The Matrix

This topic contains 56 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  t8 3 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #781827
     t8 
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    I believe it is because people are hungry for spiritual truth and this movie including the story and characters are similar to the truth found in the scriptures. Please do not get me wrong, I am not saying that the Matrix was made with the Gospel in mind, (maybe it was, maybe it wasn’t), but I am using it as a parable to reflect the Gospel and point out the many similarities between the Message and the Matrix. Either way this movie made you think how easily we can be deceived by the reality that is presented to us. If we see the same reality everyday, we do not question it, yet what we experience everyday is but an atom of truth in a universe and reality far bigger than we can all imagine. Now I am going to show you some similarities when comparing The Matrix with the Gospel.

    Matrix Message

    Basically this movie is about a world that has been created to hide the truth from humans in which people are kept in bondage and slavery without them knowing it. That world is called The Matrix, which is a computer generated world designed to simulate the peak of human civilization which has now been destroyed in a nuclear war. The majority of the world’s population is oblivious to that fact that their world is not real, but digital and they continue living out their daily lives, without even questioning their reality. The main character Neo, knows that something is not right with the world he lives in, and he is eager to learn the truth. He is offered the truth from a character called Morpheus. Morpheus proclaims that Neo is the One (chosen one) who will eventually destroy the Matrix. For this to happen, Neo must first overcome the Sentient Programs who are the Agents that can jump into anyone’s digital body. They are the Gate Keepers and they hold all the keys to The Matrix. This movie reveals the truth gradually and it is this unraveling of the truth that keeps the audience captured.

    Gospel Message

    bibleBasically the gospel message is truth about this world we live in, that is controlled byevil powers in high (spiritual) places. However the earth and the universe were  created/programmed by God; the world system was created by man, but inspired by Satan. Satan is the called the god of this world/age in scripture. This world is full of deception and contains just about every lie in the form of philosophies and religions, but persecutes the truth. All people who trust in the world, are not willing to be unplugged in order to see the truth and the truth can only be revealed to those who are searching for it. So many people live out their daily lives oblivious to the fact that there is a God who created a perfect world/state called Heaven. The bible tells us that we cannot love the world and love God at the same time, so we all have a choice. Do we want the truth or do we want to continue living a lie? In the gospel and scriptures, we find that the main character is God and Jesus (Yashua) is the son of God, who came into this world and altered this reality with countless miracles. He is the chosen one of God who came to free man from bondage to sin and slavery to this world and ultimately to deliver us out of this present darkness and into the glorious light.

    Similarities

    • The Matrix is the world, (not the earth) it is deception.
    • Morpheus represents John the Baptist who’s mission was to proclaim the “Chosen One”.
    • Neo represents the Messiah or any believer who has been born from above by the Spirit of God.
    • The Oracle represents a Prophet.
    • The Agents or Sentient Programs “Gatekeepers” represent the demons who hold the keys to this world. They have the ability to jump into people and use them at their will, just like Demons who can enter into people if they are open to them.
    • Cypher represents Judas Iscariot, but the name may be derived from Caiphus the high priest blamed by history for manipulating Pontious Pilate to kill Christ. It could also be a play on the words Lucifer. In the Matrix, Cypher was one of the group, but chose to go back into the Matrix and betray his friends. He was promised wealth and a measure of fame, instead he was killed. Judas in the Bible did the same thing. He betrayed Jesus for 30 pieces of silver, but later committed suicide.

     

    jesus-baptismNeo’s original name is “Thomas” Anderson and this reflects his unbelief. Neo at first refuses to believe the truth, just like the biblical character known as “Doubting Thomas”, seeing is believing. “Anderson” means “Son of Man”. So he is a doubting Son of Man. His name is later changed to Neo, which means “New”, but Neo is also an anagram of One. He is often called the One in the movie, just as Jesus proclaimed that he was the One. The Chosen One of God.

    Near the beginning of the movie, Neo is told to meet Morpheus under “Adam bridge”. He is picked up in a car and driven to see Morpheus. On the way Neo has the choice to leave them or continue. Trinity tells Neo that she knows that he no longer wants to go down that road, as he knows where it leads too. This reflects the biblical truth that we must leave our old lives in “Adam” the first Son of Man and choose a new life in God through Jesus Christ the second Son of Man or new Adam. As the scriptures say, All in “Adam” die, all in Christ shall live. Had Neo chosen to leave at that point, he would have gone back to his old life by simply getting out of the car. This road represents his old life. Instead however, he chooses the new life by remaining in the car and not going back to Adam bridge. He eventually meets Morpheus who will reveal the truth to him.

