Satan

This topic contains 2,236 replies, has 40 voices, and was last updated by  NickHassan 2 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #13869
     Sammo 
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    Quote (david @ May 19 2006,07:53)
    I'm wondering if you could in just a few sentences very simply define your beliefs on Satan, the demons (sickenss, right?) and angels (a word which I realize literally means, 'messengers.') I'm not looking for the reasons you believe these things, just wanting to know exactly what you specifically believe.


    Hi David, how are you?

    Satan – There is no fallen angel called 'Satan'. The word is used to refer to adversaries, be they good or bad.

    Demons – People in the first century believed that false gods were demons, and caused sickness. This is reflected in the language of the gospels (notably nowhere else).

    Angels – Are immortal beings that serve God. Are incapable of sin, and hence 'falling'.

    Quote (david @ May 19 2006,07:53)
    Sammo, were you always a Christadelphian?


    I grew up in a Christadelphian family, but only got baptised 6 years ago.

    Why aren't we talking about heaven? :(

    God bless

    #13874
     david 
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    Quote
    Evil (as in bad things that happen) comes from God.


    On what do you base this? Does not the entire book of Job declare otherwise? Job may at first have thought the bad things were happening to him because of God, but at first he was wrong. We know it was the adversary (Satan) who was doing these things.
    A normal human couldn't have caused the wind, and the other things that resulted in Job's losses, could he?
    Yes, God allowed those things to happen. God was allowing Job to be tested. In questioning Job's integrity, he was really questioning all humans. Will any human serve God out of a clean heart? God allowed Satan to try to prove his claim. He allowed it. He didn't cause it. The adversary did.

    JAMES 1:13
    “When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone.”

    How more clear could that be?

    Quote
    Nobody ever gets back to me. Never mind


    Sorry, the three months aren't up yet, are they? I get interested in one thing, spend a lot of time on it, then move on. I will be interested in that subject again. Right now, for some reason, I'm interested in the topic of So called Christians who kill. Don't know why.

    #13876
     NickHassan 
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    Hi sammo,
    Then what of Satan being the “god of this world”?

    #13879
     david 
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    Yes, and who is the “ruler of the world” that Jesus mentioned 3 or 4 times who has no hold on Jesus. It's definitely not God in those verses.

    And in Rev 12, it speaks of Satan (the adversary) the original serpent, also called a dragon who with his angels battled with Michael and his angels, and he was hurled out of heaven. So this adversary or Satan was in heaven at one time.

    I'll check your website again.

    #13890
     t8 
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    Quote (Sammo @ May 22 2006,01:07)

    Quote (t8 @ May 18 2006,10:26)

    From what I understand Nick, Christadelphians do not believe in anything that requires faith. So that Heaven is nothing but good thoughts, Satan is adversary. That is at least what one Christadelphian lady explained to me along time ago. Not sure if she represented their beliefs accurately however.


    No, she didn't, and I've already told you so: http://www.heavennet.net/cgi-bin….9;st=80. Of course we believe that heaven is a real place.

    Quote (t8 @ May 18 2006,10:26)
    Of course qualities usually come from people or persons. So evil had to come from somebody, just as good did/does. Otherwise how did all these qualities come into existence?


    Evil (as in bad things that happen) comes from God. Sin comes from within our own heart. Been through this all before, but you never got back to me: http://www.heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;st=120. Nobody ever gets back to me. Never mind :(


    I don't read all the posts that are posted here, so obviously I missed that one.

    I thought that lady who preached to me the Christadelphian gospel was off cue in more way than one.

    If Satan isn't a person/identity then where did evil come from according to the Christadelphian doctrine?

    #13891
     t8 
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    Satan is the god of this age.
    God is the God of all the earth.

    #13897
     Sammo 
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    Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2006,07:40)
    Hi sammo,
    Then what of Satan being the “god of this world”?


    Hi Nick

    Off the top of my head, I don't know.

