The Creations of Genesis 1 & 2 and John 1

This topic contains 211 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Truthcomber 1 week, 2 days ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #833173
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 5
    • Total replies 453

    Hi Nick,

    You: You realise that you have changed the words of 1 Peter 3 by extending the meaning.
    You have TAKEN AWAY the written specificity to those at the time of Noah and ADDED the prison of sin and death.
    Is it wise to TAKE AWAY FROM and ADD TO the Word of God?

     

    Me: This is a false accusation to justify your lack of understanding of this. I have not changed one word. I did insert (proclaimed) next to preach because I thought it was the more appropriate definition of 2784 in light of the text. I also put (John 8:34: sin and death);” next to “spirits in prison” because I felt John 8:34 helps us understand this. Nobody is literally in a prison with walls and barred wire fence, so prison is symbolic. Nobody can escape the prison of death without Christ.
    The bible interprets itself. You need to relate the scriptures to each other (Isaiah 28:10). Why did God make it this way? He made it this way so not everyone would understand in this present age. Why did God speak to the Pharisees in parables? It was so they wouldn’t understand and he could have mercy on them. They are not saved now, they are saved later. So if you think that you could go and find a single verse in the bible that says exactly what you are seeking to understand, you are badly mistaken a lot of times.

    1 Peter 3.18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached (proclaimed)…

    Me: If Christ was not completely dead, then he had not died for our sins. If he was completely dead, he could not have preached to anyone. It was not until Christ was resurrected from the dead and glorified in heaven that he could do both.

    Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

    1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and (proclaimed) unto the spirits in prison. Eccl 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity…and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

    Me: You miss the point completely if you think that the Messiah went to a small number of Peope “to preach to them” or worst yet to demons or devils as the popular belief is . What would the point be? Christ does not save the wicket that had died in this generation until he returns. He sent his spirit  to all the saints in the OT that had died without the benefit of the sacrifice of Christ to resurrect them from the dead (John 5:25).

    1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime (4218. pote: at one time or other, at some time, formerly) were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved (from the wicketness of the world) by water.

    Me: All the OT saints had died without the benefit of the sacrifice of Christ to wash their sins. (4218. pote ) in 1 Peter 3:20 is referring to all the OT saints thought out time and not just to Noah and his family. Notice, it was not the massive amounts of people that were saved, but only a few–just like now.  The Ark must represent Christ which saved them and the waters which metamorphically the spirit of God. We are saved by the corruption of the world which represents sin here.

    The Ark and the Call to Christ

    The Ark and the Call to Christ

    1 Peter 3:21 The like figure (499. antitupos: Correspondingly) whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
    https://biblehub.com/lexicon/1_peter/3-21.htm

    https://biblehub.com/greek/2784.htm

    Me: Sin is the transgression of the law. Law breakers are under the death sentence (Rom 6:23). Law breakers die in the prison of death.  None can deliver them but Christ.
    https://biblehub.com/john/8-34.htm

    1 Peter 3.18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached (proclaimed) unto the spirits in prison 20 Which sometime (example from the past) were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved (from the wicketness of the world) by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

    Me: Noah’s ark is just an example in the past that happen to have water involved in it. The prison is sin and death. You cannot escape sin with death inherited in your flesh.
    John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

    Me: To be saved, one must be baptized in the spirit. Noah and his family are but a physical metaphor of baptism of the spirit that saves us. We cannot save the flesh (symbolically the wickedness during Noah’s time). But we are saved by the spirit.
    I have not changed one word. You tell me which word I have changed.

    Christ did not preach to the demons or devils in hades. They are locked up in chains and are reserved for judgment.  The spirit of the beast and man’s spirit go downward. Christ was completely dead until he was resurrected from the dead 1 Cor 15:15-16). If he was not, what was the point? He was the sacrificial lamb without spot that died for our sins. He did not have to die because of himself, but he died for us.

    #833174
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 5
    • Total replies 453

    Hi all,

    The Ark and the Call to Christ

    How Is The Ark Symbolic Of Jesus Christ?

     

     

    #833182
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,446

    Hi TC,

    The article was interesting but it missed the message of 1 Peter 3 too which is that water baptism is essential.

    And only baptism IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST as shown in Acts 19.

    The site itself is of the trinity falsehood.

    #833236
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 5
    • Total replies 453

    Hi All,

    I hope we can stay on topic and not wander all over the place.

    1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

    Although I am quoting one article from Judaism, one from a Unitarian source, and one from a JW source, they do have the truth as far as God being one person. I am only quoting good articles that reveal what I believe is truth.

    Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: 33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. 34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God.