    In the movie Neo asks Tank why he doesn’t have a plug in the back of his head like everyone else. Tank says it is because he and his brother Dozer were born free of the Matrix, and he says that he is a true human “A Child of Zion”. Zion is the only city that the humans have left, or the only city where humans are free. In the bible, Zion is the city of David (the great king). The city which God loved and showed his favorand the city of the messiah.

    Near the end of the movie the Agents are trying to get into Morpheus’s head and extract the information and codes to the Zion Mainframe. This is similar to the fact that all those who belong to God are children of Zion, and Jesus has put the Kingdom of God within us. The Bible says that Jesus has also given us the Keys to the Kingdom. The secrets to the Kingdom of God are inside every child of God.

    Morpheus states that “when the Matrix was first built, there was man born inside who could change and shape the Matrix at will, it was he who freed the first of us, the Oracle prophesied his return and when he returns he will hail the destruction of the Matrix”. Well this represents Jesus mission because he was born in the world and he went around doing miracles (shaping this reality), he freed the first people, his disciples and then he died and rose again from the dead, so that he could free all of humanity. It is prophesied that he will return as King and destroy this present world system and bring the world under his rule.

    We see in the ‘The Matrix’, that Neo overcomes the Agents and starts the destruction of The Matrix after he dies and comes back from the dead. This is similar to what Jesus did when he died, because he went to hell and destroyed the power of the one who had the keys of death, that is the Devil. Jesus took the Keys of Death and Hell from him and overcame this world and death itself. Jesus died on the cross, but returned three days later, proving he is indeed “the One” and declaring the end of this world and bringing in the reign of the Kingdom of God. It’s a miracle now celebrated as Easter and the ‘The Matrix’ movie was actually first released on Easter. It also has to be noted that it was Trinity’s love that brought him back from the dead and of course it was God that raised Jesus from the dead and we also know that God is love.

    In the movie, Neo meets the Oracle, but just before he meets her, he sees other potential messiahs. These potentials perhaps represent the many religions such as Buddhism (there is no spoon) and New Age. Of course Neo turns out to be the one, the true Messiah, and this is also reflected in the beginning of the movie when ‘Choi’ tells Neo “Hallelujah. You’re my savior, man. My own personal Jesus Christ”. When Neo finally meets the Oracle, she asks Neo if he is “The One” and she eventually tells him that he “looks like he is waiting for something” and prophetically says “your next life”. This also demonstrates that we all need to except the new life in God that he offers all of us. In the end Neo dies, but comes back, and is able to defeat the Matrix in his new life. Likewise we too can overcome this world when we die to sin and live unto Christ, who is our new life. In our own strength, we cannot defeat the World and the Evil One only when we receive new birth in God through faith. The scriptures say that we must die to ourselves and live unto Christ. Even Christ died to give us life and angelsvictory. And so it is in the Matrix, Neo dies and from this point on, he hails the destruction of the Matrix.

    Notice that Neo had a choice of the red pill or the blue pill. We too have this choice. Do we want to know the Truth (the red pill) or do we just want to forget about it and wake up and believe whatever we want to believe (the blue pill). The color red is also significant, as it represents suffering or blood. It is also interesting to note that many bibles have a habit of putting the words of Jesus in red and we must remember Jesus words, “I am the Way the Truth the Life, no man comes to the Father except through me”. Now we must realize that the truth is not the easy way, and there is measure of persecution for all those who want the truth, (including death for some), just as the agents in the Matrix relentlessly pursued and tried to kill those who were free from the Matrix. But the truth sets us free from our bondage to sin and slavery to this world and wakes us up to the deception and lies that are all around us. Remember that the truth is not the easy way to start with, but it is better than living a lie and in the long term it leads to total freedom and eternal life with God, who is love.

