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Nick,
It is a waste of my time if you are not interested enough in the answer to see for yourself.
There is no mention of charity in the whole list. Goodness or love can cover it and any every other fruit literally mentioned or not.
Nick,
I am not sure why the AV of the King James bible used the word charity for Love but charity is part of love.
An example of charity is to give what you have the poor and you will be rewarded in heaven.
Reason is important in spiritual matters because God reveals truth and he wants us to understand that truth. He wants us to reason together with him.
Reason is not always just man trying to work stuff out, but can include pondering and meditating on that which God has revealed in order to understand it as deeply as possible.
Take the Trinity Doctrine for example. It is not hard to reason the errors in it. But if you remove reason and say that we accept things without reason, then is that not the very thing that proponents of the Trinity Doctrine have done?
There is a reason for everything but doing things without a reason can be considered reckless or careless. But God wants us to have the answer to questions regarding that which we believe. If we throw reason out the window, then we end up with statements with no understanding and accept them based on feelings or because we think we should.
Can we use reason to test the teaching and the spirits?
Hi t8,
Those who are led by the Spirit are the sons of God.
Reason demands control over us.
But the wind comes.
Surely being led by the Spirit and reasoning with God is not necessarily at odds.
To understand the things of God is better than not understanding them.
Hence prophecy is a greater gift than tongues unless it comes with interpretation.
God says, “let us reason together”. If he says that, then who are we to argue,
So be led by the Spirit, yes. And reason with God, not against him.
Reason is related to the human mind, and is vital for natural understanding – yet (as should be obvious) the things of the Spirit are far above and beyond the intellect and logic of man..
Nicodemus is the perfect illustration of this – he, as a distinguished teacher in Israel, could not comprehend with his natural mind the very basic things of the Spirit, as Jesus revealed…
Many of Jesus’ disciples left off following Him simply because they stumbled over understanding spiritual things (John 6:66)..
So it is with those who stumble on the Trinity – they rely on logic, when logic alone is completely insufficient to comprehend it..
Faith – true faith, is dependent on hearing the voice of the Master…yet the serpent of carnal reasoning will always come and seek to beguile us, suggesting we rely instead on our own understanding, thus leading us away from the true path of dependence on God’s Word, back to the doubtful reasonings of man..
If you are born again, I would ask you this question: How did you first become a believer in Yeshua..? Was it by reason that you arrived at the personal knowledge of needing a Savior ? – or was it through the inner work of the Spirit revealing to your heart the reality of Jesus Christ…??!!
The true walk of faith is dependent on the revelation of the Spirit, and we must never deviate from this divine path – logic (in this context) is quite simply the voice of man that would attempt to lead us back again to relying on our own natural abilities, instead of God..
Scripture states: “Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.” (Proverbs 3:5)
“Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.” (Jeremiah 17:5)
“The man that wandereth out of the way of understanding shall remain in the congregation of the dead.” (Proverbs 21:16)
Hi davidl,
Good points.
But trinity is not written.
It is not of true faith. Revelation reminds us of the words of Jesus Christ.
Thanks Kerwin.
DavidL, if you throw away all reason and sensibility that God gave you, then you can believe in anything because you won’t need to check them out and test them, simply because you refuse to understand them. If the consensus was that God was five members, then you would preach that, lest you be the different one and challenge it.
This is perhaps why you have subscribed to a triune God instead of believing as Paul said, “for us there is one God the Father”.
I reason from Paul’s words, that there is one God, the Father. Yet you magically see three. Is it true that you do not reason at all?
If God reveals himself via his spirit and is described in inspired scripture, then reason with that. We do not subscribe that you reason with your own understanding, but that you renew your MIND with the word of God. Nowhere are we told to throw our mind away. If you do, then yes, the Trinity can be taken in faith and not tested to see if it is so.
DavidL,
You say:
Reason is related to the human mind, and is vital for natural understanding – yet (as should be obvious) the things of the Spirit are far above and beyond the intellect and logic of man..
Job says:
Job 9:14American Standard Version (ASV)
14 How much less shall I answer him, And choose out my words to reason with him?
Paul did:
Acts 17:17American Standard Version (ASV)
17 So he reasoned in the synagogue with Jews and the devout persons, and in the marketplace every day with them that met him.
Why do you dare condemn better humans than you?
DavidL,
Nicodemus is the perfect illustration of this – he, as a distinguished teacher in Israel, could not comprehend with his natural mind the very basic things of the Spirit, as Jesus revealed…
Nicodemus probably did understand Jesus as his follow up actions were favorable to him.
As a student he asked questions showing a great humility for one that was called a teacher of Israel. If all the teachers of Israel had been like him then Jesus would not have been put to death.
He is not a good example of one that has a natural mindset.
John 6 and John 8 have some good examples as they contain accounts of people who did not believe what Jesus said and in some cases those same people made absurd interpretations and then either did not like what Jesus said or continued with misunderstanding him despite his efforts to be better understood.
Hi KW,
And the responses given to Nicodemus were of divine wisdom.
Only with the help of the Spirit can they be grasped.
Nick,
Hi KW,
Human wisdom does not get a good press in scripture.
But you admire it?
Are you saying Job and Paul’s word’s are based on human wisdom?
Their reasoning is inspired because it comes from God.
God commands us to reason with him and the only way that can be done is if he himself uses reason.
His reason is not human reason.
Peter declared Jesus was the Christ the Son of the living God.
Were his word human words or the words of God?
Be careful of what you condemn less you be condemned.
Nick,
I am not positive but what is written about him reveals he was favorable to Jesus.
John 7:50-53American Standard Version (ASV)
50 Nicodemus saith unto them (he that came to him before, being one of them),
51 Doth our law judge a man, except it first hear from himself and know what he doeth?
52 They answered and said unto him, Art thou also of Galilee? Search, and see that out of Galilee ariseth no prophet.
John 19:38-40American Standard Version (ASV)
38 And after these things Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, asked of Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took away his body.
39 And there came also Nicodemus, he who at the first came to him by night, bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about a hundred pounds.
40 So they took the body of Jesus, and bound it in linen cloths with the spices, as the custom of the Jews is to bury.
Nick,
Hi KW,
Peter was told his words were by the Holy Spirit.
Do not elevate the human above the divine.
Hi KW,
The mind of Christ does not need to reason with God.
The old is subject to the new.
Your objections are dodging the truth.
The bottom line is not every word a human speaks in a human word and not every argument a human being makes is human reasoning.
Give up your ungodly traditions and believe the word of God.
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