The Trinity Doctrine is an unnecessary stumbling block

This topic contains 907 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by  Jael 2 weeks, 1 day ago.

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  • #820701
     t8 
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    Hi t8,

    Again you revert to accusations that others are not of the right spirit.

    You make yourself a paragon of truth?

    Nick, I am surprised that you haven’t worked it out for yourself what is going on. Let me enlighten you.

    Your posts for years area basically accusations against other member here. You directly say and infer that other members need to be led by the Spirit. While it is true that we need to be led by the Spirit, what you are saying is you are led by the Spirit and others are not because they hold not your view. And as you admit yourself, you own view changes, thus many of these “not being led by the Spirit” accusations have to be wrong on the basis of your changing view alone. Never mind all the other times you have said it and not changed your mind, but may do so in the future.

    Understanding this, you then only need apply the fact that when you point the finger the finger comes right back at you. It is a principle taught in scripture. When that happens, you then say that you are a victim of accusation when in fact it is a principle that when you judge, you will be judged by the same measure. That said, when I talk about love being the fruit of having the Spirit, this is a true saying. And an important saying. A wise man would take heed.

    #820702
     t8 
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    So you learned by correcting others?

    Yes it is one way of learning. What it does is it makes you study at a deeper level. If it turns out that I was correct, I have more solid evidence. If I am not correct, then that is the time to admit I was wrong and so let others learn from that experience. Humility is needed in the latter.

    #820703
     NickHassan 
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    Hi T8,

    Mirror anyone?

    I learned by listening.

    Test all things and hold fast to what is good.

     

    Let go the hand of catholic tradition.

    #820704
     Jael 
    Participant
    • Topics started 6
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    t8, I understand why you are reposting something I have already answered you. I notice you don’t respond when you are proved wrong but instead try to pick out the whitened bones for your meat.

    Just to reiterate. The verse stating that Jesus came in the flesh is rigidly pointed at those who steadfastly refuse to acknowledge that Jesus Christ has come IN PERSON as yet. To believe that he has not yet come is to deny the great act of God and the great sacrifice of said Jesus. It also claims the scriptures is deceiving people. The scriptures says that in time God would send a Saviour who would ‘save his people’ / this what the name ‘Jesus’ (English rendering) means. ALL who call themselves ‘Christians’ or ‘Jews’ believe that God made this promise… but many also believe that God has not yet fulfilled that promise…

    t8, THAT is what that verse means.

    It DOES NOT MEAN or imply ‘Jesus as a Spirit BECAME FLESH’ (that Jesus PRE-EXISTED as a Spirit) – That is a trinitarian and JW false claim.

    Jesus the Christ was born as a sinless and holy human being in the manner of Adam so as to give parity in the requirement of God that a sinless and holy man should give his blood and die (A terrible thing for sinless one) for the atonement of the sin of Adam (the whole of humanity, in effect!)

    #820711
     t8 
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    Not true Nick or Jael. I answer a question if it is fair. Sometimes I miss questions because I do not read every single word in the forums and also if the person has not answered the question and rambles on to detract from the question. It has nothing to do with ignoring difficult questions because they might prove me wrong. I invite such because I truly want to be without blemish. God is my witness. So it could be bearing false witness if you accuse me of this. Sure I understand if you thought this was genuinely the case, but if not, then you are bearing false witness. In your heart you know which. I leave that to you and God.

    Nick, I see you cannot stop condemning people. I argue against false doctrines, you seem to just accuse people, but do not subject yourself to the same level of judgement. There is a big difference between the two. I have never been a Catholic like yourself. Instead, my views are formed by scripture themselves such as:

    The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

    Now you can see why I believe as I do.  Nothing to do with be being a secret Catholic. It says that God made all things through the son and that he is before all things. We also read elsewhere that the Word became flesh and God made all things through the Word. If God made all things through the Word and the Son, then did he make all things through two or are they they same? Further, we know that Adam was from Earth, and Jesus from Heaven.

    It is scripture that forms my view. A simple truth for you to digest.

    #820712
     t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 884
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    @jael

    You say that he didn’t come in the flesh. If you argument is to solidify this position, then what is the use of me even reading your argument. I wouldn’t dare beleive that he didn’t come in the flesh. Until you can tell me you repent and believe that he did come in the flesh, then what is the use in hearing the details?

    I start your posts, but they make no such admission. If you do repent, then place it at the top of your post and I am all ears.

    #820715
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
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    Hi T8,

    Surely you know that it is the Spirit that creates?

    Ps 104

    Creation was not done by a preexistent man.

     

    Men like us were conceived and born.(and Jesus of Nazareth who was like us)

     

    You do need to learn spiritual things and let go of what tradition taught you.

    God wrote scripture in such a way so as to confuse natural men.

    1cor 2

    #820717
     NickHassan 
    Participant
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    Hi T8,

    There is no condemnation in Christ Jesus.

    Why do hear condemnation?

    #820718
     NickHassan 
    Participant
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    Hi T8,

    Jesus Christ came in the flesh.

    But you cannot read this spiritually and you use it as an excuse to judge.

     

    You patronise but we have a Heavenly Father thanks.

     

    #820722
     NickHassan 
    Participant
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    • Total replies 69,855

    Hi T8,

    Do you believe Jesus was conceived in Mary?

    Was Mary sinless and holy too or a daughter of Adam?

    #820723
     Ed J 
    Participant
    • Topics started 155
    • Total replies 27,914

    Hi T8,

    Yes we should be humble enough to admit we have erred.

    I have changed and learned a huge amount since coming here through a wide variety of vessels such as Gene.

    What of you?

    That is great to hear and is encouraging. Would be nice if there were more posts like this.

    Yes of course, I have learned a lot through here. Particularly when refuting others. It strengthens what I already know. On other matters, I have seen that I cannot be too definite on some things as before because they are truly obscured in scripture as pointed out to me by some members here. Others have shown me things that I may likely have missed and so being informed through them has been very helpful. As for completely changing a core tenet, that hasn’t happened here. It certainly happened to me before this forum. I use to believe and argue for the Trinity. I also subscribed to a certain end time eschatological view, but since this forum have opened up to other views. EdJ helped me there.

    Thank you T8!

    I suppose what you have learned most form me: is not what to believe, but how to fight!
    This has been a passion of mine. I love you both too! Thank you for excepting me T8!

    _______________
    Your brother
    in Christ
    Ed J

    #820724
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 69,855

    Hi T8,

    You teach that Jesus was born Holy and anointed with the Spirit.

     

    He said not to call him good.

    He did not manifest any of the gifts of the Spirit till after the Jordan.

    The disciples manifested those gifts immediately after Pentecost

     

    Was Jesus not serious when he said

    ”follow me”

    #820725
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 69,855

    Hi T8,

    Jesus was conceived as several scriptures attest.

    Was he already a man in heaven when that happened?

    If he was conceived surely Mary contributed to his being?

    #820726
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 69,855

    Hi T8,

    Are you suggesting that you offer sound teaching while others tickle ears?

    Watch yourself and watch your teaching.

    #820728
     miia 
    Participant
    • Topics started 25
    • Total replies 1,454

    Has anyone read the fiction book called ‘A Canticle For Leibowitz’? It’s about Christian Monks who protect some ancient writings /relics after the world is reduced almost to dust.

    If anyone is interested… the well protected earliest church writings may give some insight. That is the ones held by the Christian Orthodox. I’m thinking of restudying them.

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