    34 Bible verses about No Other is God

    https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/No-Other-Is-God

     

    Does Elohim really mean a “plural oneness” or a “plurality of persons”?

    The best explanation, I believe, is from the below link.

    Did Someone Find the Doctrine of the Trinity In the Name of God? Why is God’s Name “Elohim” Plural?

    The noun, Yahweh is always singular. So, Elohim has to be likewise the singular form (plural intensive) to describe the true God. Elohim is used in plural form to describe the many false pagan Gods but only in singular form (plural intensive) to show majesty.

    https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/elohiym.html

    http://searchforbibletruths.blogspot.com/2010/02/does-elohim-really-mean-plural-oneness.html

    Comment: Plural of excellence and not of number refers to the Almighty. Plural in number refers to beings that are not the Almighty as in man and the angels. Although the article above is a JW article, it smacks of the truth.

    “Let us” in Genesis 1:26 is NOT the Trinity
    http://www.bibleanswerstand.org/trinity.htm

    Genesis 1:26

    Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he (God) them (Adam and Eve).

    Interlinear Bible:

    Genesis 1:26 God utter, make man an image likeness

    http://biblehub.com/lexicon/genesis/1-27.htm

    Verse 27: God create mankind an image an image God create male a female God create

    Comment: To comment on vs 27, is God both a male and female? No, he is neither. For God is invisible spirit. On the other hand, his visible image, who is the lamb of God is a male. To match “us” and “our” in verse 26 would be to match it with“male and female” in verse 27. That would make God both a male and female. So “us” is a wrong word used in a wrong place. In fact God is singular plural intensive (H430) noun. What does this mean? It means that when the greatest majesty of a thing or person is emphasized, it is used in this form. That is exactly what is happening here. For verse 27 uses the pronoun “he” to describe God. Here, the singular “he” in verse 27 agrees with the singular plural intensive God in verse 26, both describing as a singular being. It is not referring to the pagan trinity as explained in my opening posts. Can you find anywhere in biblical history where a monotheistic God is considered pagan? On the hand, there is an plethora of historic evidence of the pagan origins of the trinity.

    To continue with the phrase, “make man in our image”, I feel it should be to “make man in my image” to provide cohesiveness.

    There is no “us” or “our” in the first part of Genesis 1:26 presented in the interlinear bible. It could have very well been stated as “God said I will make man in my image and likeness”. So, whether the pronouns should be translated as the plurals “us” and “our” or “I” and “my” are predicated on “God” being singular or plural. And all reputable biblical scholars, even those that are Trinitarian admit that “God” here is singular, plural intensive.

    http://biblehub.com/lexicon/genesis/1-27.htm

    #833237
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 5
    • Total replies 453

    Hi All,

     

    Let’s go through most, if not all of John 1 verse by verse. This is the about the physical creation, not the new creation (Col 1:15-17).
    First vs 1 and 2:
    John 1:1 (KJV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.

    Genesis 1:1 (KJV) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

    Isa 44:24 (KJV) Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

    2 Kings 19:15 (KJV)…even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth

    Comment: One person created the heaven and the earth.

    #833238
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 5
    • Total replies 453

    1 Tim 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amien.

    1 John 4:12 (NIV) No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

    John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

    Comment: One person created all. That one person was and still is spirit, and thus is invisible.

    #833240
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 5
    • Total replies 453

    Hi All,

    John 6:63…the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

    1 Peter 1:22 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God…

    Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

    Comment: Seeds come from a tree or plant. A tree is symbolic of a person or a entity. seeds come from the tree or source.   Thus the Word in John 1:1 is the spirit and life of God. Now what else is invisible about God and always is an integral and inseparable part of the spirit.

    Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind.

    Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

    Comment: So mind and spirit go together. And the heart and mind go together.

     

     

    Matt 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

    Comment: God’s mind is in heaven.

     

    Psalm 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? 8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
    God’s mind is in heaven
    Matt 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
    Lev 24:12 And they put him in ward, that the mind of the LORD might be shewed them.
    Comment: From God’s mind comes his spirit. Where God’s spirit is, his mind is in it.

    God created all things by his word, which is of his spirit.

    Genesis 1:2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

    Psalm 104:30 You send forth Your Spirit, they are created; And You renew the face of the ground.

    Psalm 33:6 By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, And by the breath of His mouth all their host (Hebrew parallelism).

    Psalm 33:9 For He spoke, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood fast.

     

    God’s spirit is omnipresent.  It is the creative force he used to create all things.

     

    #833242
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 5
    • Total replies 453

    Thus,


    John 1:1 (KJV) In the beginning was the Word (spirit of God), and the Word was with God (mind and spirit), and the Word (spirit of God) was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God (mind and spirit).