    Also the characters in the Matrix show their disgust at Cypher wanting to be returned to the Matrix and Morpheous even says to Neo at one point, “if you could return to the Matrix, would you want to”. This is a fitting description of how disgusted God is when a believer returns to the world after being set free, “like a dog returning to his own vomit“.

    peter-walking-on-waterThe software training programs in the movie represent the Word of God and the Scriptures that teach and train us, for the battle between Light and Darkness. The jumping program where Morpheus teaches Neo to jump from one building to another, mirrors the experience where Peter walks on water, but because of fear, Peter falls into the water and Jesus reaches out his hand to save him. In the movie Neo also falls when he attempts his first jump from one building to the next. Its all about faith. Morpheous even says to Neo just before he jumps, just let it all go. Jesus said to his disciples cast off the cares of this world and take upon ourselves, only the responsibility that Christ gives us. In other words he was saying, let it go, free yourself from the cares of this world, because the cares of this world, choke the Word of God.

    In the movie, The Matrix is the world that is pulled over peoples eyes, so they cannot see the truth. Well the world we live in is the deception that Satan pulls over our eyes, that blinds us from the truth, that there is a Kingdom far greater than this present world and that kingdom belongs to God who created us. That is why we must have faith and see with our spirits rather than our physical eyes. The Bible says that this world is our enemy and it caters for the sinful desires of men. We must overcome it. The bible also says that the world and all visible things are temporary but the truth is eternal. This world is trying to hide the truth from us. In other words, any philosophy is okay, except the truth.

    The scriptures tell us that we do not fight against flesh and blood, rather spiritual powers. Like it would have been pointless fighting those bound in the Matrix to destroy the Matrix. In the same way the Agents in the Matrix, who hold the keys, needed to be defeated to set the people free from the Matrix. The scriptures tell us that we need to fight the spiritual powers that bind people and not the people themselves, so they can be set free.

    Morpheus and Neo are inside a training program that was very similar to the Matrix itself, (The one where the woman in the red dress appears). Morpheus says to Neo, “If you are not one of us, then you are one of them (an agent)”. This also resembles the words of Jesus, “if you not against us, you are for us“.

    Those that were imprisoned in the Matrix are like those who cannot let go of this world. We are trying to set their minds (soul) free, but they are part of that system and until they are free of the system, the Agents “Demons” can use them.

    Conclusion

    matrix-codeLike the Matrix, the physical world was made. Everything in the physical realm was created (programmed) by God. Galileo once said that God created the world with mathematics. Everything in the physical realm has mathematical code including DNA that makes up your body. In the Matrix the code is digital and the DNA code of a human body in this world is the digital projection of yourself in the Matrix.

    In Luke 19:40-41 we read the following: ‘Some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to Jesus, “Teacher, rebuke your disciples!” “I tell you,” he replied, “if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out.” In other words, nothing can stop God being praised and nothing can stop his message, even if the Church were silent, God could make the stones sing his praises. So does the Matrix preach the gospel? Is it the Gospel on steroids? Well that’s a matter of opinion, but remember this: The rules or laws of The Matrix can be broken in the same way that laws of the physical realm can be broken if we live in the Spiritual Realm.

     

    Salvation

    Only if we know the One, the Chosen One. If you do not know Jesus as your Savior then read on. Jesus Christ the Son of God came to earth to set us free. God created the world through him and for him, yet the world didn’t recognize him, because the world is under the control of the Evil One (Satan). Jesus is the awaited Messiah and the Savior of this world. He is our only way for us to reach God. Jesus suffered and died and rose again, so that you could be set free from all deception which comes from your own sins, this world and the Devil. Romans 3:23 says for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, John 3:16 tells us that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whomever would believe in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life. If you would like to be saved from this world which leads to sin then destruction, and come into Gods glorious light then please feel free to pray (in red) the prayer below. If you mean what you say then God can work with this confession to reveal all truth to you gradually as you are ready and willing. You will then be able to fulfill the special purpose that you were created for. It is true that you can really know God and you were created to worship him in a unique and special way that God made for you and no one else. Saying this prayer is like taking the Red Pill. Your life will begin to tumble down a rabbit hole as you begin to see the truth. You must be willing and teachable. God cannot work with you if you harden your heart. If however, you think this is just a load of garbage, then you are welcome to take the blue pill and believe whatever you want to believe. At this point you might as well leave this page, but I pray that God will have mercy on your soul and give you other opportunities in the future. Only you can make this decision. If you want to take the red pill, then read on.

