Signs Before the End of the Age

This topic contains 163 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of t8 t8 2 weeks, 5 days ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #806304
    Profile photo of t8 t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 851
    • Total replies 17,384

    Your question about the middles east….I actually don’t know. I suspect each of those years were relatively bad. Relative to the world.

    So you admit you do not know.

    The Bible is a book of prophecy that mainly pertains to a geographical region, i.e., the area around the Great Sea.

    Even while the prophecies were given, there were civilizations in China, South America etc that were not being spoken of.

    Jesus never said that Canada would get better or worse, he said that the world (not the Earth) would get worse like birth pains.

    If you do not really believe Jesus own prophecies it could boil down to you being ignorant of what he was actually talking about.

    If he was talking about Canada, USA, Great Britain, and France, then you might be right and Jesus wrong. Even then, I still say ‘might’ because history tends to record major upheavals and shocking events. It doesn’t record millennia of people farming, eating organic food, and families enjoying each other’s presence without distraction of PlayStation, TV, etc. People who could really meditate and enjoy life at a deeper level.

    I know when I was a kid growing up, I didn’t have a lot of stuff and very few toys. But I was pretty happy enjoying the rainforest in our back yard which backed into an unpopulated mountain range, a big enough area to get lost in for days.  As kids we use to let our imaginations run wild in the forest. It was a far richer experience than the life I have today which is a very comfortable but busy physical existence in middle class NZ. I try when I can to take walks in the forest, and enjoy the simple things in life. I bring my kids up with this ethos too. That life I had showed me that people living in the Amazon with nothing are actually quite rich. Unfortunately, their way of life is increasingly under threat as the world becomes a bigger place packed with apartments, concrete, and pollution. Thankfully New Zealand is a long way off that, but the dependence on physical things is not the source of joy and happiness and never has been.

    #806305
    Profile photo of t8 t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 851
    • Total replies 17,384

    Also, it would be true to say that there are more wars, more poverty, and more suffering today, just based on even this one fact. A bigger population.

    That said, I believe that many prophecies are Middle East centric and what is happening over there now is tribulation for many.

    Here is a video I watched today for example. It purports to show ISIS fighters dragging off Yazidi girls to make them sex slaves.

    Definitely not the best of times for Christians, Yazidis, Sunnies, etc.

    #806306
    Profile photo of t8 t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 851
    • Total replies 17,384

    This just popped up on my Facebook wall.

    Tribes: Proud not Primitve

    And people call them primitive…

    Posted by Survival International on Friday, 18 December 2015

    #806307
    Profile photo of david david 
    Participant
    • Topics started 68
    • Total replies 11,289

    T8

     

    yes I admitted I don’t know any specific stats on the very small part of the world that is the Middle East.   But as I said I suspect the stats and am sure most of them are some of the worst on the planet.  Stepping into the Middle East is almost like stepping not the past in some ways.  Health. Safety. Homicide.  Death by toeture. Etc.

    Again, I am concerned with the largest available data set because I’m concerned with the world.  Even if things are bad or getting worse in that tiny fraction of the world, this is more than offset by most of the world.  And I’m not just talking about the few countries you listed.

     

    As as for your memories of childhood, let me quote someone who expresses an interesting idea

     

    “”””When we think about the past, we focus on our childhoods, to a time when our parents protected us from the world.  As adults, even if society has gotten better, the sense of being sheltered is gone. Nobody’s taking care of you anymore, so it feels like everything is getting more worrisome, even if objectively everything is getting better.””””–Christopher jencks, Harvard university.

     

    As as a child people met you with hugs and smiles.  There may have been a ar going on but it didn’t concern you because you were a kid.  This is the human experience.  It’s not special to you.  And since we are prone to this misunderstanding of comparing present day troubles with our memories of childhood rather than the actual events that were going on back then, we need to look at the actual numbers.   So as not to deceive ourselves with imperfect Maluable memories

    #806308
    Profile photo of david david 
    Participant
    • Topics started 68
    • Total replies 11,289

    Also, it would be true to say that there are more wars, more poverty, and more suffering today, just based on even this one fact. A bigger population.

