- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 05 2009,19:25) Hi CON,
So we are now soul, enlived by spirit in a perishable body.
You flip flopping?Hi Con,
Trying to establish a firm and shared foundation.
We see every view here such as the Biblical Unitarian body/spirit one.
Some confuse the breath of God, which gives men and angels their spirits, with the Spirit of GodNick……..Wrong man is a body + Spirit and the equals a SOUL.
And CT is right Jesus was DEAD AS DEAD CAN BE. He went no where but stayed dead for three days and nights as scripture and He said He did. He would have stayed dead for ever if GOD the FATHER did NOT raise HIM from that dead state and put Spirit back in His body. There is no middle existence . unless GOD recreates us a BODY and adds Spirit back into IT , its over for ever. Remember Jesus said don't fear them that can destory the body and after that can do nothing else, but fear Him who can destory (both) body and soul, (where) in the grave. Notice he can destory both body and soul why because a body with spirit in it is a soul. another words just not resurrect you and by not giving you a new body you would remain dead for ever. Your assumption of a Soul equal a Body+Soul+Spirit is an error. Because a BODY+SPIRIT= A SOUL.
gene
G,
The word helps to define between soul and Spirit.
You should rely on the Word.Mt 10.28 says nothing about the grave.
You should quote the Word accurately.You should not continue to offer to add your carnal wisdom to that of God.
What does Job ay?
Job 7:8-10 The eye of him that hath seen me shall see me no [more]: thine eyes [are] upon me, and I [am] not. [As] the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no [more]. He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more.
Job 10:19-22 I should have been as though I had not been; I should have been carried from the womb to the grave. [Are] not my days few? cease [then, and] let me alone, that I may take comfort a little, Before I go [whence] I shall not return, [even] to the land of darkness and the shadow of death; A land of darkness, as darkness [itself; and] of the shadow of death, without any order, and [where] the light [is] as darkness.
Job 14:10-15 is taught much like 1Corinthians 15:51-57
Job 14:10-15 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the [gava`] ghost/life, and where [is] he? [As] the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens [be] no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live [again]? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.
Gava`: To expire, die, perish, be dead, be ready to die, be about to die.
Job 17:13-14 If I wait, the grave [is] mine house: I have made my bed in the darkness. I have said to corruption, Thou [art] my father: to the worm, [Thou art] my mother, and my sister.
Job speaks of NO immortal ghost like entity wisking off to heaven or hell at death, he states man dies, stays in the grave, until the resurrection and then he is changed.
1Corinthians 15:51-57 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory? The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law. But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Here it says those who die and go to the grave do not remember anything including God, nor will they praise, confess, or give him thanks:
Psalm 6:5 For in [maveth] death [there is] no remembrance of thee: in the [shĕ'owl] grave who shall give thee thanks?
Maveth: Death, dying, state of death, place of death, Death (personified), realm of the dead.
Shĕ'owl: Grave, pit.
Here Psalm states man is in the grave until the resurrection:
Psalm 49: 14-15 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling. But God will redeem my [nephesh] soul/life from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah.
Does not say he will receive him before hand.
Again, dead is dead:
Psalm 88:5-12 Free among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand. Thou hast laid me in the lowest pit, in darkness, in the deeps. Thy wrath lieth hard upon me, and thou hast afflicted [me] with all thy waves. Selah. Thou hast put away mine acquaintance far from me; thou hast made me an abomination unto them: shut up, and I cannot come forth. Mine eye mourneth by reason of affliction: LORD, I have called daily upon thee, I have stretched out my hands unto thee. Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise [and] praise thee? Selah. Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? [or] thy faithfulness in destruction? Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?
Look, completely dead:
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do [it] with thy might; for [there is] no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can [not] celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
Seems the Old Testament didn't teach the concept of an immortal soul/spirit.
But it did teach redemption and the great ransom from the power of the grave at the resurrection.
Hosea 13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 05 2009,23:35) Hi CON,
So the soul of man rests in Sheol till the awakening.
So sayeth the scripturesQuote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 05 2009,20:19) Hi Con,
Trying to establish a firm and shared foundation.
We see every view here such as the Biblical Unitarian body/spirit one.
Some confuse the breath of God, which gives men and angels their spirits, with the Spirit of God
which gives men and angels their spirits, with the Spirit of GodGod gives man and angels life.
And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living [nephesh] soul/person. Genesis 2:7
Soul: Hebrew Nephesh: Self, living being, that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, the man himself, person or individual.
Hi CON,
Indeed God breathed into the soil [flesh] and man became a living[spirit] soul[soul] Gen 2.7
But men must be reborn to live by the Spirit of God.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 06 2009,00:09) Hi Con,
And for the LIVING who die the Spirit is yet with them in Sheol.[Ps 139.8]
Psalm 139:6-8 [Such] knowledge [is] too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot [attain] unto it. Whither shall I go from thy [ruwach] spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into [shamayim] heaven, thou [art] there: if I make my bed in [Shĕ'owl] hell, behold, thou [art there].Spirit: Hebrew Ruwach: Wind, breath, mind, breath of air, air.
Heaven: Hebrew Shamayim: Elevations [hills, mountains, etc], Heaven, heavens, sky, as abode of the stars, as the visible universe, the sky, atmosphere, Heaven (as the abode of God).
Shĕ'owl: Grave, pit.
He is saying God is a spirit, and his spirit is omnipresent, that God is everywhere, from the highest mountain to the lowest pit. There is no escaping the presence of God.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 06 2009,00:37) Hi CON,
Indeed God breathed into the soil [flesh] and man became a living[spirit] soul[soul] Gen 2.7
But men must be reborn to live by the Spirit of God.
Yes but your mixing apples and oranges.Man is a living soul because he breathes, but he needs to be born again to receive Gods indwelling spirit.
Hi CON.
There is only one true life and that is the life of God given as the Living Spirit at rebirth.
Only then have we passed from death to life and avoided the major risk of men facing judgement, the second death[Jn5]
Unless we drink the waters of eternal life from Jesus[jn7] we remain as natural men journeying each day to drink from the well, till the rope breaks and the bucket falls.[Ecc12]Nick,
Is Patriarch [King] David in Heaven?
Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. …
Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
King David is still in the grave. He is still asleep, still dead, not in heaven.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 06 2009,00:55) Hi CON.
There is only one true life and that is the life of God given as the Living Spirit at rebirth.
Only then have we passed from death to life and avoided the major risk of men facing judgement, the second death[Jn5]
Unless we drink the waters of eternal life from Jesus[jn7] we remain as natural men journeying each day to drink from the well, till the rope breaks and the bucket falls.[Ecc12]
I totally agree with that statement.
Hi Con,
Who said men go to heaven or is that a popular myth?
The meek shall inherit the earth.
Sheol too is of the earth.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
