Preexistence (Part 2)

This topic contains 8,150 replies, has 49 voices, and was last updated by  The Word’s Watchman 8 hours, 49 minutes ago.

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  • #834699
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Nick….I thought that you believed that spritual bodies meant a spirit being. I never though that a spritual body meant a spirit body.  I have said all along  that spritual bodies are flesh and bone bodies generated by spitit, as Jesus was raised from the grave with.  Even Adam and Eve had spritually generated bodies, God is spirit and he created them both himself, so they were spritually created, meaning they were created by GOD WHO IS SPIRIT.  They had the ability to live forever in those bodies , just as God who created them said. Gen 3:22

     

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

    #834700
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Gene,

    The seed planted is not the same as the plant that grows

    The bodies of the sons of Adam are as the seed.

    Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom.

    #834701
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Gene,

    Jn 12.24

    Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls to the ground and dies

    it remains by itself alone; but if it dies it bears much fruit.

     

    When Jesus was raised back to his old body he was still  ’ in the days of his flesh’ Heb 5.7

    When he was raised on high we were all invited to become one with him in his new Spiritual body.

     

    Get over flesh.

    #834702
     Jodi 
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    Hi Nick,

    The dragon we are told are kings that is a biblical FACT. Another biblical fact is that from man’s imagination and his ignorance lies are created. We are also told that some of God’s messengers the prophets were cast down out of God’s home because they spoke lies that they themselves devised. Some people when they die their last thought is knowing freedom, they believe in the resurrection of eternal life. Others die without this thought, they are reserved by God to awake to be in bondage once again to the fear of death. Those in Christ awake in freedom and rule over the earth able to follow God without any separation to overcome, no temptation, no BONDAGE as they have faith in God and have been set free able to follow His will perfectly. For 1,000 years the rest of the dead are reserved in bondage, where they will awake again to temptation and fear.

    Rev12.9

    And the great dragon was cast down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, Who deceives the whole world;

    The god of the dragon that the dragon WALKS AFTER, according to SCRIPTURE, is their OWN belly, their own internal adversary, they walk after their own devices. “12 And they said, There is no hope: but we will walk after our own devices, and we will every one do the imagination of his evil heart.” Cain walked after his own devices also. 

    Rev 20.2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for 1000 years.

    When only righteous men are dwelling on earth after the return of the Son of a human being, God on earth for 1,000 years puts away man’s own devices, everyone on earth follows YHWH’s will. Man’s own desires, his own will, the ignorant imagination, is reserved in chains, after the 1,000 when they awake they are let loose still bound to the fear of death, still seeking to follow their own way and their own will.

    Facts

    The dragon represents Kings

    Kings walk after their own devices from their imaginations

    These kings fall from their power and rulership, Jesus takes over rulership of the earth and dwells for 1,000 years.

    During the 1,0oo years the kings are reserved in chains, because as they are resurrected the enemy of death still exists, they are still in bondage fearing death. The old serpent still deceives.  Deceit comes from within man his own imagination, he is like a man beholding his natural face in the glass!

    “35 They conceive mischief, and bring forth vanity, and their belly prepareth deceit.”

     “20 Deceit is in the heart of them that imagine evil: but to the counsellors of peace is joy.”

    “21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. 22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. 23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: 24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. 25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. 26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion is vain. “

    I Nick am defining the slanderer and the adversary according to hundreds of scriptures, you on the other hand are defining these words according to a man made doctrine.

    We all have walked after the same thing, there is one same adversary to all men, this adversary was present to Christ but he overcame and did not walk after him, he was able to overcome the temptation to walk after the will of man, which dwells in deceit created from his own imagination.

    The King of Babylon had FALLEN for what he said in his heart, which was devised by his own imagination, his own desires, “For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

    The king of Babylon was cast down for the thoughts of his own heart, from his own imagination. His high pride took a fall as God made his kingdom fall.

    YHWH brings wisdom and prosperity to people, much of a nation’s prosperity has to do with discoveries and inventions. Where there is wisdom there is wealth and power. As the prophet Daniel says it is God who sets up kings and their nations. He controls territories and their boundaries, and people are able to acquire territories through wisdom and wealth, of which He has provided. When the time comes according to His will and plan haughty self righteous kings are brought down.  In Revelation 12, the king and all his messengers that obey the dragon’s will will be cast down, so that Christ can take over rulership. The dragon and his messengers are reserved in chains, awakening to once again their own devices from their own evil heart that imagines ways to serve the flesh and not God’s will. They are reserved for judgement.

    Where does sin come from? I explain where it comes FROM through countless scriptures that tell us directly.

