The Trinity Doctrine is an unnecessary stumbling block

This topic contains 907 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by  Jael 3 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #820610
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Nick…if jesus body never pareshed, then where is it? When did he dump it and where did he. You simply don’t understand the body God originally gave us could have lived for ever like it was, and he will restore our bodies to it intend condition. Why did God say it was all good what he created in the first place if somehow he gaves us a corruptable body in the first place. Jesus still has his original body powered by the spirit of life, which is the tree of life, our bodies do not have to change, but simply be changed from mortal to immortal. But still it’s still our bodies that are raised, just as scripture says.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

    #820620
     t8 
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    @nickhassan

    He is a man just like you-body ,soul and spirit.

    Jesus of Nazareth was anointed with the Holy Spirit and power.

    Do you teach he was born without a natural human spirit?

    Funny you should say that. I thought that was what your teaching alluded to. A Jesus who is flesh, then getting a Spirit at Jordan and being possessed by God thus making him God and the flesh being a vessel with no mention of what happened to Jesus. Was he sacrificed, was he alive but not in control, was he alive but kept quiet? Lots of questions. There is a name for that belief, I saw it in a video the other day regarding herecies. Perhaps you could tell me the term if you know it?

    I definitely believe that Jesus was a man like us in that he came in the flesh and has a soul and even spirit like us.

    But, I also do not hold to the Ordinary Jesus Brigade doctrine that says he was as we are before Jordan or was always like us. No, he was so much more than us even before Jordan. Read the following and rejoice at the good news or weep if you so choose.

    We are of the first man Adam, but God sent another a second man who was from Heaven. So the ordinary Jesus doctrine breaks down immediately because we are not from Heaven and Jesus was. Then he was fathered by the Holy Spirit and we were not. He was BORN holy as a baby, while we were not.

    ◄ Luke 1:35 ►
    The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.

    ◄ 1 Corinthians 15:47 ►
    The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.

    And we know from previous discussions that Jesus was definitely born the Lord and the messiah as it is clearly written for us as the truth.

    Amen! The truth prevails.

    #820621
     t8 
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    @jael

    t8, I see you have no intention to answer my question but instead to post reply evasive responses.

    Let me then put some propositions to you which you will agree to and I will say, ‘Why didn’t you just reply to me like this?’

     

    The funny thing is I cannot read minds Jael. You asked:

    t8, can you explain what you mean by: ‘Jesus is the unique son of God’?
    In your opinion, what is it that marks Jesus’ as unique, and, what does it mean that he is [a] son?

    So as you can see, I was not trying to avoid the question you had in your mind because I cannot read minds. I just answered the question as you wrote it. True story.

    #820622
     t8 
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    1) Jesus was born as Human Being, not a pre-existent ‘god-thing’ in a human body?

    2) That this same Jesus was samely Born Holy and Sinless in the manner of the first Human Being in Scriptures, Adam? That this Jesus resisted temptation and sin and thus remained SINLESS and HOLY thoughtout his life and into life as a heavenly Being.

    3) That ‘Son of God’ does not mean a ‘pro-creation’ from a Spirit (We know from scriptures that a spirit cannot pro-create, yes?). That ‘Son of God’ means exactly what Jesus spoke to the Jews:’One who does the works of the Father; the works of God’ ‘I only said I was Son of God… if I am not doing the works of my Father…’ and another verse say,’Everyone who follows the Holy Spirit are children of God’.

    1) The Word became flesh. Jesus Christ came in the flesh. The Lord and messiah was born in Bethlehem.

    2) That Adam was from earth and Jesus from heaven.

    3) The Son of God is the prototype offspring of God. He is the image of the invisible God. All things were created through Him and for Him and he is before all things.

    #820624
     Jael 
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    Gene, it certainly appears that there is some truth in what you just said regarding mankind sinning.

    If Adam had not sinned then it seems most likely that one of his offspring would at some time.

    Yes, God had planned for a Saviour for such a situation: a contingency.

