The soul

This topic contains 1,221 replies, has 37 voices, and was last updated by  GeneBalthrop 2 months, 2 weeks ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #831814
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,595

    Hi Gene,

    I do not think scripture is pagan but you do think so?

    But you cannot seem to put scripture ahead of your own ideas.

    You have become lawless and enlightened only by your human intellect.

     

    #831815
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,595

    Hi Gene,

    So long as you continue just to believe in your own definition of death then you cannot accept the teaching of Jesus.

    Locked into the worldly view you will never know that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as well as Jesus are alive and among the great crowd of witnesses to our lives.

     

    #831821
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,595

    Hi Gene,

    If you choose to not believe that Jesus, alive in the Spirit, visited the spirits in prison after his death on Calvary and before he was raised from the grave then your argument is with Peter and the Spirit Who inspired his words.

    But you have always preferred your own insights to what is written.

    #833909
     GeneBalthrop 
    Participant
    • Topics started 42
    • Total replies 16,492

    Nick…Now, now, i do believe scriptures, but not nessarely the way some interpret them brother. Jesus told us he was “dead” for three days and nights, and “now” is alive forever more. See to me dead does not equal to alive. So you see i believe exactly what he said he was, but you seem to think he escaped real death, so i would ask you, did Jesus actually die for your sins or not? According to your version he did not, seems you are reading a different bible then we are.

    I say Jesus truly “died” and was “dead”, without any activity, untill he was resurected, and became a “living soul” again.

    You believe people keep on “living” when they die, ì don’t i believe t h ey are truly dead, and do nothing till they are resurected back to life again, as Jesus.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

    #833920
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,595

    Hi Gene,

    Lazarus sleeps.

    Lazarus died.

    Jesus died.

    Now alive in the Spirit he visited the spirits in prison.

    You cannot grasp the real meaning of life because you do not yet know the Spirit of life.

    #834037
     GeneBalthrop 
    Participant
    • Topics started 42
    • Total replies 16,492

    Nick…your form of “mystery religion” is false, Jesus truly did die, and wen’t no where till he was recurected back to life. Lazarus died and is still dead waiting the resurection, Just as the richman , you completely misunderstand the “parable” of Lazarus and the rich man. GO FIND ON THE INTERNET A H MARTIN, and read his explanation about it , Anthony has posted it, read it and then understand what Jesus was talking about. It has nothing to do with where a man goes when he dies or in your case dosen’t actually die.

    You believe what you want IN YOUR “MYSTERY RELIGION”, i’ll believe what GOD THE FATHER SAID HAPPENS WHEN A MAN DIES, And according to him, a man goes back to dust from whence he was taken. But you know better then he does it seems.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

    #834039
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,595

    Hi Gene,

    Lazarus was sleeping till awakened by Jesus.

    He sleeps again alive in the Spirit.

     

    Can AHMartin improve on the teachings of Jesus?

    #834043
     Anthony 
    Participant
    • Topics started 0
    • Total replies 663

    Hi Nick

    The body and the resurrection

    Yes, our bodies will be raised not spiritually or ethereally, but physically and materially. Our souls will be reunited with our transformed physical bodies, brought back to life from the dead. Scripture teaches this in many ways.

    First, simply to speak of a “resurrection” of the dead (Matthew 22:30-31Luke 14:141 Corinthians 15:521 Thessalonians 4:16) is to imply physicality. That is what a resurrection is. The Bible has no categories for the concept of a resurrected body that remains dead and physically lying in a grave.

    Second, Philippians 3:20-21teaches us that Christ’s resurrection body is the pattern of our resurrection body: “For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory.” We know that Christ was raised in a physical body because the disciples ate with Him after the resurrection (Acts 10:41) and touched Him (Matthew 28:9; see also John 20:27). Also, Jesus outright declared that His resurrection body was physical and touchable: “See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have” (Luke 24:39; see also Acts 13:33-37). Since Christ’s resurrection is the pattern of our resurrection, we will therefore be raised in a physical body as well.

    Third, Romans 8:21-23 speaks of waiting for “the redemption of our bodies” (v. 23). Our bodies are not going to be thrown away. They are going to be renewed, restored, revitalized.

    Fourth, Jesus speaks of the resurrection as involving the coming forth of individuals out of their tombs, which clearly indicates a physical concept of the resurrection: “Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment” (John 5:28-29).