    #13898
     Sammo 
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    Quote (david @ May 21 2006,07:29)

    Quote
    Evil (as in bad things that happen) comes from God.


    On what do you base this?


    Did you follow the link I gave? I've already posted at some length about this.

    Quote (david @ May 21 2006,07:29)
    Does not the entire book of Job declare otherwise? Job may at first have thought the bad things were happening to him because of God, but at first he was wrong. We know it was the adversary (Satan) who was doing these things.
    A normal human couldn't have caused the wind, and the other things that resulted in Job's losses, could he?
    Yes, God allowed those things to happen. God was allowing Job to be tested. In questioning Job's integrity, he was really questioning all humans. Will any human serve God out of a clean heart? God allowed Satan to try to prove his claim. He allowed it. He didn't cause it. The adversary did.


    God's arch-enemy needs to ask for permission to do something bad? I've already posted on this too: http://www.heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;st=140

    Quote (david @ May 21 2006,07:29)
    JAMES 1:13
    “When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone.”

    How more clear could that be?


    So what does cause temptation? Satan? The very next verse says:

    But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

    So nothing to do with 'Satan' at all – our own lust is responsible. God may place us in difficult situations, but always this is for our own good – and any temptation we may go through is our fault, not God's. I wrote some stuff about that on the link above as well (here).

    Quote
    Nobody ever gets back to me. Never mind


    Sorry, the three months aren't up yet, are they? I get interested in one thing, spend a lot of time on it, then move on. I will be interested in that subject again. Right now, for some reason, I'm interested in the topic of So called Christians who kill. Don't know why.[/quote]
    Start of July is the end of the 3 months :)

    #13899
     Sammo 
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    (messed up tags in the last paragraph sorry!)

    #13900
     NickHassan 
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    Quote (Sammo @ May 21 2006,10:22)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2006,07:40)
    Hi sammo,
    Then what of Satan being the “god of this world”?


    Hi Nick

    Off the top of my head, I don't know.


    Hi sammo,
    What do you mean? Do you study scripture off the top of your head? Do you mean perhaps logic and reason are given to us to judge the Words of The Spirit of God? Or perhaps you do not care to try your beliefs according to the Word of God?
    Surely not.
    2Cor 4.4
    “And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God”

    Eph 2.1
    ” And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the ai, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience”

    #13918
     Sammo 
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    Nick, on the other hand, understands every verse in scripture perfectly :)

    I really wish you'd stop trying to score such cheap debating points, you do it all the time.

    Given how many verses there are in scripture that say that there is only ONE God, I honestly don't see how this verse could be saying that there is another literal 'god' out there with supernatural powers. However you take this it's going to be figurative.

    Take care

    #13919
     NickHassan 
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    Quote (Sammo @ May 21 2006,21:11)
    Nick, on the other hand, understands every verse in scripture perfectly :)

    I really wish you'd stop trying to score such cheap debating points, you do it all the time.

    Given how many verses there are in scripture that say that there is only ONE God, I honestly don't see how this verse could be saying that there is another literal 'god' out there with supernatural powers. However you take this it's going to be figurative.

    Take care


    Hi sammo,
    Why attack the messenger?
    Is it logic and reason that leads you to your doctrines or can you consider what is written in the Word of God?

    #13920
     Sammo 
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    (You're doing it again… :;):)

    #13921
     NickHassan 
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    Hi sammo,
    So if you state, as your basis of faith in these matters, that

    Revelation is only symbolism
    All adversaries in the bible are men
    Evil is personified in the bible

    and then expect us to dialogue with you on that basis of faith we cannot.

    We believe in the bible.

    #13923
     NickHassan 
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    Hi sammo,
    Your denominational doctrines states that you believe in the bible.

    Why do you reject what is written in the bible about Satan?
    Are you not making God seem to be a liar with all your substituted rationalisations and justifications for not accepting what is written?

    Yes you can point out allegories but to label whole chunks of the bible as allegory is not correct.

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