Preexistence (Part 2)

This topic contains 7,833 replies, has 49 voices, and was last updated by  GeneBalthrop 2 hours, 1 minute ago.

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  • #832160
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Anthony. …your mixing up what present day Gnostic’s say, with the Gnostic’s of PAUL AND JOHNS DAY SAID.

    Your also mixing up the two covenants the old , where God was a husband to the ISREALITES. That old covenant is not the same as the new covenant.

    You also add words to what is written in scripture to try to shore up your doctrines. No wher did Jesus ever say he was alive before Abraham, forcing t h e text to say what it does not “specifically” say is your source of confusions. If you read the works of tri itarian scholars of course they are going to back up trinitarian teachings.

    You trying to make Jesus God the Father, is wrong simple logic tzells you that “how can a son be his ownfather? Jesus said the father is “nin” me, he never said he was the father that was “in” him. In fact he told Mary to go tell his brothers that he was going to “his father”, and “our father”, “his God” and “our God”. No difference between him and us in his and our relationship.

    You have been greately indoctrinated over many years, of false teachings, it will be hard for you to come out of those false teachings unless God the Father helps you. We are commanded to come out of her (the false church ) my people, that you recieve not of her plagues.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene

    #832163
     Anthony 
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    Hi Gene  you don’t have a clue what I’m talking about. You keep on trying to tell me that’s not how the gnostic believe, well I don’t know what to tell you Gene but that’s how they belive (that Jesus Christ was just a man and was adopted by God. (At His baptism) just like you. God bless

    #832165
     Anthony 
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    Hi Gene Nick and Jodi

    You keep on tell evryever that doesn’t agree with you that there confused or they have the anti-christ spirit.but open your eyes it’s you three that is confused and have the anti-christ spirit.

    Jesus said, “And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began”(John 17:5) do you three belive that yes or no. You three are like the Trinity lol, God bless.

     

    #832167
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Anthony,

    2cor 4.7

    ‘ But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of the power will be of God and not ourselves:’

    This is Paul speaking of himself and the anointed brothers who were following Jesus Christ.

    Do you think it related to Jesus as well?

    Can you follow him?

     

    #832168
     NickHassan 
    Participant
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    Hi Anthony,

    You are desperately pouring out words to convince yourself you are not deceived.

    Relax. It is simple.

    As you agreed Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God.

    Build on that and your misconceptions will fade.

     

    #832171
     GeneBalthrop 
    Participant
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    Anthony. ..what Nick has said is right brother.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene

    #832174
     The Word’s Watchman 
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    Hi Anthony,

    Regarding. Before Abraham was, I am. Would be best translated I am he. Refers to whom God had promised, the Messiah, the Son of Man. The expression is said several times in John 8 and throughout John. Sometimes translators add “he” sometimes not. Have to read in the context, and scope of Word. see (John 8:28, 13:19)

    Plus. The I AM, was disclosed to Moses, way after Abraham, so really doesn’t have a connection.

    John 8:18  I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. (1+1=2). Jesus died (not God), was raised from the dead by God (didn’t raise himself), was glorified and sent another comforter (the holy spirit), in his place, which is a gift for you to have the same power that Jesus did (John 14:12). Having the holy spirit in you is just saying God is in Christ who is in you, it’s your connection back to God, Jesus isn’t literally in you. We are one with Jesus and the Father via God’s spirit (John 17:11) – Jesus praying to the Father.

    Jesus took only part of flesh and blood, (Heb 2:14) he took the flesh part. It’s not saying he’s a God-Man. But that he wasn’t born from the cursed bloodline of Adam.

    Note: God is the husbandman, Jesus is the true vine, we are the branches.

    #832184
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
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    Hi WW,

    Is the vine more alike to the husbandman or the branches?

    #832185
     NickHassan 
    Participant
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    Hi WW,

    Was Jesus conceived of Mary?

    Was Jesus not a son of Adam(man)?

    Luke 3.38

    ..the son of Adam, the son of God.

     

     

    #832187
     NickHassan 
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    Hi WW,

    The second Adam was born of a woman.

    Gal 4.4

    But when the fullness of the time came God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law.

    Jb 25.4

    How can a man be just with God ? Or how can he be clean who is born of woman?

     

    Religion would offer us a godman but we follow one who had a difficult path to walk.

     

     

    #832192
     Anthony 
    Participant
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    Hi Gene this may help : you said, before Abraham was, would be like you being in line before me that it’s doesn’t mean ” be born before Him (Abraham).

    Anthony. …saying i am before a person is not the same as saying i was “born” before that person. If we were in a line and i was in front of you could not i say, before Anthony i am, that would have nothing to do with me being born before you now would it. In fact, if i were to reference a berth i would say i was “born” before you, so would have Jesus if that were what he was talking about.

    #832193
     Anthony 
    Participant
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    Hi Gene

    John 8:58, NIV: “Very truly I tell you,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!'”

    John 8:58, ESV: “Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.””

    John 8:58, KJV: “Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”

    John 8:58, NASB: “Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'”

    John 8:58, NLT: “Jesus answered, ‘I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!'”

    John 8:58, CSB: “Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, before Abraham was, I am.””

    #832194
     Anthony 
    Participant
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    Hi Gene

    This may help. In Koine Greek, thus some interpret it, as Jesus’ own self-declaration as God. In John 8:24 Jesus states: “For unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins”, and later the crowd attempts to stone Jesus in response to his statement in John 8:58: “Before Abraham was, I am.”. Many other translations including the ASV have rendered John 8:24 as something like “… For unless you believe that I am [he], you will die in your sins ” this is the same words “I am” He told Moses to tell them who send him. Jesus Christ was telling the Jews in John 8:58.    God bless

    #832195
     Anthony 
    Participant
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    Hi Gene

    In its extent, the preposition “before” reaches back into the past without end or limit, and so “Before Abraham was, [εγω ειμι]” clearly need not mean “after Adam,” just as “before the Morning Star” need not mean “after the angels.” But when He said “before [πριν],” He intended, not that He was included in any one’s existence, but that all things are included in His, God bless I hope that help.

    #832198
     Anthony 
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    Gene I can’t help it if scriptures say that. But as far as The only begotten Son (Jesus Christ) I believe as for now that he Had a beginning . I can’t see what the Trinity doctorine says as far as eternal generation or eternal Sonship. I believe He was begotten of the Father before all ages or the foundation of the world. I believe that He come out of the Father. I just wanted to make that clear with you and I don’t believe that the Holy Spirit is a person I believe that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father and His Son. I just wanted to make that clear to you you keep saying that I’m a Trinitarian. Well God bless

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