     A prayer

    Dear Heavenly Father.
    I come to you in the name of Jesus.
    I ask you to forgive me from my sin as I forgive everyone who has sinned against me.
    I believe Jesus is the Son of God and He died for my sins.
    I declare to you that I will serve you and obey you for the rest of my life and I ask for your strength right now so I will not fall back into my old life.
    I will serve you Lord starting from now and I pray that you would help me to hear your voice, so I can be lead by your Spirit.
    Please save me from temptation and deliver me from all evil.
    I ask you Lord for the strength to love you more than anything else.
    I also ask you Lord that you help me to meet the right people that will help me and encourage me to love and serve you more.
    Amen 

    Some Advice

    If you prayed to God and really meant what you said, then you have clearly invited God to come into your life. It is now up to you to listen, talk to and obey God. If you continue in your faith till the end of this life, you will continue to live with God in his dwelling place. Your next step is to ask a believer about baptism. Once you are baptized, you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit and you will become an empowered believer.

    It is also important for you to associate with others who have true faith in God, so you can be trained and encouraged in God’s ways. This will enable you to become a spiritually mature person who intimately knows and loves God. Remember that God will lead you to such people, you need to hear his voice and follow the prompting of his Spirit. He will speak to you in your heart (spirit). His voice is an inner knowing in your heart. Do not expect a verbal human voice.

    May God bless you richly as you seek and serve him. May your new life be one of great adventures and victories in God.

    #781828
     dL 
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    CHRISTIANS WHO WATCH SECULAR MOVIES WILL BE DECEIVED..!! Believe me – no serious Christian will ever grow closer to Jesus through watching movies.

    You need to know that the Matrix is specifically designed to target Christians who are living a “double-life” (one foot in the church and the other in the world).. this movie takes you down a philosophical mind-twisting ‘rabbit-hole’ of believable fantasy where your sub-conscious mind is implanted with a seducing spirit – designed demonically to influence your thoughts in a subtle way to a life of carnality – and away from that place of pure and simple devotion to Christ alone..

    #781829
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    I used this movie as a parable for the gospel and it has helped me reach out to some people with the gospel from different parts of the globe over the years. And Jesus told people stories too, so that people could understand some important truths. It was the religious Pharisees that didn’t like his unorthodox ways and tried to discredit him. They complained that he didn’t wash his hands before a meal and did things they considered unlawful on the Sabbath.

    You seem very judgmental like those Pharisees David. Pray for peace. Fighting me or embarking on a crusade to discredit me in any way you can is not helping you. And you said yourself in another post, these debates are not good. But when you attack me, I only offer a defense and reason as to why I believe as I do. I am not looking for a fight, but I am not naive and realise that truth does attract opposition.

    I hope you find peace David. The peace that Jesus gives us freely.

    #781830
     Admin 
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    I am curious though. How do you know this. Did you watch the movie?

    #781831
     Admin 
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    You should be rejoicing that the gospel is being preached. You forget that many in the world need to hear the gospel and who is going to do that. It also helps you use things that people are familiar with when bring across truths. I used this movie when it came out in the same way. Paul talked about things that people were familiar with to deliver the gospel too.

    Acts 17:22-31 (NIV):
    22 Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: “People of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. 23 For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: to an unknown god. So you are ignorant of the very thing you worship—and this is what I am going to proclaim to you.
    24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’

    29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

    #781832
     dL 
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    I stand by what I said..

    Yes, of course I watched it – back then all christians went to the movies (probably still do)..difference is, I didn’t get sucked in..

    am I a Pharisee for exposing the works of the enemy…?? isn’t that what Jesus did…!!!

    From the start (long before I found what you’d written here),I realized that you have been deeply influenced by this movie..but trying to justify it by saying Jesus told stories is completely misleading..

    The parables of Jesus originated with the Holy Spirit…
    The matrix movie originates from hell (sorry) but it’s true..

    #781833
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    That is a pretty legalistic stance you have there. We are free to preach the gospel and relate it to people in a way that they might engage or understand, so long as we do not water down the gospel. Paul talked about the Greek gods/idols/altars as a way to bring in the gospel about the true God and salvation. He was inventive and used things that they were familiar with, which I am sure you also think were from the pit of Hell, except that it was Paul did that. But let’s say he didn’t do that, and I did that instead, then I am sure you would condemn me all the same. Which means one thing, you indirectly condemn Paul for the way he preached the gospel at times.

    But more important than your offense at my style or Paul’s style of preaching the gospel is that the gospel is being preached. And if even one soul is saved, then it is worth it.

    Would it not be better for you to go out and preach the gospel, rather than attack those who are doing that already?

    Further you attack me because I believe and teach that there is one God the Father and that he is the only true God and that it was he who sent his son whom he made lord and messiah.