    Remember that God requires a blood sacrifice from a pure sinless man in order to appease the sin of [whomever]… God waited and searched but everyone of mankind sinned after the fashion of his patriarch father, Adam… even though some came close: Noah, even Abraham, even Moses, even David and Solomon… none were found pure and sinless enough to occupy the position of ‘Son of God’.

    When God saw that no one of the bloodline of Adam could fulfil the role, he brought forth one in the same manner AS ADAM… and subjected this one to the same conditions, in fact, WORSE, than that of Adam, and, yes, Jesus endured – despite ALMOST SLIPPING near the end: ‘Father, if this cup could be taken from me: if there was another way…!? But never the less, let it be YOUR WAY!’

    (Ask a trinitarian, if Jesus is God, why was Jesus afraid of dying?)

    #820625
     Jael 
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    t8,

    1) The Word became flesh. Jesus Christ came in the flesh. The Lord and messiah was born in Bethlehem.

    2) That Adam was from earth and Jesus from heaven.

    3) The Son of God is the prototype offspring of God. He is the image of the invisible God. All things were created through Him and for Him and he is before all things.

    1) ‘Jesus’ is NOT whom scriptures says came in the flesh. It is the WORD that came, God’s Word, God’s PROMISE OF A SAVIOUR (a Christ). John the Baptist did not call Jesus,’The word’ but rather, ‘The Light’:

    John 1: 6-‘There was a man sent from God…,’ (Note that “sent from God does not mean ‘is God’ ”) ‘…whose name was John This man came as a witness of the Light, that all through him (the Light) might believe. He (John) was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light’.

    Whom did John the Baptist bear witness to?

    2) In what was was Jesus [the] Christ born? Was it not in the same manner as Adam… was it not through the breath of God, the Holy Spirit, and not of the seed of sinful man ? In this way BOTH Adam and Jesus were SINLESS AND HOLY: ‘Sons of God’?

    3) t8, your post here is ultra-vague, literally a cut and paste of nonsense. The ‘prototype’ Son is AFTER Jesus completed his task… You cannot call something untested ‘Complete’.

    And, ‘offspring of God’… what does that mean? Did you just throw those words in hoping they would seem impressive… sorry, waste of time!

    The term, ‘image of God’ was ALSO given to Adam, and Adam was ALSO called, ‘Son of God’… so ‘prototype’ cannot refer to BOTH the sinner and the sinless at the same times. Didn’t you read ‘prototype’ as being AFTER Jesus was raised from the dead and taken up to heaven?

    t8, ‘All things were created THROUGH him (meaning Jesus Christ)’? Where do you read those words in scriptures and find them cohesive with scriptures… Does scriptures not say that ‘GOD ALONE’ created all things? Are you turning binitarian now in your old age of hosting?

    #820626
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Jael….brother, i do not think it was a contingency or backup plan, but was planned from the get go. That is why it says Jesus was sacrificed from the foundations of the earth. It was a1l in Gods plan from the beginning. Everything that has happened sence creation was Gods doing, that is why He offered up His Sacrifice for all sins , because He takes credit for it al1. Both good and evil.

    Just as a man in would have to take a sacrifical Lamb and offer it up to sacrifice for his sins, so God the Father offered up his only begotten son, for the sins of the whole world , He is taking full responsibility for it all, and in so doing removes it from us. But that is what it took to give us the real understanding of good and evil, we all needed so we could become like him. Just as it is said , look man has become as we are , Knowing Good (and) Evil. All of this was needfull in His creative worksm of making ys more like Him. He takes responsibility and glory for it All.

    Peace and love to you and yours………gene

    #820627
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Jael, you are right many take Jesus to be the word himself, not understanding that the word which is God came to be in the man Jesus. Many think the word christ means the man Jesus, when in fact it is the (anointing spirit) given the man Jesus at the Jordan river when he recieved it. That is when the word (came to be IN) the man Jesus. The word never (became) flesh as many assume, that is impossible, because the word is spirit, and spirit is not flesh.