     

    Nope

    since 1945 basically all stats on war have been declining even in absolute terms.  The 2000 decade was the least war filled decade in half a century.  Poverty isn’t just massively declining as a rate of the population bit is even declining in absolute terms

     

    it would be bad thinking to judge these things in absolute terms.  I’m guessing you wouldn’t be saying the world is becoming more sneezy despite more sneezes each year due to more people on the planet.  There are likely more farts each decade but it would be bad thinking to say farting is becoming a worse problem.  What is important is the rate.  Because it’s the rate that determines how likely the individual is to suffer.

    Which is the more violent world:

    one with a population of 10 people that has 1 murder a year

     

    or

     

    one with a population of 1000 people that has 5 murders a year.

     

    If if you say the second is 5 times as violent then that’s just bizarre.  Any sane person would rather live on the second world with the lower murder rate.   So as population exploded because of better health and illumination of pestilence and decreased infant mortality, even if the numbers became slightly larger in absolute terms, it doesn’t make sense to say this means anything is getting worse.

     

    More births means more deaths.  Everyone has to die somehow.  It doesn’t mean things are getting worse.  It means the population grew.  When measured by population, the Second World War wasn’t even that bad and world war 1 was barely anything.

    #806309
    Profile photo of david david 
    Participant
    • Topics started 68
    • Total replies 11,289

    If I’m ignorant of what Jesus as talking about perhaps you could outline the prophecies you are referring t.

    I mostly consider mat 24 and 2 Tim 3.  Maybe you could tell me what you believe Jesus predicted since that is the subject of this thread.

    #807189
    Profile photo of t8 t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 851
    • Total replies 17,384

    The 2000 decade was the least war filled decade in half a century.

    Well we had two world wars previous to those 50 years but a third one could eclipse both. We both understand that there are natural fluctuations. Further, after two world wars, you would imagine people making a concerted effort to avoid war. But I think latter generations like now, have less concern about that. It looks to me like an eruption of wars is brewing as countries seem to be getting more hostile. Saudi Arabia vs Iran. China extending her realm to the detriment of her Asian neighbors and with the second biggest military budget in the world. ISIS, Syrian Government, Yemen, etc. Most importantly, the Middle East which the Bible mostly speaks about is almost hell on Earth in places and looks to be getting worse. Sunni vs Shia etc. Christians are almost extinct now, and the Jews will be surrounded by more hostile people then ever before. You can bet you will see horrible things come to pass in this region. As for New Zealand, well things are pretty good here. But New Zealand is not spoken of directly in scripture, but indirectly in at least one place.

    In child birth, (not that I am an expert) one would expect the pain to get worse. That is no guarantee that every pang is worse than the previous one though, but the trend is for it to get worse until just before the visible kingdom, the worst time ever in history. This is how I see the world. You can think of it in these simple terms. In the past, man couldn’t destroy the Earth, now he can, and probably will bring about much destruction. I say this because there are an increasing amount of nutters out there with increasingly powerful technology and beliefs as prophesied that a time will come when men think that they do a service to God by killing you. When I think of Kim Jong-un in North Korea with his hand on the button of a powerful weapon, I shudder at the thought. Something will give, it is just a matter of time David.

    More and more people seem to disbelieve the existence of God. More people seem to becoming self=absorbed in a world full of goods and the pressure of keeping up with the Jones’s (the pride of life). We had two 9.? earthquakes this century. Not sure how common these quakes are, but these were huge. Jesus said quakes will become more regular in diverse places culminating in the most powerful quake of all.

    While you may doubt Jesus predictions based on your observations, I believe Jesus was right. Man hasn’t wrought destruction on himself yet, but just a matter of time. Even if he didn’t ignite one great bomb, pollution alone might kill us all given enough time. If man can solve his problems and handle his increasingly dangerous inventions, then our future will be like that of Star Trek. We will advance to the stars. But something tells me that man is incapable of making it that far. I do not have that much faith in humanity.

    I guess we have to agree to disagree on this subject. Although the topic I started here was about terrorism. I think it is safe to say that this is getting worse. It leads the headlines each day. I do not remember terrorism dominating news in the 70’s 80s or 90s. And while the 00s had 9/11 and ensuing wars, I think the 10s have been more about terrorism than that decade. I am willing to bet that the 20s will be even worse. Expect regular lone wolf attacks in Europe almost on a weekly basis to larger more planed attacks happening more often. Perhaps ISIS terrorists will breach North American borders through Mexico. Who know, but know this, that they are planning our societies downfall as I type. Such a world will also lead to less freedoms for all as surveillance of the populace increases to counter the problem.

