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Hi Gene. I am taking you to the Hot Seat regarding your teaching that there is no free will.
I will ask you a question, and you must answer or get booted from the forums.
Then you can ask me a question and if I do not answer, then I have to boot myself from the forums.
If you do not want to ask me a question in return, then I am free to ask more reasonable questions.
To fast forward this topic somewhat I will post a question I posted to Gene in another topic and I will post his answer.
I will then post my new question.
Please answer this question with a yes or no.
Did God give mankind free will?
Yes / No
Gene replied with:
No
My first question. You must start the answer with Yes, No, or I don’t know.
An explanation can follow your answer so we can understand your reasoning.
And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”
Did God command man to eat freely from any tree except one? Yes / No
T8…..YES…> God did tell man they could eat freely of any tree in the guarden, except one. So whats that got to do about describing what a will is.
And NO HE DID NOT CREATE MAN WITH A FREEWILL, or he could do nothing and nothing could effect his will because the will it self would remain free of any influence, if that were the case. A will would not even exist if that were the case. He gave man freedom to excercise his wants, brought about by what was influencing and captivating his mind
You again are not addressing the meaning a what a will is, nor what forms it or how it operates. As i have said hundreds of times you are talking about our liberty to excerise those wills, formed by what has influenced and captivated them.
Now tell me when do i get to ask you the queations i have ask you on the other posts. You know the ones you refused to answer.
peace and love to you and yours…………….gene
T8…… OK, THIS is my first question to you, Do you even know how a will is formed or if it is formed, YES OR NO OR DON’T KNOW.?, this would be a good start IMO.
Next question……What is your perception of what a will is, do you belive a will is the product of something, or is just there “freely” existing by itself in eveyone, YES OR NO OR DONT KNOW?
peace and love to you and yours. ……………..gene
OK, THIS is my first question to you, Do you even know how a will is formed or if it is formed, YES OR NO OR DON’T KNOW.?, this would be a good start IMO.
I didn’t realise there was an outstanding question.
I think a life that comes from God to be its own life needs its own will in order to be a new life. Otherwise it is an extension of God only.
T8….ANSWER YES BECAUSE ALL WILLS ARE “CAUSED BY WHAT IS “INFLUENCING THEM OR THEY SIMPLY WOULDN’T BE A WILL NOW WOULD THEY? SO NO, WE DONT HAVE A WILL THAT IS “FREE” I AM NOT SAYING we are not born with the capacity to will, now am i, i am saying that those wills that form are not “freewills” themselves, but are wills made up by what influences them the most, and we do have liberty to excercise those “influenced” WILLS, but the will “ITSELF” IS NOT “ITSELF” FREE, GET IT?, THE TERM “FREEWILL” IS AN OXYMORON, because a will would not even be a will unless it is “caused’ by something. Common sense 101.
peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
T8….ANSWER YES BECAUSE ALL WILLS ARE “CAUSED BY WHAT IS “INFLUENCING THEM OR THEY SIMPLY WOULDN’T BE A WILL NOW WOULD THEY?
That is not a denial of free will. We are free to choose among the choices. Some choices are compelling, others are tempting or enticing. It depends on the state of our heart as to what we ultimately choose. I would say that we are actually the sum of our choices.
T8…..YES…> God did tell man they could eat freely of any tree in the guarden, except one. So whats that got to do about describing what a will is.
It’s simple Gene. God gave man a choice in the beginning.
Rather than only offer the Tree of Life, God took the risk of providing a way to choose against his will too.
Why? Perhaps because we are not robots and robots cannot love. God is love and love only exists where there is choice.
If we love God without choosing to love him, then is that really love or are we merely obeying a program?
But if we have the choice to not love him, but we choose to love him, then our love is proven.
T8……When Adam and Eve were created they had no concept of good and evil, there eye were not opened to it, until after they were tempted by Satan to do what they did. GOD KNEW all along they would eventually disobey him, because he did not put in man a means to direct his steps, as scripture says, “it is not within man to direct his paths” so a so-called “freewill” was never their even in the beginning, while scripture does say men have WILL’S, no where does it say those WILL’S are free, but rather they are always influenced by something never are they free. we only have liberty to excercise our “influenced’ will’s.
YOUR rendition of how it all works, is by MAN THROUGH HIS SO-CALLED “FREEWILL”, SOME HOW BY HIS FREEWILL CHOICES MADE BY HIMSELF SAVES HIMSELF. That is as far from the truth as itcan get. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
T8……When Adam and Eve were created they had no concept of good and evil, there eye were not opened to it, until after they were tempted by Satan to do what they did. GOD KNEW all along they would eventually disobey him, because he did not put in man a means to direct his steps, as scripture says, “it is not within man to direct his paths” so a so-called “freewill” was never their even in the beginning,
If you cannot see that God put two trees in the garden to give man a choice, then you are blind. Just as you are free to converse in this topic, so man was free to remain eating from the tree of life or partake of the other tree and lose paradise.
T8…. DID GOD SAY “it is not within a man to direct his paths”, YES OR NO OR I DON’T KNOW PLEASE.
As far as God putting A (single tree) of the knowledge of good and evil single because “life” consists of the knowledge of good and evil existing at the same time, much like up and down, right and left . you could not even know what one was without the other, so it is with good and evil, theses oppisites describe one another and they will alway exist, as long as there is life.
THE other tree was the tree of life which also was there. HAD Adam and Eve eathen of it they would have never died in there existing state.
The SPIRIT OF GOD ,must be in a man in order for him to always make the right choice, Therefore it says it is “GOD WHO WORKS “IN” US “BOTH” TO “WILL” AND DO OF “HIS” GOOD PLEASURE”. Why would he have to do that if it was simply a matter of us freewilling it our selves. You view removes God from the picture of salvation and places salvation into the hand of man. nothing could be further from the truth.
The word “freewill” is an OXYMORON, no such thing exists or it simply wouldn’t be a will if it was free of influences, now would it, there is nothing free about the will “ITSELF”, WE ONLY HAVE LIBERTY TO EXCERCISE OUR “INFLUENCED” WILL, WILL’S HELD INCAPTIVITY BY WHAT IS INFLUENCING THEM THE MOST.
Your so-called freewill salvation idea of the self dosn’t work T8, never did or who would even need God, if what you believe were possible.
peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Do you not know what direct means? It doesn’t mean control.
Directors run companies right, but not all workers under the director will do or follow the director.
God gives us direction that is obvious. He doesn’t force us to go down the wide or narrow path though does he? That is why we are encouraged to walk down the narrow path to life.
If your view was correct, then all the encouragement in scripture about following God, accepting the things of God, and walking in righteousness would be irrelevant. You are free to choice among the available options obviously.
If you do not believe this, then why are you debating with me? After all, you are trying your hardest to get me to choose your view on this. Ironic isn’t it?
lol.
Gene here is your first must answer question on this topic. I require a yes/no answer only. No explanation please. That can follow in a separate post.
Q: Are you trying to get me to choose your view regarding free will as opposed to my view?
yes/no
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