    The anointed one is not himself that anointing he recieved after his berth as Jesus did. I am glad you understand these things brother.

    Peace and love to you and yours…….gene

    #820628
     Jael 
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    Gene, yes, Jesus BECAME ‘The Christ’ at his baptism at the river Jordan. You rightly state that it means, ‘Anointed [one]’, which is exactly what occurred to him.

    But it also means, ‘Chosen One’.

    If Jesus was God Almighty, isn’t it a strange thing that ALMIGHTY GOD should say to him, ‘This is my son in whom I am well pleased!’?

    This would certainly draw an image of Almighty God blessing ALMIGHTY GOD for being ‘Well Pleasing’? But how could Almighty God be anything other than ‘Well Pleasing’… oh well, I guess a trinitarian would say, ‘Exactly, God was well pleased with Jesus in a human body still being God!’ (Trinitarians do not like using the title ‘Almighty God’ because even they recognise that ONLY THE FATHER is ALMIGHTY and that Jesus IS NOT!!)

    #820633
     NickHassan 
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    Hi T8,

    You say Jesus was born with a spirit like us.

    No you do not really mean that because you think his Spirit was the Holy Spirit which we are not born with.

     

    You do not think he is a man but a demigod.

    #820634
     NickHassan 
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    Hi T8,

    Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.

    Understand this verse spiritually and you are learning.

    #820655
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Jael…Yes it would have created a (IMAGE) of Jesus being a GOD , AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT TOOK PLACE. Fallen christanity through the false teachings of the Gnostic’s, creaed a false Jesus. Which is accepted today in nearly all christanity. This false (IMAGE) OF THE MAN JESUS being a prexisting GOD IS EXACTLY WHAT HAS CREATED “THE MAN OF SIN” spoken of in 2Ths 2.

    There is no “Real” man of sin, the man of sin is simply a false (IMAGE) of JESUS HIMSEL, CREATED BY Satan himself in THE FALLEN OR APOSTATE CHURCHES, IT IS A “LIE” ABOUT JESUS, which Jesus out of his own mouth will abolish at his return. Remember what it says, because they recieved no the love of the truth God will send unto them a deludng spirit, inorder for them to believe a LIE. That “LIE” IS ABOUT JESUS HIMSELF.

    JAEL, remember what God the Father said, “you shall have no other God besides me”, and we are not to “Make any “IMAGE” OF HIM in heaven above or earth beneath”. Making a false image ofJesus being a God, and worshiping him as such, turns the real JEASUS in the minds of those preaching him as such into “man of sin”.

    God bless you and anyone else to understand this Jael.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

    #820656
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Gene,

    Theological convolutions to bolster your weak case?

    #820657
     Jael 
    Participant
    • Topics started 6
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    Yes, Gene, trinity certain makes a false image of the Son of God: ‘Jesus, a man sanctified by God’…

    When scriptures calls Jesus, ‘a Man’, Trinitarians ignore it. They, instead, try to force innocent verses to claim that Jesus is saying he is God…even when Jesus goes out of his way to say, ‘I am not God’.

    In fact, Jesus saying, ‘I AM not God’, would convince Trinitarians that Jesus WAS saying he was God…!!!

    #820658
     GeneBalthrop 
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    NICK…..PERHAPS,WEAK to those who may not understand the truth in this. Maybe it would be more helpfull to explain why you say the ‘SEVEN SIRITS OF GOD, mentioned in scruptures are really seven angels, according to your “weak thelogical convolutions” of scriptures.

    I have explained what i have said, and ask you many questions about it, and you have faild to address any of them, you are in hardly a position to speak of a weak theological convolutions imo. Tell me Why do you try to hinder the truth of scriptures because of your lack of understanding?

    Let him who has an ear hear what the spirit is saying, concerning 2 Ths 2. You seem to have no truth concerning it, or at least you never shown you have. So why criticize anyone who does, rather me or anyone else?

    Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

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