    Fifth, the Old Testament speaks of the resurrection as being physical: “And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2). Likewise, we read in Job: “I know that my Redeemer lives, and at the last He will take His stand on the earth. Even after my skin is destroyed, yet from my flesh I shall see God; Whom I myself shall behold, and whom my eyes shall see and not another. My heart faints within Me” (Job 19:25-27

    Next what is the soul and the lie of the serpent. ” You shall not die” God bless Nick.

    #834044
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,595

    Hi Anthony,

    The Body of his glory.

    Did you miss this?

    I feel sorry for those who expect to see the Lord in a tattered and torn bloodless flesh body.

    But then they also teach that all will be saved.

    2 Jn 9

    #834054
     Anthony 
    Participant
    • Topics started 0
    • Total replies 663

    Hi Nick

    What is the soul?

    The key question is: ‘Are dead people conscious or not?’

    Let us consider what the Bible has to say in answer to this question.

    Psalm 6:5
    For in death there is no remembrance of You; In the grave who will give You thanks? 

    Ecclesiastes 9:10
    Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going. 

    Isaiah 38:18 
    For Sheol (the grave) cannot thank You, Death cannot praise You; Those who go down to the pit cannot hope for Your truth. 

    Psalm 115:17
    The dead do not praise the LORD, Nor any who go down into silence. 

    Why do Christians not believe these clear scriptures, which categorically disprove the doctrine of the immortality of the soul? Notice, the Bible says that when a person dies his memory ceases, he cannot praise God and he has no knowledge or wisdom. In other words, the soul of a person without a body is not conscious.

    The concept of the immortal soul was the result of pagan beliefs developed by Greek poets and philosophers. The Greek philosopher Plato fully developed the concept of the immortal soul, and this belief infiltrated the Roman Catholic Church and subsequently the Protestant churches.

    The Bible teaches resurrection, which is a rising from the dead. This is in direct opposition to the pagan belief in an immortal soul. Resurrection is the glorious central truth of the Bible. The Bible says that Jesus Christ accomplished resurrection (immortal life) for each and every person through His death on the cross and His resurrection from the dead.

    1 Corinthians 15:21-22
    21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

    This proves that the dead will live again in a conscious state, but only when they are resurrected in their immortal bodies and not a second before that. Death is an enemy, which Jesus Christ destroyed through His death and resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:26). The victory, which Christ has won for Adam and Eve and all of their descendants, is the resurrected life, which God will give to everyone in the future; first to the Bride of Christ, the Firstfruits, in the First Resurrection, and then to the rest of humanity, the Great Harvest, in the Second Resurrection.

    The false teaching of the immortal soul undermines the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It makes redundant the need for the resurrection of the dead, and makes redundant the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross. If a dead person remains conscious after his death and he is judged immediately to go to either heaven or hell, then why would there be a need for God to resurrect him or a reason for God’s Great White Throne Judgement?

    Let us now go on to understand what the Bible means by the term ‘a living soul’.

    Genesis 2:7 (KJV)               
    And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul (nephesh).

    Notice, this verse tells us that Adam became a living soul, and not that Adam had a soul. A living soul simply means a living being as translated in other versions of the Bible, like the NKJV. Adam became a living soul after God breathed the breath of life into his body. The breath of life is the spirit in man, the human spirit, which Apostle Paul says all human beings possess.

    1 Corinthians 2:11
    For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? 

    A person becomes a living soul when he is conceived. It is when his human spirit sent from God unites with his embryonic body, the zygote, at conception. The Bible says that an animal is also a living soul. The Hebrew word in Genesis 2:7 for the ‘living soul’ of human beings is nephesh. This same Hebrew word is also used for animals and translated as ‘living creatures’, for example, in Genesis 1:21.

    Genesis 1:21 (KJV)
    And God created great whales, and every living creature (nephesh) that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

    People and animals are all living souls. A person becomes a living soul, a human being, at conception. Likewise, an animal becomes a living soul, a living creature, when its animal spirit unites with its embryonic animal body at conception. So, both a man and an animal are living souls each comprising of a spirit united with a body. It is the human spirit that makes us human beings made in the image of God, giving us our unique individual characteristics, body form and personalities. It is the animal spirit that makes animals unique to their species with their individual characteristics, body forms and behaviours.

    When a person dies, his fleshly human body goes back to the dust, but his unconscious human spirit with all of his individual characteristics and personality intact, returns to God who gave it, for safe keeping until the person’s resurrection.

    Ecclesiastes 12:7
    Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it. 

    The Bible clearly says that the body without the spirit is dead.

    James 2:26
    For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

    The human spirit is not conscious without a body. Therefore, after death, a person will only become conscious again when his spirit is united with a body, but this time, it is his new immortal body, at the resurrection. Once again, the person will become a conscious living soul, but with an immortal body that will never die. Yes, all people are destined to have an immortal soul but not before they are resurrected. Christ destroyed the last enemy, which is death for all people, through His death and resurrection.

