Preexistence (Part 2)

This topic contains 7,857 replies, has 49 voices, and was last updated by  Truthcomber 3 hours, 58 minutes ago.

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  • #821285
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Tigger,

    Jesus was conceived in Mary.

    Do you think he existed as an angel called Michael prior to his conception?

    Heb 1.13

    But to which of the angels said He at any time.

    ”Sit at My right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.”

    Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

    dan 10.13

    …But lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia”

    #821767
     t8 
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    Hi,

    So preexistence is an idea that grew from the inability of natural men

    to grasp the fact that the Spirit spoke through the anointed man Jesus.

    It makes little difference to me the origin of Jesus Christ as I have no preference in my heart.  I can only go by scripture and not your words or Gene’s or others who do not believe what is written about Jesus. Here is why I believe. Not because I have a bias toward Jesus being a preexistent cherub or seraph or whatever it is you imply. Honestly, who can blame me for believing the following if I desire to please God. Further, when I quote scriptures only in a post and do not even give my stance as to whether he preexisted or not, you start frothing at the mouth. Because the scriptures say and imply he existed, thus you take it that this is what I believe and you are correct in that respect. Hilarious because my witness are these scriptures and I am wrong apparently meaning these scriptures are wrong. What other conclusion is there? Gene is the same. I do not say outright that Jesus preexisted. I merely give these scriptures and interpret them or teach about them and that is enough to get him manifesting something too. Funny but still serious. Here are some of the scriptures I believe on this subject.

    For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

    “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!

    to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

    He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

    Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

    In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

    He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

    The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

    And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

    As you can see, I have not even said that Jesus preexisted in this post too, but these scriptures will be enough to get you opposing what they are saying and implying.

     

    #821774
     NickHassan 
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    Hi T8,

    You did agree that God spoke through the prophets and spoke through His Son as Heb 1 tells us.

    Why then do you think it was the man speaking of himself when Jesus said

     

    ”Before Abraham I am”

    #821815
     Jodi 
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    Jesus is the firstfruits of the Spirit, the firstborn of the resurrection. So when Jesus said that he is before Abraham he was speaking of the resurrection. Jesus is before him because he is the eternal King of Kings! Before him not by a DATE, but before him as a line leader.

    #822259
     t8 
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    Ask yourself. Was Jesus telling the truth?
    It appears some must believe he was not.

    And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

    #822272
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,

    If you could hear the voice of the Spirit in the anointed man you would see what was meant.

    #822343
     t8 
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    So if Jesus didn’t speak ever, rather God spoke through him like a mouthpiece, then the Father has a Father?

    And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

    Do you see your dilema?

    Obviously speaking for yourself does not include speaking the truth of God about oneself. He said he was the Christ. So the Father is Christ?

    So many errors arise from your teaching here Nick. Too many to mention. Might need to reconsider.

    #822351
     NickHassan 
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    Hi T8,

    Not a problem if you can discern when God spoke through him.

    Surely you are not denying that God spoke through him?

    But deny that God used him to teach is a big mistake.

    #822354
     GeneBalthrop 
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    T8….what do you do with scriptures that say “God was “in” Jesus reconciling the world unto himself”. And again where jesus said, the son of man can do “nothing” of himself, the Father who is in him “he” does the works”. And again , “the words i am telling you are “not” my words but the words of him who sent me.

    T8, tell us who spoke this, ” destory this “temple” and in three days “I” shall raise “it” up”, tell us how does a dead man raise himself up from death? If you had eyes to see you would realize the “I” there speaking was God the Father, directly speaking through the mouth of Jesus.

    Why can’t you realize it was true God who by way of the anointing Spirit was living “in” Jesus’ body (which he recond as a temple), just as he does our bodies. “Don’t you know that your body “is” the temple of the living GOD”, says PAUL, AND AGAIN, “Now if the spirit of him who raised christ Jesus from the grave dwells in you, HE (God) shall also quicken your mortal (dead) body”, just like he did Jesus’.

    Why do you continually try to seperate Jesus our lord, or better our brother, from us, from our likeness of him and his likeness of us. As i said before brother you seem to be stuck by holding on to some of your old trinitarian teachings. You have come part way out, but not all the way yet. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours. ……gene

    #822356
     NickHassan 
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    Hi T8,

    In your confusion you have turned on your brothers and denigrated and abused them.

    But you rather need to discern the things spoken by Jesus Christ.

     

    When he said “I thirst” that was the man speaking.

     

    But the fellowship we have in the Holy Spirit is with the Father and the Son.

    1 jn1.3-7 makes this clear as does 2 Jn 9, and when Jesus says ‘We will come to you’ in Jn 14 .23

    Again Gal 4 .6 clarifies the times when the Word, the Spirit of the Son speaks

    ”Because you are sons God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts crying, ABBA FATHER”

    and this is witnessed in Romans 8. 15 and as in the example you offered where Jesus speaks to the Father.

     

    But Jesus said he will send us another Counsellor, the Spirit of truth from the Father.

    He said when we appear before judges we are not to prepare what to say for the Spirit of the Father will speak through us.

    When Jesus said that “ before Abraham I Am” that may have been the Father speaking.

    And when in Jn 2.20 he said “Destroy this temple and in 3 days I will raise it up “ that was the Father speaking.

     

    There is One Spirit.

    So dig deeper rather than getting into foolish contention.

     

     

     

     

    #822364
     Ed J 
    Participant
    • Topics started 155
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    So if Jesus didn’t speak ever, rather God spoke through him like a mouthpiece, then the Father has a Father?

    And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

    Do you see your dilema?

    Obviously speaking for yourself does not include speaking the truth of God about oneself. He said he was the Christ. So the Father is Christ?

    So many errors arise from your teaching here Nick. Too many to mention. Might need to reconsider.

    Hi T8,

    In your confusion you have turned on your brothers and denigrated and abused them.

    Hi Nick,

    T8 is NOT abusing you??? – He is merely pointing out the error in your Theology

    “But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light:
    for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.” (Ephesians 5:13)

    “Is a candle brought to be put under a bushel, or under a bed? and not to be set on a candlestick?
    For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but
    that it should come abroad. If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.” (Mark 4:21-23)

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    #822365
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Ed,

    The Word was with God in the beginning.

    The Word had glory with God in the beginning.

    The word said “I proceeded forth and came from God.”

    Can you not discern the voice of the Son from that of His Father?

    #822366
     Ed J 
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    Can you not discern the voice of the Son from that of His Father?

    Hi Nick,

    It is you that says the voice of the Son (spirit of Christ) is the voice of the Father (HolySpirit).

    …so it is YOU that cannot distinguish the two.

    #822367
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Ed,

    No I do not say that.

     

    God is Spirit.

    Now the Lord is the Spirit.

    The Father and I are one.

    But the Son is not the Father.

     

    My sheep will hear my voice.

     

    #822522
     t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 890
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    Thanks EdJ.

    You speak the truth in this regard.

    To reprove using scripture is not abuse.

    Unless a man teaches otherwise, he may feel threatened for sure.

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