    You really need to be careful about what you attack David. Still God gave us free will and you can choose to do this. I am just saying that it is not a good thing, that is all.

    #781834
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    You said:

    The parables of Jesus originated with the Holy Spirit…
    The matrix movie originates from hell (sorry) but it’s true.

    Even if that were true, why can’t we preach the gospel through it to those who may be influenced by it?

    Do we just give up on people when they are under the influence of something. Paul brought in the gospel to some Greeks when he talked about one of their altars to an unknown God. It seems he implored a similar tactic and why not. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation. That is the primary important thing here. Not the way we might introduce it. But if the way we introduce it gets an audience, then why not.

    #781835
     dL 
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    The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation – The Matrix is not the Gospel…(it’s faint symbolic resemblance to Christianity was designed solely to capture the minds of believers)..

    you quote Paul a lot – yet I can assure you The great Apostle would have nothing to do with that sort of trashy entertainment..Paul’s main focus in preaching the gospel was – The Cross..!! to be dead to the ways of the world, and the flesh life..

    The gospel of this age is one yourself promote – a carnal gospel of compromise (which is why I seem legalistic to your liberal thinking).. “For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.” – 1 Corinthians 2:2

    The church in recent times has used Paul’s statement – “..I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some,” to justify much worldly activity within the church – which is why the church has now sadly become so utterly powerless, compromised and lukewarm…

    Paul said, “…if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.” – 2 Corinthians 11:4

    He also said, “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!” – Galatians 1:8

    #781836
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    I never said the Matrix was the gospel. I used it to preach the gospel. Read it again.

    But I can see that you are angry at me and are trying your best to discredit me in any way and this is the latest attack. And for what? Because earlier I taught and still teach the very words of Jesus.
    “This is eternal life, that you may know the one true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent.”

    Because I teach these words of Jesus, and others of Paul, Peter, and John, I have become a vile thing to you because I do not accept the doctrine of Athanasius instead. But if you treat me this way for teaching Jesus words, then are you not really persecuting Jesus. Remember Paul was originally Saul. While Saul was of the religious establishment, a Pharisee of Pharisees, he was zealous in his works. Yet he still persecuted Jesus.

    #781837
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    Over the years I have had many thank me for this writing because it reached out to them with the gospel. Others however have condemned me for writing this. I believe that the Pharisees are still alive and kicking and it is no surprise really that all those who reach out with the good news to their generation will be attacked.

     

    Paul said, “become like them to win them”. Obviously he didn’t mean to become sinners like them, but to be like them in the sense that we can relate to them. This writing has related to many people over the years. Sometimes people forget that they once were lost and someone related to them and gave them the gospel in a language they could understand.

    #781838
     dL 
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    You say you use the Matrix movie to communicate the gospel..
    I say that Satan is not afraid of the gospel preached this way..

    ..why ?
    because without the reality of the cross it becomes utterly powerless..

    sorry, but you actually end up promoting instead a type of compromised Christianity that has been subjected to the subtle desensitization and indoctrination of the world and it’s values for so long that it is now just as lost as the world..

    without the power of the Holy Spirit it is inevitably just another case of the blind leading the blind..

    the church is in a deepening state of apostasy for the very same reason of ‘becoming all things to all men’ – that you yourself quote.. but in saying this Paul in no way intended for us to use any of the carnal practices that we think are so clever today.. yes, we’ve become like the world – but that’s to our shame, not our praise..!

    you say I’m persecuting you..
    I say a sleeping man hates the sound of an alarm clock ringing, and tries hard to shut it off so he can go on sleeping…

    #781839
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    David you are welcome to speculate about Satan and say that he is not afraid of the gospel that I preach, but that is your opinion only, unless you are speaking on his behalf.

    But no matter how agitated you are or angry you get whether righteous or not, I can promise you this, that one of these days you will come around to acknowledging that Jesus Chris is Lord to the glory of God the Father. Not just a repetition of that, but an acknowledgement of what that means too. You will also one way or another believe Jesus when he said “this is eternal life, that you may know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent. Because the truth remains the same, it changes not.

    When I teach this truth many actually understand it immediately and are open enough to challenge the Trinity as a consequence. But die hard religious people who do not question get all upset about it. That is what happened to the Pharisees 2000 years ago. Once they became drunk on the wine of their own doctrines they were as drunkards no knowing what they were really saying or doing.

