The serpent in the Garden of Eden

This topic contains 563 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  NickHassan 5 months ago.

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  • #821740
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    No the creation of God was very good.

    The rebellion of Eve and Adam and their idolatry of the god of this world is the problem.

     

    #821741
     Jodi 
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    Nick,

    The creation of this world was indeed good, but it was NOT PERFECT. It was not perfect because man was IGNORANT and had the ability to speculate, thus create lies from man’s own imagination.

    Once again you seem to deny the simple scripture that says THROUGH a HUMAN BEING SIN ENTERED.

    You say sin entered because of a supernatural entity that deceived man.

    Tell me this, is your Satan also a creation of God with an independent mind?

    You believe this Satan fell from heaven correct? Which heaven? Surely not God’s righteous abode, where those who are not perfected would be consumed with fire in His presence?

    Was there some other sort of supernatural entity influencing your Satan? …or is he evil from his own mind?

     

    #821742
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Jodi….Who was GOD ADDRESSING when he said to the serpent, ” because you have done this, you shall craw on your belly all the days of your life. Was it Adam, EVE, OR SOMEONE ELSE?

    Peace and love to you and yours…….gene

    #821743
     Jodi 
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    Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness*, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

    1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. 10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while*, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

    The slanderers roaming about searching for whom they may devour are crafting men, men who will crucify those who speak of Christ. The Pharisees questioned Jesus hoping that he would speak a word of which they could use to condemn him. They controlled the power of the air, for it is the wisdom of BLIND MEN following their fleshly desires, it is the natural man, the RULERS who creates the false wisdom of this world.

    Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.#rl 15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. 16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! 17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? 18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever* sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. 19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?#rl 20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon*. 21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.#rl 22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon*. 23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment*, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. 25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. 27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness. 28 Even so ye also* outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. 29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? 34 Wherefore*, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

    1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

    1 Peter 3:16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

    MEN are in FACT CRAFTY THEMSELVES they are the SERPENT, a BEAST SET out to DEVOUR the followers of Christ. The Prince of the power of the air, devours the man who SPEAKS truth, he crucifies him. The Prince/Ruler of the power of the air creates every WIND of FALSE DOCTRINE established through his OWN imaginations and SPECULATIONS.

     

    The “adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour”, are MEN in their OWN CRAFTINESS behaving like a wild beast, like that of a serpent, who ONLY knows how to follow his carnal NATURE. 

    2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

    Jude 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

    That roaring lion that is called a devil is a MAN, he is a brute beast speaking evil by what HE KNOWS NATURALLY.

    Do the scriptures speak truth? …or is it NOT truly by what a man knows naturally because of his ignorance and speculations, but rather what a man knows from the influence of another one of God’s creatures with supernatural powers?

    #821744
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    God was addressing the serpent, the vessel for evil.

    By the judgement of God the vessel too deserved punishment.

     

    #821745
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Jodi….Who do you think God was talking to when said, to the serpent that God had made, Gen 3:14…AND THE LORD GOD said unto the SERPENT, because you have done this, you are cursed above all cattle, and above ever beast of the field, upon your belly shalt you go, and dust shall you eat all the days of your life. Do you think God was talking to the man or was it some one else?

    Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

    #821746
     Jodi 
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    WHY are we compared to WILD BEASTS ? Are all wild beasts and serpents under the influence of a supernatural evil entity, OR are they under the INFLUENCE of their OWN CARNAL NATURE? 

     

    #821747
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    The Devil was a liar and a murderer from the beginning.

    God tolerated his behaviours and used him for His purposes.

    The sifting and separation of men into two groups is the plan of God.

     

    The challenge for all men is which voice will they follow.

     

    #821748
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    The teaching of the brothers is to encourage them to break free from the utter domination of Satan.

    To show them that it was possible to break free from the rule over their bodies and minds by the god of this world.

    Appealing to their faith they taught men to focus on the new Spirit within instead of their corrupted instincts and thoughts.

     

    The battle is within, against sin in the flesh, and the work has to be done by them asking, seeking and knocking.

    #821749
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Men led by Satan are indeed like wild beasts.

    He was a murderer from the beginning.

    #821751
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Gen 4.7

    “.And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and it’s desire is for you, but you must master it.”

    Cain told his Abel his brother.

    And it came about when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him.

     

    So sin entered the door of Cain and sin in the flesh produced the evil fruit.

    #821752
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Indeed Jesus Christ cleaned the inside of the human vessel.

    He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.

    #821775
     Jodi 
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    Hi Gene,

    14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

    Note that scripture does speak of man and beast both dwelling in the land, among the fields. God does bring curses upon them together.

