Revelation 1:8

This topic contains 341 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by  AndrewAD 7 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #797961
     UMB5 
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    Hi Davidl

    I can understand how one can derive that Jesus and God are the same by using the scripture at John 10:30 “I and the Father are One”.. especially if that has been your understanding your entire life; however it does not say they are “one God”….compare John 17:22 “The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them; that they may be one, just as we are one.” Here he talks about the Christian congregation being one (in what way should they be one?) just as he and God are one.  If Jesus is saying here that he and God are the same people (part of  trinity) when he says “they are one…than he is saying that he gave the Christian congregation the glory to be part of the Trinity and to be God as well.  Jesus and God are one in will and purpose just like he is saying the Christian congregation will be one in will and purpose, being united…etc. Just like a husband and wife are one..You can also compare John 17:11 “I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one”  Again…One in purpose, figuratively, not numerically. The bible translates itself.  It would also be a good idea to research the word “one” being used.  It is the Greek word “hen” and is neither masculine or feminine in eithr 17:22 and 10:30. This will further show that the word “one” used here is meant figuratively.

     

     

    #798118
     t8 
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    Yes EdJ.

    If my son is the spitting image of me, then no one is going to think my son is his Father (me).

    Basic stuff, and amazing that we even have to spell this out. But spelling things out is actually required when people have been brainwashed.

    It takes time for the old to be replaced with the new. But they have to be willing.

    #798160
     dL 
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    t8

    Yes DavidL, he is the image of the invisible God. That means he is not God, but his image.

    If you say he is God, then you deny that he is the image of that God

    If you say that he is God, then you have to deny that he is the son of that God.

    If you say that he is God, then you have to deny that God made him Lord.

    Can I state the obvious? Denying what is written to preserve philosophy is not a good idea.

    Jesus states in Revelation 1:8 -“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

    If you deny He is God..then you are the one denying what is written to preserve your own anti-trinity philosophy..!!

    By rejecting Scripture, you have actually created your own fraudulent teachings..

    Teachings based on flawed philosophical reasoning.

    #798163
     bodhitharta 
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    @davidl

    Perhaps you missed the opening of the chapter where it says:

    Rev1:1 Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to shew to his bondmen what must shortly take place; and he signified [it], sending by his angel, to his bondman John,

    This says that God gave this to Jesus Christ, what does that mean to you? Now keep in mind it doesn’t say The Father gave it to the Son or anything like that it literally says GOD gave it to Jesus Christ.

    #798170
     kerwin 
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    David,

    Jesus states in Revelation 1:8 -“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

    No, John says that as part of his introduction. He does talk about Jesus is the previous verse as Jesus is the most important one that comes in the clouds.

    #798172
     dL 
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    …THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST…

    “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and WHO IS TO COME, the Almighty.”

    Who is this One we wait for..???

    As if we don’t know – the previous verse tells us plainly..

    Look, He is coming with the clouds,” and “every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him”; and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of Him.” So shall it be! Amen

    This must be the clearest verse in the whole Bible to reveal the Deity of the Son..

    (Unless you think it is the Father returning…?!?)

     

    #798174
     NickHassan 
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    Hi davidl,

    Who is speaking?

    The book or Revelation switches between the Angel, The Son Jesus Christ and God Himself.

    You need to discern each voice before you rush to judgement.

    #798181
     kerwin 
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    It is John’s voice at that point and he simply quotes “The Lords God” according to some text or just “the Lord” according to other texts. The latter is vague enough that is is uncertain whom he is quoting but the version you chose is less vague in it attributes the quote to the Lord God. In the quote the Lord God speaks in the first person while John speaks of Jesus Christ in the third person.

    John also speaks of himself in the third person or it is a third party speaking but tradition teaches it is John. I went by tradition in the answer I gave above.

    #798332
     dL 
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    If the verse says that the One speaking is the One “who is, and who was, and who is to come,” – then you should immediately recognize Who is speaking…

    Surely it is only your built in prejudices against the trinity doctrine that hinders you from confessing the obvious truth…!

    ..a truth that sends you scuttling back into your dingy labyrinth of religious confusion..

    #798339
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Davidl,

    Yes you must be wary of the deceiver.

    Beware too of his works done through men.

    #798342
     kerwin 
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    DavidL,

    “Look, He is coming with the clouds,” and “every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him”; and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of Him.” So shall it be! Amen”

    These do not say Jesus is God but rather tell us of his second coming.

    Revelation 1:8New King James Version (NKJV)

    8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,”[a] says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
    Footnotes:

    Revelation 1:8 NU-Text and M-Text omit the Beginning and the End.
    Revelation 1:8 NU-Text and M-Text add God.

    8 is just a quote that is attributed to either 1) the Lord God or 2) the Lord.

    Nothing connects the two verses but given this part of Revelations is the introduction it may be a quote of the same statement that appears later in the actual prophecy.

    #798343
     kerwin 
    Participant
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    DavidL,

    “who is and who was and who is to come”

    When speaking of God it just means eternal in a language that does not have the equivalent of the word eternal.

    #798347
     kerwin 
    Participant
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    DavidL,

    I realize you believe it is speaking of Jesus as it states “to come” but their is also a world to come and many other things to come.

    #798348
     NickHassan 
    Participant
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    Hi davidl,

    Jesus Christ is the first of the new creation but also the last as he is the door for all others.

    #798419
     GeneBalthrop 
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    DavidL…….THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS , “who is, and who was, and who is to come”, is speaking of GOD THE FATHER. A TIME WILL COME WHEN GOD THE FATHER WILL LIVE AND DWELL AMONG HIS PEOPLE, JUST AS SCRIPTURE SAYS HE WILL. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours. ……………..gene

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