    There is no indication in the Bible that a dead animal will be resurrected, so it appears that animals cease to exist at death.

    Spirit, Soul and Body

    Apostle Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 that a believer’s whole spirit, soul and body are preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    1 Thessalonians 5:23
    Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul (psychē), and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    This scripture is misused and misunderstood by many Christians to preach that man is a tri-partite being composed of three different parts, which are spirit, soul and body. Based on this misconception, an unbiblical theology of spirit, soul and body has been developed and believed by many Christians.

    Apostle Paul was well versed in the Word of God, which categorically teaches that man is a living soul consisting of spirit and body only. So, we can be sure that Apostle Paul did not preach that man is a tri-partite being, contrary to the Word of God.

    In the verse above, Paul was writing to a group of believers in Thessalonica. By referring to the ‘whole spirit, soul and body’, Paul was simply emphasising the fact that God will preserve these believers as blameless (righteous) in all aspects of their life. Please note that the Greek word for ‘soul’ is psychē, which means life. This confirms that Paul was emphasising the preservation of their life in Christ, which believers have now by faith. All believers will be counted as blameless (righteous) to rise in their new immortal glorified bodies at Christ’s Second Coming.

    Our soul is not immortal because the Bible is clear that ‘the soul who sins shall die’.

    Ezekiel 18:4
    Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father As well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die. 

    The whole of the Bible consistently teaches that when a person dies he ‘sleeps’. The phrase ‘slept with his fathers’ occurs 36 times in the Old Testament as in 1 Kings 2:10.

    1 Kings 2:10 (KJV) 
    So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David. 

    A person who is ‘sleeping’ in the grave is not conscious of his surroundings, and he has not ascended into either heaven or entered a so-called ‘hell’.

    John 3:13 (KJV) 
    And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 

    Acts 2:34
    For David did not ascend into the heavens…

    Can we believe what these clear scriptures say? They say that no man has ascended to heaven (except Jesus) and that the dead patriarchs, like David, have not gone to heaven, but are sleeping with their ancestors. The only Person who has ascended to heaven is God’s only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, and heaven is where He came from in the first place. The spirits of all dead people, both believers and unbelievers, are in God’s safe keeping in a state of peaceful slumber until their resurrection.

    Our Christian hope and focus must be on the resurrection, and not on the unbiblical pagan belief of the immortal soul. This is very important. We must get rid of this erroneous thinking of the satanic lie of the immortal soul. Job believed in the resurrection from the dead and not in the immortality of the soul.

    Job 14:13-15 
    13 Oh, that You would hide me in the grave, That You would conceal me until Your wrath is past, That You would appoint me a set time, and remember me! 14 If a man dies, shall he live again? All the days of my hard service I will wait, Till my change comes. 15 You shall call, and I will answer You; You shall desire the work of Your hands.

    Job, who died long ago, is still ‘sleeping’ in his grave waiting to receive his change into his new immortal, glorified, resurrected body. For Job and all true believers, who are the Firstfruits, this change will occur when they rise in the First Resurrection at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

    Resurrection from the dead is described as the victory over death, which Christ has won for Adam and Eve and all of their descendants.

    1 Corinthians 15:54
    So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” 

    Jesus was the first to rise from the dead (the First of the Firstfruits), and He will be followed by all true believers (the Firstfruits), who have died and ‘fallen asleep’, when they rise from the dead in the First Resurrection at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

    1 Corinthians 15:20
    But now is Christ risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 

    Notice that this verse once again confirms that when people die they ‘fall asleep’ and Christ, being the First of the Firstfruits, is the only Person to have risen from the dead. Apostle Paul powerfully preached resurrection and not the false doctrine of the immortal soul, which nullifies the victory over death and the new resurrected life, which Jesus Christ won for everyone on the cross. On the cross, Jesus Christ took away the curse of death, for all of humanity, brought about by the sin of Adam, so that all of humanity will be blessed with resurrection from the dead.

    Why does Traditional Christianity, against all of the clear scriptures given in the Bible, still believe in the survival of a conscious self after death? It interprets this as an ‘intermediate state’. What biblical support does it use to justify its belief in an immortal soul? The most quoted scriptures used by Traditional Christianity to support its belief in the immortal soul are those written by Apostle Paul in 2 Corinthians and Philippians. So, let us look at these scriptures.

