Was Jesus Christ born in Bethlehem or born at the Jordan?

This topic contains 875 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  NickHassan 5 days, 18 hours ago.

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  • #809250
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,

    How can you follow what you do not recognise happening in the life of the Messiah?

    #809254
     kerwin 
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    t8,

    for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

    Savior is another prophetic title as Jesus wasn’t the Savior until after he died and was resurrected. It was his calling, as were being both Christ and King.

    Romans 9:10-13New English Translation (NET Bible)

    10 Not only that, but when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our ancestor Isaac— 11 even before they were born or had done anything good or bad (so that God’s purpose in election would stand, not by works but by his calling)— 12 it was said to her, “The older will serve the younger,” 13 just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

    #809257
     t8 
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    Jesus wasn’t the Savior until after he died and was resurrected – Kerwin

     

    for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord – an Angel of God.

    Another attempt to draw the opposite conclusion. I trust that angel’s message over yours Kerwin any day of the week.

     

    #809258
     t8 
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    Hi t8,

    How can you follow what you do not recognise happening in the life of the Messiah?

    Why does it frustrate you that I believe and hold to the scriptures I have quoted, rather than be swayed by your reasoning instead?

    Let’s for argument sake you did sway me away from believing those scriptures. What reward do you expect to receive from successfully turning someone away from believing those scriptures and the angels message from God? And if you expected to hear, “well done my good and faithful servant” because of this, then who would be doing the talking?

    #809260
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,

    Nobody can convince you that the Spirit speaks through scripture.

    God may choose to give you the grace to hear.

    #809263
     kerwin 
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    t8,

    You are implying Jesus’ sacrifice was in vain.

    This a basic tenet of Christianity that Jesus laid down his life for to save believers.

    Your words are saying that you do not believe that.

    Galatians 3:13-14New English Translation (NET Bible)
    13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us (because it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”) 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, so that we could receive the promise of the Spirit by faith.

    and

    1 Corinthians 6:20New English Translation (NET Bible)

    20 For you were bought at a price. Therefore glorify God with your body.

    and

    Acts 20:28New English Translation (NET Bible)

    28 Watch out for yourselves and for all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God that he obtained with the blood of his own Son.

    and

    Revelation 5:9New English Translation (NET Bible)

    9 They were singing a new song:

    “You are worthy to take the scroll
    and to open its seals
    because you were killed,
    and at the cost of your own blood you have purchased for God
    persons from every tribe, language, people, and nation.

    How many witnesses does it tale to convince you that Jesus saved us by shedding his blood on the cross?

    That act of compassion saved those that believe and so made him the actual savior and not just the one foreordained to be the savior.

    Matthew writes it different though the meaning is the same.

    Matthew 1:21New English Translation (NET Bible)

    21 She will give birth to a son and you will name him Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”

    #809268
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,

    Your trust in your own understanding is impressive

    but sadly deceived.

    Trust not in your own understanding.

    #809270
     Ed J 
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    I hear what you are saying Danny, but the problem these guys have is that they are actually saying that Jesus was NOT born the Christ in Bethlehem. This is the issue.

    Hi T8 and everyone else,

    In more term they say he was not born Christ, but he became Christ.
    For me the deal-breaker is Micah 5:2, which says that Christ
    came from everlasting to Bethlehem.

    NOT form everlasting to Jordan. So Nick’s idea
    that the Holy Spirit (according to Nick)
    is the spirit of Christ is FALSE!

    Especially since John 14:23 clearly states “WE” will come to them
    and make “OUR” abode with them. With the “WE” is listed in Rom 8:9…

    1. Spirit of God ………… (=God’s HolySpirit)
    2. Spirit of Christ …….. (=Jesus’ Christ spirit)

    Micah 5:2 clearly is the deal-breaker here.
    To suggest that Jesus’ spirit was not divine
    goes against the clear teachings of Scripture!
    How then can they explain Jesus’ sin free nature?

    _______________
    God bless
    Ed J

    #809272
     Ed J 
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    Hi T8,

    Separate issues.

    The Word was made flesh in Jesus at the Jordan.

    Correct Nick,

    Since “The Word” is God’s “HolySpirit”
    “The Word” was made flesh in Christ at Jordan.

    …and you are right that this is a separate issue.

    ________________
    God bless
    Ed J

    #809273
     Ed J 
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    Hi t8,

    How can you follow what you do not recognise happening in the life of the Messiah?

    Hi Nick,

    How can you substitute saying the life of the messiah for the life of Jesus,
    when you do not believe they are the same? Contradictions upon contradictions.

    #809275
     Ed J 
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    Hi Nick and Kerwin,

    If Jesus wasn’t conceived *AS* the spirit of Christ in Mary’s womb,
    what then kept him form sinning the first 30 years of his life?

    Mmmm?

    #809276
     Ed J 
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    Hi Nick,

    your standard line of…
    ED,
    Why are you confused about prophecy
    …has no match for Micah 5:2:

    ”from everlasting TO BETHLEHEM”

    since youou believe the spirit of Christ bypassed Bethlehem

    #809277
     t8 
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    lol. I trust in my own understanding because I repeat scripture word for word and rebuke you guys when you say the opposite. It feels like listening to those scientists like Krauss a theoretical  physicist who foolishly implied that the universe arose from nothing.

    Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

    Can you guys not see that you are just clearly and blatantly rejecting scripture when it says one thing and you another. Regardless of how you justify this and regardless of how impressive your reasoning is, you have just said the opposite of scripture itself and then rebuke those who quote the scripture as is. That means you also rebuke the angel who proclaimed that the Christ was born referring to Jesus as a baby in Bethlehem. Are you guys really that blind? Wow!

    If it wasn’t so serious it would be absolutely hilarious. I definitely get a kick out that book titled: “A Universe from Nothing” by Krauss. Likewise you guys also give me the same laugh, albeit, it comes with more serious consequences, so it is a laugh at the foolishness of it all, but not at you because your souls are precious.

    I guess I should point out that anyone who leads one astray from the truth in scripture, well I can tell you that there is a reward for that, but not all rewards are good.

    I will stick with scripture and base my understanding on what that says with the guidance of the Spirit of God. And I know that the Spirit of God will not make me beleive the exact opposite of scripture. I am not interested in the carnal stuff that draws a contradictory meaning to the clear text that was inspired by God.

    I am sure that you are capable of understanding what I am telling you.

    #809278
     t8 
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    Hi t8,

    Your trust in your own understanding is impressive

    but sadly deceived.

    Trust not in your own understanding.

    Lol. Here is my understanding. Feel free to rebuke me more.

    for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.”

    Sorry that I do not believe the opposite like you want. But I cannot do that. It would be wrong. I trust the scripture over your ability to reason. I would rather say sorry to you than God.

    #809279
     t8 
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    Micah 5:2 clearly is the deal-breaker here.

    Yes that is a deal breaker. But for me, and even bigger deal breaker is teaching the exact opposite of what the angel declared about Jesus Christ the Lord, being born that day.

    Wow, what arrogance to challenge an angel of God and teach the opposite to the words he delivered about Jesus.

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