     

    Perhaps you could come to understand what the Angel meant?

    #816823
     AndrewAD 
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    By foreordained I mean the same as preordained in which case we are chosen before the foundation of the world.So in some sense we are born sons of God and predestined to be saved.Of course this doesn’t make us Christ but that body or even bride of Christ.

    #816831
     GeneBalthrop 
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    AndrewAD. ….THE word CHRISTO’S, is not referring to THE MAN JESUS but the Spirit of God that was in him. Another words God himself. GOD’S SPIRIT IS THE The BRIDEGROOM, WE and JESUS ARE THE BRIDES it joins us to the GOD THE FATHER, as it did Jesus, and we become one with GOD THE FATHER AS JESUS by that same spirit. REMEMBER where it says, “that God may be “IÑ” ALL and “THROUGH” ALL”. That happens when a spritual union takes place, GOD, WHO IS SPIRIT, AND OUR SPIRIT. Just as a man and women combine as one in merriage, so it is with the SPIRIT OF GOD AND OUR SPIRIT, And becaue we are son of GOD, the Father sends forth his SPIRIT into our hearts crying abba father, even the spirit of “TRUTH”, the “COMFORTER”, who JESUS SAID “WOULD ABIDE WITH US FOREVER”.

    It is crucial for all come to see Jesus, just as they see their self, in their relationship with God the father, JESUS’ is the same as ours can be, without any difference. Even if he is the head, the first born in the family of GOD he must still be seen as a brother and the one who hold the “firstborn” position.. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours. ………gene

    #816833
     AndrewAD 
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    Dear Gene,

    I do understand and agree with most of what you say here.But that term bride of Christ is used in scripture referring to believers/the church.I don’t recall anywhere that Jesus is somehow considered as a bride.

    I agree that Jesus was an actual human but to most Christians which I think includes you he is also more than that.Even if he didn’t preexist he was still foreordained as a savior without sin.It’s easy to say that he could’ve supposedly sinned but if he was predestined not to and didn’t sin then that ought to tell you something.Why were you and I not ordained to be sinless?

    #816836
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Andrew,

    You think you could have done the job?

    His work made ours easier.

     

    Honour the Lord.

    #816839
     GeneBalthrop 
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    AndrewAD. …you brought up a good point concerning the bride of Christo’s, that is not the bride of the man Jesus, but the bride of the SPIRIT OR CHRISTO’S which is of GOD the Father. THE CHRISTO’S AND THE MAN JESUS ARE NOT THE SAME THEY ARE JOINED IN A MARRIAGE, JUST AS WE MUST BECOME. The spirit ofJesus and the CHRISTO’S of God the Father abide “as” one in a marriage, just as it must with us. Jesus is an exact example of what must happen to us.

    WE were made sinners through the sin of our earthely parents Adam and Eve, For a Godly purpose, that we might become “as” God in “knowing” (having personal experience ) of good and evil and it’s results. It is necessary that we learn the results of good and evil, and experience is the best teacher. GOD used Satan as a Scientist uses a catalyst to speed up a reaction, man would ultimately sinned anyway, GOD just shortned the time by using Satan to accomplish his purposes in all mankind. At the right time GOD BROUGHT FORTH ANOTHER SON OF HIS, the “only” human he himself begot through a flesh born process, to fulfill his ultimate purpose for all mankind.

    Jesus is the firstborn from “humanity” to achieve the planed purpose of God for all humanity. GOD offered up his “only” begotten (only begotten, human born son) JESUS, as payment for all the sin he permited in the world. JESUS is the sacrifical LAMB OF GOD, FOR “ALL” SIN IN THE WORLD.

    Jesus is a work of God, and demonstrates “God’s” rightiousness, GOD THE FATHER IS THE JUSTIFIER OF ALL THOSE THAT BELIEVE.

    peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

    #820043
     NickHassan 
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    Hi ,

    We follow the one who was born in Bethlehem and reborn of water and the Spirit at the Jordan.

     

    #820119
     t8 
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    So you say Nick, but in the same breath you teach that you do not follow the one who was born as a Savior and who is Christ the Lord because your Jesus certainly was not born in the city of David as this.

    Can both freshwater and saltwater flow from the same spring?

    If your Jesus was not born as the saviour and as Christ the Lord, then are you looking to another Jesus perhaps?

    This is a question I would not take lightly, nor allow pride to harden my heart and stick to my own understanding.

    Even if you cannot fathom it, best to believe the scripture and let God reveal it to you later, then deny it because your own understanding says otherwise. What scripture?

    for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord

    and in light of this one:

    Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist…

    Can you be saved by such a one who was not born into this world as the saviour and lord?

    #820120
     NickHassan 
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    Hi T8,

    Why do you deny he was born a man?

    Why do you deny he was born under the Law?

    Why do you deny he was anointed for service at the Jordan?

    Can you not yet grasp the prophetic Word?

    your vain accusations find no mark.

    #820143
     t8 
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    Careful Nick, you are being a false witness regarding this and I do not want this sin imputed to you:

    Why do you deny he was born a man?

    Why do you deny he was born under the Law?

    Or perhaps you really do not understand what I and others are saying in which case you should abstain from debate and teaching till such time you gain adequate understanding.

    I have never denied Jesus came in the flesh. That means he was a man and we know he emptied himself and came as a man, born as an infant and grew to be an adult. I teach this.

    Also, my vain accusations you speak of are scriptures, If you feel in some way attacked by them, then I cannot be to blame. When you teach something that looks dodgy, I quote scripture and that comes across as an attack to you.

    Blessed are the peacemakers.

    #820147
     NickHassan 
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    Hi T8,

    So you agree he was born under the Law?

    Good.

    Gal 4 .4 agrees with you

    Gal 5.18 says “If you are led by the Spirit you are not under the Law”

    Was the infant Jesus led by the Spirit or is it only after the Jordan that this is said of him?

    Lk 4.1

    Are you sure he was born anointed or was Jesus appointed both Lord and Christ?

    You need to see what is prophetic otherwise you will remain confused.

     

    #820513
     t8 
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    Jesus was born the messiah and the lord as scripture clearly states. To say that Jesus was not the Christ for most of his life is mostly saying that he was not the Christ. The Antichrist spirit denies the Christ and the son. But many cults skirt around this while maintaining the Antichrist spirit. For example, Islam teaches that Jesus is the Christ, but he didn’t die for humanity’s sins, but failed when he died. They deny the son outsight.

    Nick, you deny that Jesus was the Christ outright for most of his earthly life. But scripture says he was born as such in Luke 2:11-14 :

    11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

    12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

    13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,

    14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

    And we have the prophecies in the Old Testament like this:

    Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

    One of his names is “God with us” and that name is assigned to a new born son:

    But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

    Then we are told that he will be born in Bethlehem and his origin is from old and everlasting. This is something else you seem to also deny.

     

    #820514
     t8 
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    Jesus is referred to as the King of the Jews in His earthly life: at His birth by the wise men (Matthew 2:2) and at his trial (Mark 15:2). All four gospels record the words “King of the Jews” as part of Pilate’s instructions (Matthew 27:37; Mark 15:9; Luke 23:38; John 19:3) and Pilate’s direct address to Jesus (Matthew 27:11; Mark 15:2; Luke 23:3; John 18:33). During the trial of Jesus, Pilate had asked Him, “Are you the king of the Jews?” (Mark 15:2). Jesus answered, “It is as you say”

    I am guessing Nick that you have to deny that he is King of the Jews for the same reason you deny he was born the messiah, because he is not ruling directly over Israel currently.

    And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.

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