    2 Corinthians 5:6-9
    6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. 9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 

    Philippians 1:21-23
    21 For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor; yet what I shall choose I cannot tell. 23 For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better. 

    In these scriptures, Paul says that when he is absent from the body or when he departs (dies), he will be with the Lord. A dead person who is ‘sleeping’ in his grave is not aware of any time gap between the time when he dies (sleeps) and when he wakens up from his sleep, which is when he is resurrected. So, for Paul his first conscious waking moment, after death, will be with Christ, when he is resurrected together with all of the Saints, the 144,000 Firstfruits, to meet Jesus Christ in the air at Christ’s Second Coming.

    Notice, in the verse given below, Paul understood that all believers will be presented together, as a group, to Christ at His Second Coming, and no believer is ever consciously present with Christ before that time.

    2 Corinthians 4:14 
    knowing that He who raised up the Lord Jesus will also raise us up with Jesus, and will present us with you. 

    Throughout his writings, Paul consistently emphasises resurrection and he has nothing whatsoever to say about the immortality of the soul. Notice again, what Paul has to say in the scripture below.

    2 Timothy 4:6-8
    6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing. 

    When will Paul and all of God’s Elect Saints receive their crowns of righteousness? They will receive them on the Day of Christs appearing, which is the Day of Christ’s Second Coming when all of God’s Elect Saints will rise as the Firstfruits in the First      Resurrection.  God bless Nick

    The Father of lies. “Nick, Anthony you shall not die.” Disobey God and eat. When we eat of his fruit we will surely die because ” the wages of SIN is death. The Fruit is rotten.

    #834058
     Anthony 
    Participant
    • Topics started 0
    • Total replies 663

    Hi Nick

    Your post.

    Hi Rudy,
    If we go to God in heaven when we die then what happens when we are resurrected? Do we go back from heaven to earth and away from God and then inhabit again a body? Then do we face the judgement and go back to God?

    Sounds like a busy shuttle service to me and quite unlike the way God usually does things?

    For one thing Nick we don’t go to heaven when we die we are dead in the grave till the resurrection. Just like king David is.

    For the second thing Nick when WE are resurrected we go where Jesus Christ is going to earth. Chrst will be ruling out of Jerusalem and we will rule and reign with Him. We are caught up to meet Him in the air. First those that are dead come out of there grave’s,( Dead = sleep. With in this subject sleep means death) thats extra  Nick.

    Nick you said Sounds like a busy shuttle service to me and quite unlike the way God usually does things? Nick God can do as He pleases it’s His plan, not yours. God bless. You know you might have to drive the shuttle for your mystery religion. more to come.

    The rich man and Lazarus, a parable from start to finish. God bless Nick

    #834060
     GeneBalthrop 
    Participant
    • Topics started 42
    • Total replies 16,492

    Anthony, your post is perfect brother, you and Jodi make a good team, i also believe that way too.
    I have for years tried here to get Nick and others, to understand this, may God help him and others to understand what you and Jodi have written. GOD BLESS YOU BROTHER.

    It is apsolutely crucial we attain to the resurection of the dead, before any life exists for us, once we have died. Just like JESUS, who was truly dead for those three days and nights, and is “now”, after his resurection, alive for evermore, just as he said. He is the “exact” example of what is to take place with us, our resurection will be the same as his, for we will see him as, (the same way) he is.

    Peace and love to you and yours Anthony. ……gene

    #834073
     GeneBalthrop 
    Participant
    • Topics started 42
    • Total replies 16,492

    Nick…ANTHONY AS WELL AS Jodi and I have all told you the truth, but your pride or simply lack of the spirit, will not let you admit it, and if you cannot see the truth in these things shown you, it’s because you simply are not of the truth. You prance around like, we are the ones who do not see ‘spiritual’ truths, but in fact, you are the one denying them, not us, you are deeply emurged in ‘mystery religion” (and call it) “spritual perceptions” by you, that we can’t see because we lack the spirit. But in fact it is you that can see because you have bought into false teaching over the years and it has blinded you from the truth.

    No matter how clear it has been explained to you, you fail to get it, sad.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene

    #834075
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,595

    Hi Gene,

    You have your worldly beliefs.

    You are welcome to them. Imagine still needing to find a toilet after the resurrection-forever.

    #834076
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,595

    Hi Gene,

    Stuck in the view of visible creation you really imagine you will have to satisfy the needs of flesh forever?

    wake up.

Viewing 15 posts - 1,201 through 1,215 (of 1,222 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

© 1999 - 2018 Heaven Net

or

Log in with your credentials

or    

Forgot your details?

or

Create Account