Trinity (Part 1)

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  • #78030
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 69,488

    Hi WJ,
    Christ was a man.
    He cannot separate himself from humanity.
    Just as well as we are meant to be following him.

    #78031
     Son of Light 
    Member
    • Topics started 9
    • Total replies 427

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2008,09:29)

    Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 12 2008,09:05)

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2008,09:01)

    Quote (acertainchap @ Jan. 12 2008,06:15)
    John 6:38, “For I came down from heaven not to do my own will, but the will of Him that sent me.”

    We see Jesus’ non-identity with the Godhead, as he states that he is an agent of the Father whom sent him.

    :)


    chap

    Is the agent different in nature than the one who sent him?

    If so, how? ???


    Nature and Identity are two distinct things.

    We are both humans.  But we aren’t the same being.


    SOL

    So goes the Henotheistic and Arian concept.

    Yes, but we are talking about the substance and essence of what makes God God.

    God is Spirit. Jesus is Spirit.

    Unlike the nature of man, God can be everywhere all at the same time.

    You try to make a distinction in the ontological nature of the Father and Jesus.

    Since you do, then maybe you can show me a difference in the Father and the Son.

    What attributes does the Father have that the Son dosnt?

    In what way is Jesus different in nature than God?

    Also you cant seperate I dentity from nature.

    Can you seperate yourself from humanity?

    ???


    Only the Father has ever existed. The Father is greater than Jesus. Only the Father exists in unapproable Light.

    I agree with you that Jesus shares the nature of the Father.

    But I also think we all will. This makes the number of the Godhead rather large.

    So yes we will all be elohim. But amongst us will always be the source of all. The very head of the Godhead. The Father of all.

    #78032
     acertainchap 
    Member
    • Topics started 56
    • Total replies 1,073


    Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 12 2008,09:39)
    Only the Father has ever existed.  The Father is greater than Jesus.  Only the Father exists in unapproable Light.

    I agree with you that Jesus shares the nature of the Father.

    But I also think we all will.  This makes the number of the Godhead rather large.

    So yes we will all be elohim.  But amongst us will always be the source of all.  The very head of the Godhead.  The Father of all.


    So you believe in the trinity doctrine, then?

    #78034
     Son of Light 
    Member
    • Topics started 9
    • Total replies 427

    Quote (acertainchap @ Jan. 12 2008,09:43)

    Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 12 2008,09:39)
    Only the Father has ever existed.  The Father is greater than Jesus.  Only the Father exists in unapproable Light.

    I agree with you that Jesus shares the nature of the Father.

    But I also think we all will.  This makes the number of the Godhead rather large.

    So yes we will all be elohim.  But amongst us will always be the source of all.  The very head of the Godhead.  The Father of all.


    So you believe in the trinity doctrine, then?


    No.

    #78035
     Son of Light 
    Member
    • Topics started 9
    • Total replies 427

    Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 12 2008,09:48)

    Quote (acertainchap @ Jan. 12 2008,09:43)

    Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 12 2008,09:39)
    Only the Father has ever existed.  The Father is greater than Jesus.  Only the Father exists in unapproable Light.

    I agree with you that Jesus shares the nature of the Father.

    But I also think we all will.  This makes the number of the Godhead rather large.

    So yes we will all be elohim.  But amongst us will always be the source of all.  The very head of the Godhead.  The Father of all.


    So you believe in the trinity doctrine, then?


    No.


    A divine family that all share the same nature or substance.

    BUT ONLY ONE ETERNAL FATHER AND SOURCE OF ALL.

    #78037
     WorshippingJesus 
    Participant
    • Topics started 50
    • Total replies 12,316


    Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 12 2008,09:39)

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2008,09:29)

    Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 12 2008,09:05)

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2008,09:01)

    Quote (acertainchap @ Jan. 12 2008,06:15)
    John 6:38, “For I came down from heaven not to do my own will, but the will of Him that sent me.”

    We see Jesus’ non-identity with the Godhead, as he states that he is an agent of the Father whom sent him.

    :)


    chap

    Is the agent different in nature than the one who sent him?

    If so, how? ???


    Nature and Identity are two distinct things.

    We are both humans.  But we aren’t the same being.


    SOL

    So goes the Henotheistic and Arian concept.

    Yes, but we are talking about the substance and essence of what makes God God.

    God is Spirit. Jesus is Spirit.

    Unlike the nature of man, God can be everywhere all at the same time.

    You try to make a distinction in the ontological nature of the Father and Jesus.

    Since you do, then maybe you can show me a difference in the Father and the Son.

    What attributes does the Father have that the Son dosnt?

    In what way is Jesus different in nature than God?

    Also you cant seperate I dentity from nature.

    Can you seperate yourself from humanity?

    ???


    Only the Father has ever existed.  The Father is greater than Jesus.  Only the Father exists in unapproable Light.

    I agree with you that Jesus shares the nature of the Father.