    Yes I think God was talking to mankind. The enmity was not talking about a literal serpent, Genesis 3 is not talking about a literal serpent speaking to Eve.

     

    Was the serpent really more crafty than all of the other living things on land, or was man? Is the serpent really more cursed than all living creatures on land, or is man? Is the serpent’s literal offspring at enmity against the woman’s offspring, or is it man? 

     

    Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. …..17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    Matthew 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? 34 Wherefore*, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

    Jesus was talking to the scribes and the Pharisees calling them serpents and vipers, but he was also speaking of the men that also killed Abel and Zacharias.

    These two passages we see the enmity between the serpent’s seed and the woman’s seed. We know that it is literally men that make war against those who keep the commandments of God, just as Jesus said it was MEN, the scribes and Pharisees, that would crucify God’s wise men. But why are the kings of Revelation 12, and the scribes and Pharisees referred to as serpents?

    We see in Matthew that Jesus called Cain a serpent for killing Abel.

    Genesis 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

    1 John 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother’s righteous.

    Cain was to rule over SIN, Cain was to ruler over HIM, which meant SIN.

    Cain was of the wicked one (or just wicked, depending on which translation you choose)

    Cain was of HIM, the wicked one known as SIN,  because his OWN works were evil. Does not God’s words to Cain and James word to us sound familiar? 

    Sin wants to rule over us and it comes when we give into our own lusts. The fear of death has dominion over us it fuels our own lusts. But yet some say that an evil supernatural entity has dominion over us.

    Romans 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

    God brought forth death and with it came a lifetime of bondage because of the fear of death. Is it an evil supernatural entity that causes us to fear death, or cause living things to live according to their natural instincts having devices for survival?

    Interesting to note that in ancient times serpents represented rebirth and immortality.

    1 Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God…..23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness

    Where does deceitful lusts come from? Psalms 81:12 So I gave them up unto their own hearts’ lust: and they walked in their own counsels. James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

    Adam and Eve lusted after knowledge.

    Did not Christ FEAR death and overcome that fear? Christ could have served himself and not have died on the cross, but he chose to serve God. He did not serve his fear of death and turn away from God’s plan.

    Mark 14:34 “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death,” he said to them. “Stay here and keep watch.” 35 Going a little farther, he fell to the ground and prayed that if possible the hour might pass from him. 36 “Abba,Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.” 

    Proverbs 15:33 The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility.

    Philippians 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

    Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

    Vanity,     Transliterated Mataiotes,  what is devoid of truth and appropriateness

    Isaiah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice’ den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. 

    The animals will no longer be WILD BEASTS, just like man will no longer be a WILD BEAST, serving itself in order to survive.

    Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

    Who is the slanderer in Hebrews 2:14? The FEAR of death brought on by God keeps us in bondage. The POWER of death is the FEAR of death, which is held in our CARNAL NATURE. That nature produces a LIE (SIN), it slanders God, it says that the way to life is to serve ourselves and not God.

    Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

    Jesus DESTROYED the POWER of DEATH, HE overcame the FEAR of DEATH, he did not serve the lie he abolished in his flesh the enmity, he served God.

    Adam and Eve did not fear death, they desired to be wise and through that desire they ate of the tree breaking the commandment of which brought forth death to all and thus the fear of it to all.

    Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

    Adam and Eve were void of truth within their own imaginations, believing they could be wise like God from eating fruit.

    What they were really doing was eating the fruit of their own way. The serpent only knows his own way to serve his belly.

    Proverbs 1:31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.

    Romans 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

    Micah 7:16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf. 17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the LORD our God, and shall fear because of thee. 18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy. 19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

    The enmity was not literally of a serpent’s seed now is it?  Therefore throughout Genesis there is no literal serpent who speaks to Eve.

    The dragon in Revelation’s 12, is not a literal dragon either, the dragon represents kings/princes waging war against the woman’s seed God’s remnant.

    The old serpent does not represent a snake needing to be cursed for being a vessel.

    There was a specific curse given to man, there was a specific curse given to the woman, and there was a curse given to all the living creatures, which to mankind because of their intellect, it was far greater than any other creature.

     

     

     

     

     

    #821776
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Again you take on yourself the role of interpreter of scripture.

    You allegorise what is written in favour of your dogma.

     

     

     

    #821777
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    You surely will not die.

    For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.

     

    I recognise the preference for logic over truth.

     

    Adam did die that day, and likewise none of his descendants reached 1000 years either.

    Ps 90.4, 2 Peter 3.8

     

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