    2000 or so years ago, the Pharisees said that our Lord Jesus had a demon or was under the influence of one. Challenge yourself, if you were around in those days would you back the official religious establishment or a controversial poor man with no special stature who claimed to the be the son of God. I mean really what side would you have taken. You say that I am under the influence of a demon just as they said about Jesus, but that is what the religiously bound people do. Jesus said, they will do to you what they do to me. And then you say that you are not persecuting me. You are not seeing the real picture.

    When you attack one of his because he speaks his words, (“This is eternal life, that you may know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”), then surely your own words about waking up apply to you. A sober minded person could see that clearly.

    You keep pointing out specks David, but ignore the log. The problem with a log is that it blinds your vision and you can only see around the log.

    To follow Jesus requires believing what he said about himself. If you preach another Jesus, one that fits your own understanding, then what benefit do you hope to gain.

    I have asked you some good questions here and the challenge I give you can only help you. But if you continue to attack one of his messengers, then you are really attacking the message itself and the one who originally gave it.

    If you are wise, you would pray about your behaviour as I do for myself. We are mere humans and subject to many faults and misconceptions. It is imperative that we are led by the Spirit and preach the true words of Jesus Christ even when they contradict our own understanding.

    I know for a fact that you cannot say and neither do you believe that the only true God is the Father and that he sent his son into the world, the one whom God made both Lord and Christ. I know you cannot teach this nor repeat this and I know this because you persecute me for repeating it and teaching it. Yet this is clearly written and there is no dispute about it.

    If you are not interested in letting the words of Jesus, Paul, Peter, and John renew your mind, then your mind will eventually become a house bitterness and dead religion. We need our minds to be renewed by the Word because love and truth go hand in hand and the truth sets us free. And to be free is a very good thing. And to not be free is to be in captivity. Those who are of God and are in Babylon need to come out and be free. If they remain, they remain captives.

    #781840
     dL 
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    well – I see you’re really hung up about this trinity thing..which is sad, because you haven’t understood anything I’ve shared, and it REALLY is so simple…!!!

    you honestly don’t have to spend your life studying Church history or church doctrine to know the truth…otherwise only the intelligent ones would get to heaven..!!

    Paul said, “Remember, brethren, that few of you were wise by human standards..” – Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.”

    KNOWING TRUTH IS NOT DEPENDENT ON INTELLECTUAL KNOWLEDGE OR STUDY..

    sadly and tragically your theological pursuits have led you away from the simple revelation of Scripture…The Bible says, “..the Word WAS God.” – but now, by leaning on your own understanding, you cannot accept this simple (yet profound) truth about Jesus..and so you have to change what the Bible actually says in plain black and white, so it will fit into your thinking..

    But the major problem you have in doing this is that you now give yourself as much authority as the very Scriptures themselves…!!! you present your understanding against what the Bible clearly says, and so I have to make a choice – Do I trust what my Bible tells me..??? Or do I trust you when you tell me my Bible’s wrong..!!! you see, in essence you’re actually telling me you know better than the Bible…!!

    You say you have challenged me with a lot of good questions, and that you’re merely quoting Scripture – but that’s completely wrong..you are imprisoned in your own deceptive thinking (sorry) – somehow you’ve gotten yourself stuck in a dark hole where you can’t see past your own nose (sorry again) but you really seem unable to grasp the most simplest things, which I’ve had to straighten out for you over and over again to no avail..

    my final analyses is that you are under a religious delusion (where you are the innocent victim – the righteous prophet of God who is being persecuted for his noble stance against some monster church heresy – and of course I’m the terrible blind Pharisee with a log in his eye..!!)

    So I’ll wind this one up for you by saying again something you seem to think I can’t say or believe…(???) – “This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” – and say to you that this statement is by no means in conflict with the reality of the Trinity – IT IS YOUR OWN ‘NATURAL’ UNDERSTANDING THAT CREATES THE CONFLICT…

    The ONLY way to comprehend the true reality of Jesus Christ is by REVELATION..that’s it – nothing more, nothing less!!

    ..and, lets be honest – it’s definitely not the sort of spiritual revelation you’ll get through watching secular cult movies – (no criticism intended)…

    #781841
     Admin 
    Keymaster
    • Topics started 90
    • Total replies 1,247

    David. Scripture doesn’t support it. It is that simple. It is not about trying to understand a mystery or accepting it by faith, it is just that it is not taught in scripture.  

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