    But I also think we all will.  This makes the number of the Godhead rather large.

    So yes we will all be elohim.  But amongst us will always be the source of all.  The very head of the Godhead.  The Father of all.


    Yep

    Pure Henotheism.

    So will we dwell in one another?

    Will we fill all things?

    Will we uphold all things by the word of our power?

    Will all things be through us and for us?

    Will we sit in The throne with the Father and the Son being worshipped and praised with the Spirit proceeding from us (not through us) to all of creation?

    Rev 22:1
    And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
    2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.
    3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and *his servants shall serve him*:

    No SOL we will not be part of the Godhead. Neither will we be gods.

    :O

    #78038
     WorshippingJesus 
    Participant
    • Topics started 50
    • Total replies 12,316


    Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 12 2008,09:49)

    Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 12 2008,09:48)

    Quote (acertainchap @ Jan. 12 2008,09:43)

    Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 12 2008,09:39)
    Only the Father has ever existed.  The Father is greater than Jesus.  Only the Father exists in unapproable Light.

    I agree with you that Jesus shares the nature of the Father.

    But I also think we all will.  This makes the number of the Godhead rather large.

    So yes we will all be elohim.  But amongst us will always be the source of all.  The very head of the Godhead.  The Father of all.


    So you believe in the trinity doctrine, then?


    No.


    A divine family that all share the same nature or substance.

    BUT ONLY ONE ETERNAL FATHER AND SOURCE OF ALL.


    SOL

    Maybe you can show me a scripture that says the Yeshua “Shares” the nature of God?

    :p

    #78040
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 69,488

    Hi WJ,
    So he was just a man sharing our nature.
    But the whole basis of you argument has been that he is God.
    But you have no scriptures that say he shares the nature of the God he is Son of?

    #78041
     WorshippingJesus 
    Participant
    • Topics started 50
    • Total replies 12,316

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 12 2008,10:04)
    Hi WJ,
    So  he was just a man sharing our nature.
    But the whole basis of you argument has been that he is God.
    But you have no scriptures that say he shares the nature of the God he is Son of?


    NH

    Thats because there is no scriptures that say Yeshua shares the nature of God.

    Because his nature is God.

    #78042
     Son of Light 
    Member
    • Topics started 9
    • Total replies 427

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2008,10:01)

    Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 12 2008,09:49)

    Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 12 2008,09:48)

    Quote (acertainchap @ Jan. 12 2008,09:43)

    Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 12 2008,09:39)
    Only the Father has ever existed.  The Father is greater than Jesus.  Only the Father exists in unapproable Light.

    I agree with you that Jesus shares the nature of the Father.

    But I also think we all will.  This makes the number of the Godhead rather large.

    So yes we will all be elohim.  But amongst us will always be the source of all.  The very head of the Godhead.  The Father of all.


    So you believe in the trinity doctrine, then?


    No.


    A divine family that all share the same nature or substance.

    BUT ONLY ONE ETERNAL FATHER AND SOURCE OF ALL.


    SOL

    Maybe you can show me a scripture that says the Yeshua “Shares” the nature of God?

    :p


    I would hope that you could do that. If you can’t that shoots down the trinity rather quickly.

    #78044
     WorshippingJesus 
    Participant
    • Topics started 50
    • Total replies 12,316

    Hi all!

    Rev 22:1
    And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
    2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.
    3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and *his servants shall serve him*:

    Here we see the three. The Father and the Son, and the Holy Spirit proceeding from them!

    “His servants shall serve him”!

    Serve who? The Father or the Son or Holy Spirit? How many gods shall we serve?

    You cant serve the Father or the Holy Spirit apart from the Son.

    So when you say I serve God, really you are saying you are serving them!

    The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are One!

    So the next time God speaks to you then according to the Henotheist You should say “They spoke to me”.

    :p

    #78045
     WorshippingJesus 
    Participant
    • Topics started 50
    • Total replies 12,316


    Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 12 2008,10:11)

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2008,10:01)

    Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 12 2008,09:49)

    Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 12 2008,09:48)

    Quote (acertainchap @ Jan. 12 2008,09:43)

    Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 12 2008,09:39)
    Only the Father has ever existed.  The Father is greater than Jesus.  Only the Father exists in unapproable Light.

    I agree with you that Jesus shares the nature of the Father.

    But I also think we all will.  This makes the number of the Godhead rather large.

    So yes we will all be elohim.  But amongst us will always be the source of all.  The very head of the Godhead.  The Father of all.


    So you believe in the trinity doctrine, then?


    No.


    A divine family that all share the same nature or substance.

    BUT ONLY ONE ETERNAL FATHER AND SOURCE OF ALL.


    SOL

    Maybe you can show me a scripture that says the Yeshua “Shares” the nature of God?

    :p


    I would hope that you could do that.  If you can’t that shoots down the trinity rather quickly.


    SOL

    Jesus dosnt share the nature of God because he is God.