    #807191
    Profile photo of t8 t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 851
    • Total replies 17,384

    If I’m ignorant of what Jesus as talking about perhaps you could outline the prophecies you are referring t.

    I mostly consider Matthew 24, 2 Tim 3. Maybe you could tell me what you believe Jesus predicted since that is the subject of this thread.

    You said it. Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, 2 Tim 3. Add in The Book of Revelation but even Daniel, Ezekiel etc in as much as they talk about the end-times.

    #818867
    Profile photo of t8 t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 851
    • Total replies 17,384

    Been saying for some time that terrorists in the future will adopt drone warfare. This video makes it seem inevitable.

    Prototype Quadrotor with Machine Gun

    #818868
    Profile photo of david david 
    Participant
    • Topics started 68
    • Total replies 11,289

    I still find it remarkable how violence is decreasing on the millennia scale, and the century scale and even the decade scale.

    Graphs, and charts aren’t required for many categories of violence, since they went from legal and common place to almost non-existent:

    HUMAN SACRIFICE extremely common for millennia, and even practiced among the Israelites. Similar with ANIMAL SACRIFICE. Common for almost all of history, JUDICIAL TORTURE was even practiced among the Israelites (stoning). SLAVERY, owning and beating humans you took captive when you committed genocide on other tribes, was common in the past, as was GENOCIDE, wiping out entire enemy tribes–get them before they get you. The DEATH PENALTY used to be common for numerous non-violent crimes, like stealing bread or even picking up sticks on the wrong day. For most of history, RAPE wasn’t taken seriously, and when it was, it was often a crime against the owner of the women and not against the women herself, since she had no rights and was basically viewed as property. CORPOREAL PUNISHMENT of children, went from beating with rods and then whipping to spanking, to now even spanking becoming illegal in state after state. BEATINGS AS GENERAL PUNISHMENT and PERSECUTION OF CHRISTIANS have vastly diminished. DEBTERS PRISONS are gone–people are no longer locked up and left to rot when they can’t pay their debts. The people on the $5, $10, and $20 American bills, all were challenged to duels. One backed out, and one died from a duel. DUELING has vanished. LYNCHING, once entertainment, declined to the point where it disappeared in the 1950’s. ANIMAL TORTURE as a form of entertainment (such as burning cats alive for centuries in Europe) and as a form of punishment (such as stoning criminal bulls or hamstringing enemy horses after all the men are killed) have fallen out of fashion. No wall exists around saskatoon, and few Canadians fear another country is going to conquer them, which was once the goal of virtually all countries.

    The best indicator is HOMICIDE. And I find it the most remarkable of all. (It kills by far the most and when a body goes missing it gets written down. Whereas when a wife is beaten or something gets stolen it might not get recorded. And it’s the largest category, killing 6 times as many people as war. It’s the most significant.). Is HOMICIDE getting worse globally? (Millennia scale, century scale, decade scale)

    Without looking at the data (evidence) which you said maybe wasn’t trustworthy,

    Without looking at this data, these things above paint a picture of the general direction personal violence has taken in people’s lives through time. Since you have been born I know of only one category of violence that has risen, and it’s suicide, a category that is a bit different in that it doesn’t make the world more violent or dangerous for others. The number of WARS around the world, the number of WAR DEATHS per war, have been in decline ever since you were born. (Before 1945, European countries started two (yes 2) new wars every year on average for 600 years!! Always trying to conquer others.)

    I’m just not sure which category of violence one would point to that has been increasing globally. HATE CRIME homicides against minorities (blacks in US)–they have followed the path of lynchings since they begin to be recorded and have declined. Changing attitudes caused these changes. We went from Rosa Parks to Obama, a black president in only half a century.

    There are a dozen or so main categories of violence but they can be broken into subcategories. Which category of violence has risen globally since you have been alive? (I’m having trouble proving that ANY categories have risen, much less the overall trend of all violence globally.)

    Suicide and terrorism or the two categories that have risen.  But suicide is sort of a very different category of violence It doesn’t make the world more dangerous for others   And terrorism, the numbers are so low they don’t even compare to all other categories of violence.  But it is effective because it makes the news and does cause Terror in those who like to spread such stories.  But compared to the global bonicide rate or war rate, terrorism is nothing.   Terrorism has of course been around forever.