     

    #834703
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    If you chose to believe scripture you would not have to do all this rationalisation and doctrinal justification.

    They are all variations of lies against the truth.

     

    #834704
     Jodi 
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    Hi Nick,

    I see that you have completely dodge my question!

    So when a person gets into a car accident and flies through the windshield and their head hits the pavement their mind is not effected when their brain suffers trauma?

    Please explain?

    Nick when someone faces trauma to their brain it can greatly affect their mind, this is because they are one and the same! I can’t believe I am having this conversation with you!

    Medications/drugs/alcohol that you digest that get circulated into your blood stream and reach your brain have a direct affect on the person’s mind,  this is because the mind and the brain are one and the same.

    You speak as if you are unaware that our heart pumps blood through our veins, as if you are ignorant to our organs and what we have learned about how they function. The bible does not contain what kidneys do, nor our gallbladder, nor the hippocampus within our brain so I guess to you any understanding of how they function just equates to lies.

    People getting dialysis at the hospital that must just be mad science lol, and their treatment is a lie, the aid to their health is just an illusion and people are delusional seeing it’s effects. Eye glasses are a lie also and we know nothing about the eyes and the occipital lobe within the brain.

    When a person suffers brain trauma and loses their memory and knowledge, and it is said that they have lost their mind, it wasn’t their head bashing into the windshield, according to you they must be demon possessed, the cat scan that shows bleeding and injury is also an illusion and what people see from it they don’t really see, the doctor is delusional, speaking lies to the patient. Goodness Nick are you for real?!!

    The prescription medication that a person takes for their depression has no affect on their mind? Please do explain Nick!

    #834706
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Did you find BRAIN in the bible?

    Perhaps your dogmas are of humanism?

    #834718
     Jodi 
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    Hi Nick,

    So you won’t answer my simple question?

    No you do not find the word brain in the bible, neither do you find kidney, gallbladder, spleen, the nervous system, larynx etc.

    Deuteronomy 30:1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,

    Isaiah 46:8 Remember this, and shew yourselves men: bring it again to mind, O ye transgressors.

    Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

    Lamentations 3:21 This I recall to my mind, therefore have I hope.

    Mark 14:72 And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.

    The mind recalls things, that is because the BRAIN contains memory. When a person is injured and suffers brain trauma they can lose their memory, they loose their ability in their mind to recall information they previously knew as that part of their brain has been damaged.

    So Nick, what does our brain do, and how do you know what it does do?

    What do our kidneys do, and how do you know what our kidneys do? 

    SIMPLE questions, do you DARE answer them??

     

    #834719
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Stuck in fleshly thinking?

    Do you not have the mind of Christ?

    #834721
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    But the Helper, The Holy Spirit, Whom the Father will send in my name,

    He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

    John 14.26

    And do not be conformed to the world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind,

    that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

    rom 12.2

     

    You think that you can substitute BRAIN for mind?

    You do not know the Spirit.

    #834722
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    So for the detail about the functions of the temporary tent we can ask you,

    though you telling us the heart pumps blood through the veins is a little doubtful.

    The beautiful truth in scripture is far more relevant for those who have been reborn from above.

    #834733
     Jodi 
    Participant
    • Topics started 9
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    Hi TC I read through your scriptures as evidence for your position.

    You: Christ was not glorified until after he (a) ascended into heaven where he received his heavenly house.

    Me:

    Christ received his heavenly house upon rising from the dead. He received his glory upon rising from the dead. He was raised in power upon rising from the dead. He rose from the dead having a body that had not been allowed to see decay that instead received eternal life. His heavenly house he received was eternal life. God is LIFE, God is Eternal, He is our Creator who gives eternal life, eternal life exists through His power, His design, where He is able to cause a living creature that He has made dwell without pain, suffering, or death. Our Creator is able to make a creature and brings it’s body to function optimally never tasting death again.

    You missed in your post key passages from Acts as well as elsewhere, in chapter 1 of Acts it talks about Jesus being taken up to God, and they were witnesses before hand to his resurrection from the dead. There exists NO passage that says that Jesus received his glory when he ascended to heaven, on the contrary we are told directly that people were witnesses to his glory when he appeared to many after being raised from the dead. The below passage emphasizes people being witnesses of his resurrection, not his glory that you say he received upon ascending to heaven.

    Acts 1: 21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

    Acts 2: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

    30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

    32: 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

    34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

    Acts 13:29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. 30 But God raised him from the dead: 31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. 32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

    The PROMISE that God had given had been fulfilled upon the rising of Christ from death. There is no passage that says he transformed after he rose, on the contrary scriptures says directly that he received his eternal body upon his rising from the dead, and that it was the same body he had before as it was not allowed to see decay, but eternal life.