    :)

    Isnt that Ironic. A Trinitarian hits the 1000 page mark first in the trinity thread!

    :D

    #78048
     Son of Light 
    Member
    • Topics started 9
    • Total replies 427

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2008,10:25)

    Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 12 2008,10:11)

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2008,10:01)

    Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 12 2008,09:49)

    Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 12 2008,09:48)

    Quote (acertainchap @ Jan. 12 2008,09:43)

    Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 12 2008,09:39)
    Only the Father has ever existed.  The Father is greater than Jesus.  Only the Father exists in unapproable Light.

    I agree with you that Jesus shares the nature of the Father.  

    But I also think we all will.  This makes the number of the Godhead rather large.

    So yes we will all be elohim.  But amongst us will always be the source of all.  The very head of the Godhead.  The Father of all.


    So you believe in the trinity doctrine, then?


    No.


    A divine family that all share the same nature or substance.

    BUT ONLY ONE ETERNAL FATHER AND SOURCE OF ALL.


    SOL

    Maybe you can show me a scripture that says the Yeshua “Shares” the nature of God?

    :p


    I would hope that you could do that.  If you can't that shoots down the trinity rather quickly.


    SOL

    Jesus dosnt share the nature of God because he is God.

    :)

    Isnt that Ironic. A Trinitarian hits the 1000 page mark first in the trinity thread!

    :D


    Jesus doesn't “JUST” share the nature of elohim because he is elohim.

    Just as in the beginning when the (plural) elohim created heaven and earth.

    However, Jesus is not the Father. The Godhead is not limited to three.

    ONE ETERNAL SOURCE OF ALL THE FATHER. Not 3 elohim.

    We have ONE FATHER and a huge number of elohim.

    elohim is a god nature.

    But only one is the HEAD and first source of all.

    #78049
     seek and you will find 
    Member
    • Topics started 7
    • Total replies 1,224

    Yes Ironic, but what does that have to do with the trinity. You say that Jesus was God, and I agree that He was, because John 1:1 said so. But He is not the Almighty God, that is Jehovah. What prove do we have that that is true?
    First Jesus Himself said that the Father is greater then I also in John. He does not speak on His own authority, whatever the Father says He will say. Also in Ephesians 4:4-6 It states that there is one Spirit, one Baptism, one Faith, one Lord( when Lord is in small letters it is always Jesus, and if the LORD is in capital letters it is the Father) one God and Father of all, who is above all and in us all.
    Nut this is not going to settle it with you, because you do not have an open mind and want to learn. You just repeat and repeat the same over and over again, that is why we have 1000 pages, that would show you something, it has me.

    #78050
     WorshippingJesus 
    Participant
    • Topics started 50
    • Total replies 12,316


    Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 12 2008,10:44)

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2008,10:25)

    Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 12 2008,10:11)

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2008,10:01)

    Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 12 2008,09:49)

    Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 12 2008,09:48)

    Quote (acertainchap @ Jan. 12 2008,09:43)

    Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 12 2008,09:39)
    Only the Father has ever existed.  The Father is greater than Jesus.  Only the Father exists in unapproable Light.

    I agree with you that Jesus shares the nature of the Father.

    But I also think we all will.  This makes the number of the Godhead rather large.

    So yes we will all be elohim.  But amongst us will always be the source of all.  The very head of the Godhead.  The Father of all.


    So you believe in the trinity doctrine, then?


    No.


    A divine family that all share the same nature or substance.

    BUT ONLY ONE ETERNAL FATHER AND SOURCE OF ALL.


    SOL

    Maybe you can show me a scripture that says the Yeshua “Shares” the nature of God?

    :p


    I would hope that you could do that.  If you can’t that shoots down the trinity rather quickly.


    SOL

    Jesus dosnt share the nature of God because he is God.

    :)

    Isnt that Ironic. A Trinitarian hits the 1000 page mark first in the trinity thread!

    :D


    Jesus doesn’t “JUST” share the nature of elohim because he is elohim.

    Just as in the beginning when the (plural) elohim created heaven and earth.

    However, Jesus is not the Father.  The Godhead is not limited to three.

    ONE ETERNAL SOURCE OF ALL THE FATHER. Not 3 elohim.

    We have ONE FATHER and a huge number of elohim.

    elohim is a god nature.

    But only one is the HEAD and first source of all.


    SOL

    You continue to speak your Polytheistic theology without addressing my questions!

    What attributes does the Father have that the Son dosnt?

    In what way is Jesus different in nature than God?

    So will we dwell in one another?

    Will we fill all things?

    Will we uphold all things by the word of our power?

    Will all things be through us and for us?

    Will we sit in The throne with the Father and the Son being worshipped and praised with the Spirit proceeding from us (not through us) to all of creation?

    Rev 22:1
    And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
    2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.
    3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and *his servants shall serve him*:

    I await your answer!

    :O

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