     

     

    #818869
    Profile photo of david david 
    Participant
    • Topics started 68
    • Total replies 11,289

    HOMICIDE is by far the best indicator becasue it kills way way way more than anything else and jomicides tend to get reported but rapes or assaults might not.

    And homicide is way way way way down.  It’s been falling for thousands of years.  And continues to fall to this day.

    Violence is decreasing and massively so.

    #818932
    Profile photo of t8 t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 851
    • Total replies 17,384

    I think you can agree that the Bible’s references to the world and the beast out of the sea is the Middle East. I think you can agree that Jesus spoke of a future world that was the Middle East or the world that surrounds Israel. Yes he made references to the whole Earth and ends of the Earth, but the Middle East is where his and toehr’s prophecies are centred. I also think you can agree that the Middle East became a lot more violent after Jesus passed away and today could even be the most oppressive time in history for that part of the world. Islam and Sharia Law has nearly made Christians extinct and many have been crucified and had their heads cut off, even in modern times. You have to have real faith to say you are a Christian or Believer in the Middle East because it can cost you extra taxes, persecution, and even your life.

    But I think that you should also agree that Canada and New Zealand do not feature that much in the Bible, so applying our comfortable way of lives to somehow discredit Jesus seems silly to me. Even if violent deaths worldwide are down, I doubt that is the case for the Middle East.

    But I do not think it takes a rocket scientist to see the future is not bright for some parts of the world that have lived in relative peace. Take Europe and Islamic immigration to that part of the world. Eventually their higher birthrate could make many parts of Europe Islamic. If that were to happen, then Christians and Jews living under Sharia would be tantamount to tribulation for them.

    I think you need to travel a bit david. I have travelled the world and seen much suffering and danger. It amazes me when I return just have safe and ignorant of the evils in the world New Zealand is.

    #818933
    Profile photo of t8 t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 851
    • Total replies 17,384

    Personally I think Sharia Law outweighs homicide when it comes to violence and fear. I lived in Colombia where there is a very high homicide rate. At the time it was also the kidnap capital of the world, and of course there was the real risk of being in the middle of crossfire during their 50 or so years of civil war. But seriously, my life was normal there. Drank coffee every day, maybe went to a movie, had a job, took public transport. Just had to be very careful about where you went and made sure everything you had was secure. If you asked me which I prefer, a high homicide rate or living under Sharia Law, I take the former. In Colombia I can be a Christian and worship God openly and speak about Jesus the son of God in public if I want. I can buy a house and live happily there with my family. I doubt the same for Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia for example. While Colombia is very dangerous. it seems small in comparison to living in a country where evil principalities want you dead.

    #818934
    Profile photo of t8 t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 851
    • Total replies 17,384

    1 Corinthians 12:26 says that we are one body. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.

    But if we ignore the suffering of our brethren in other parts of the world and think the world is getting better, then we turn a blind eye to their suffering. We should at least pray for them, but even less than that, we should acknowledge their tribulations. If we do not even do that, then we do not care and put our trust in the world which by the way cries peace peace. I do not believe their version of peace and safety. For a start, they do not care about those that belong to JEsus who are being persecuted, raped, and slaughtered. Europe and USA prioritize Muslim refugee over Christian refugee. Both countries have sat back and done very little about helping Christians. However, I think Trump is going to change that.

    #818945
    Profile photo of david david 
    Participant
    • Topics started 68
    • Total replies 11,289

    I know the world is filled with pain and suffering.  I’m just suggesting that a world with a child mortality rate of less than 3% is much much better than the world of the past which had a child mortality rate of about 50%.

    As an example, I know that 3% is really reallly bad and could be much much better.  I’m just saying: 3% is much better than the last few thousand years which had about 50%.

    And same with violence.  Violence has massively fallen.  This doesn’t mean it has disappeared and doesn’t mean it isn’t really bad in some places.  But the places that are really bad today used to be considered good in the past.  (Unless you are talking about isolated tribes, because many of them do have very high homicide rates).

Viewing 15 posts - 136 through 150 (of 164 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

© 1999 - 2017 Heaven Net

or

Log in with your credentials

or    

Forgot your details?

or

Create Account