    35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: 37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.

    Romans 1: 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

    PLAIN and SIMPLE, BY the resurrection from the dead Jesus is declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of holiness.

    TC if what you say were true these scriptures would have been written quite different entirely!! If what you say were true Paul would have said that Jesus is declared to be the Son of God WITH POWER, according to the Spirit, by his transformation when he ascended to heaven.

    Passages speaking of Christ, say specifically and repeatedly that his power and his glory and his heavenly house of eternal life was received upon him RISING from the DEAD, NOT from when he ascended to heaven.

    1 Corinthians 15: 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

    TC, PLAIN and SIMPLE the below passages speak of the RESURRECTION of the dead, being RAISED from the dead in incorruption, in glory, in power, and as a spiritual body. We will be like Jesus, RISING from the dead receiving glory, power, and a spiritual body. Christ BECAME the firstfruits upon rising from the dead, this is when he received the gifts of the Spirit including a BODY given eternal life a heavenly house. A heavenly house is a house given by God, it is a house of eternal life. Jesus’s body was not allowed to see decay it instead was clothed with eternal life, being given eternal life, being given a house from heaven, which means a house from God.

    Titus 1: 2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began

    1 John 2: 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

    40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was madea living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

    Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

    It’s all about him rising from the dead, NOT transforming while ascending to heaven. We are risen with him, we are to be as he is from WHEN he had risen.

     

    2 Co 5: 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.   16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

    TC Paul said we know no man AFTER the flesh, he is speaking of weak mortal flesh. What he was speaking of in Corinthians he spoke in detail in Romans.

    Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

    First of all Jesus walked in newness of life upon rising from the dead by the GLORY of the Father because he had been raised with the power of the Spirit. He walked in newness of life because his flesh and bones body he had could not tempt him. There was nothing tempting him to separate him from God. Second we are to see ourselves in newness of this life where our weak mortal flesh bodies that fear death are dead also.

    5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

    Upon Jesus rising from the dead he received a body that could not be tempted, he was a NEW MAN, a NEW man because DEATH no more had dominion over him, he no longer could be tempted by weak mortal flesh. He had been raised as we are told in power and glory a NEW man and he was raised flesh and bones a body that could not sin because DEATH no longer had dominion over him.

    7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

    Knowing that we too will be risen as Jesus was risen, it is to give us strength so that we may not have confidence in the flesh that has dominion over us, we are to walk in newness of life as if we are absent from the weak mortal body. Paul is saying in 2 Corinthians that people in Christ, we know those people no more AFTER the flesh that is in bondage to the fear of death, we know them as if they have been raised in newness of life by the glory of our Father, where temptation and sin are dead.

    Christ was glorified upon rising from the dead, at that time he received his house from heaven, he had a body of flesh and bones that had received eternal life, where death no longer had dominion over him, tempting him to obey his flesh. He now had flesh raised in power and glory that was incorruptible, free from any temptation to sin.

    #834734
     Jodi 
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    Hi Nick,

    When a person is in a car accident and they are ejected from their car and their skull is crushed and their BRAIN suffers trauma, how is it that the MIND is not a part of the brain, when that person’s MIND is directly affected by the trauma to the brain?

    The doctor can look at what area of the brain has suffered trauma through a cat scan and they can predict before the person wakes from their coma how their MIND will be affected.

    The fact of the matter is that God gave us a brain, why?

    Nick what does our brain do? What is it’s function?

    What Nick, the ONLY knowledge that God has given to man exists solely from scripture?

    You are not listening to what the scriptures say. God is wisdom, understanding, and knowledge, men after Revelation was written, have most certainly increased in wisdom, understanding, and knowledge. I am thankful that God gave people the wisdom necessary to invent eye glasses, mechanisms to purify dirty water, I could give a list that goes on and on and on and on!! God has given man wisdom to discover things about our bodies and the earth, that wisdom we see for some is used under a righteous manner doing good, while at other times it is used for a person’s own gain and is doing evil.

     

    #834735
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Those whose minds are earthbound cannot grasp the heavenly.

    Paul knew his tent was to be folded up and he awaited a new habitation from above. 2cor5.1

     

    Is that not your hope? Is fear of death your constant companion. Dig deeper.

    #834736
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    You say.

    THE HEAVENLY HOUSE HE RECEIVED WAS ETERNAL LIFE.

    Rubbish.

    A house or tent is something we dwell in.

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