    Me: According to Granville Sharp rule, whenever the article appears before the noun, it is referring to the deity. Thus, Word here is the deity. There is no article before God. Thus God is the substance of the deity and not the deity as an individual entity.

    #833274
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 5
    • Total replies 453

    Hi All,

    https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/1-3.htm

    https://biblehub.com/greek/1223.htm

    1. John 1:3 All things were (G 1223: made by him); and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    2. John 1:3 All things were (G 1223: made because of him); and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    Comment: Click on the first link above, and you will see G 1223 above the word “through”

    Then click on G1223 for the alternative definitions. You will find “the alternative definition in number 2 (made because of him” which I feel is the right one in light of all the other scriptures that said God Almighty by himself made all things.

    https://biblehub.com/interlinear/hebrews/1-2.htm

    https://biblehub.com/greek/1223.htm

    Comment: Use the same procedure as above.

    Click on the first link above, and you will see G 1223 above the word “through”

    Then click on G1223 for the alternative definitions. You will find “the alternative definition as (made because of him” which I feel is the right one in light of all the

    Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom ( G1223) also he made the worlds;

    Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, who (3739) he hath appointed heir of all things, (because of him or for him ( G1223) also he made the worlds;
    Also on the first link you will notice 3739 above “whom”. Click on 3739 and you will see that it means “who” and not “whom”. This means God Almighty “who” and not the Messiah “whom” created the worlds,

    Prov 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself:…

    Comment: God owned all things he made. He gave it as an inheritance to Christ. It would be absurd to say Christ created all things and then inherited all things from God. Instead, God created all things that Christ inherited.

    https://biblehub.com/lexicon/hebrews/1-2.htm

    Thus,

    Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken hath spoken to us in his son, who (God, not Christ) he who (God not Christ) he hath appointed heir of all things, for him also he (God) made the worlds;

    #833285
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 5
    • Total replies 453

    Hi all,

    Last sentence above should be:

    Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken to us in his son, who he (God) hath appointed heir of all things, for him (Christ) also he (God) made the worlds;

     

     

    #833495
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 5
    • Total replies 453

    Hi All,

     

    John 6:63…the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
    2 Cor 3:6… spirit giveth life.

    John 1:4 In him was life ; and the life was the light of men.

    John 1:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.:

    Comment: The light is manifested in both Christ and his followers.
    words > spirit > life > light (wisdom, understanding and knowledge).

    Prov 3:19 The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens. 20 By his knowledge the depths are broken up, and the clouds drop down the dew.

    Me: Light is not just revealed understanding, wisdom and knowledge but also wisdom, knowledge and understanding on how to create.

    #833496
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 5
    • Total replies 453

    Hi All,

     

    John 1: 5 And the light (wisdom and understanding) shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

    Comment: The spirit is life that gives us light through God’s words or thoughts to us.

    #833498
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 5
    • Total replies 453

    Hi All,

     

    John 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light that all men through him (John)) might believe. 8 He (John) was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light (God), which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

    10 He was in the world, and the world was made (1223:on account of) him and the world knew him not.
    Click on the link below. Then click on “1223” above “through”
    https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/1-10.htm

    11 (God) came unto his own, and (his) own received (him) not.

    Matthew 10:40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

    Me: God came through Christ.

    John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

    Comment: God was in the world inside of Christ, who was a manifestation of that light. The prophets of old did not receive the understanding that was to be revealed. The spirit of God was the only spirit of or inside of Christ.  The light was manifested purely through the thoughts of God and not man.

    #833499
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 5
    • Total replies 453

    Hi All,

     

    John 1:12 But as many as received (God), to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

    Comment: No man was called the son of God in spirit prior to the resurrection and ascension of Christ into heaven. Only Adam, who had no ancestry prior to that was called the son of God because he was created directly by God from the earth.

    1 Tim 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light (wisdom and understanding): which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen (comprehend) nor can see to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amien.

    Comment: God’s wisdom is infinite. We can understand, but never the way God can understand,

    Matt 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

    Comment: Christians are the light through the spirit and life in them. This is through exemplary lives and teaching after we have received the words and spirit of life

    #833502
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,446

    Hi TC,

    I think it is easier to follow a man just like us, tempted in every way we are, but obedient to the Law and because he was clean he was anointed from above at the Jordan with the Holy Spirit.

    You offer a godman with no human spirit.

    He was conceived of Mary and got half his heredity from sinful man.

Viewing 15 posts - 166 through 180 (of 212 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

© 1999 - 2018 Heaven Net

or

Log in with your credentials

or    

Forgot your details?

or

Create Account