Law

This topic contains 261 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by  GeneBalthrop 5 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #122477
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Thinker……..You are right laws do teach, just like our Speed laws they teach us how to drive safely, but they by no means can make you a safe driver. The intent of these laws are for safety , but because there are unsafe drivers we have to codify (Safety) into Laws, and when we do that we then have to (enforce) them, through enforcement means, Highway Patrol, fines , courts, etc. Mind you for Just safty we do this. Why because human nature is not safety minded as a rule So people ar force to through the medium of Law which generates fear and there by control and regulates the unsafe behavior, but again not of this can ever make a person a safe driver. If we did not have Stop signs the death total would ski rocket here. But at the same time there are those who are natural safety minded and would slow down or stop at intersections even if there weren't any traffic Laws, because they are already safety minded. These people don't need any (LAW) they are already Safety minded and therefore fullfill the (INTENT) of the LAW, which is Safety.

    You see SAFETY has not been done away with at all. So the person who drives doesn't need (LAW), but because he doesn't need law, that does not remove SAFETY From the picture it still remains. Even so with the Ten Commandments, they still remain even without the law (forced compliance) working through the medium of fear.

    You see my point, (LAW) forced compliance through the medium of FEAR, can Never make a person right, But that does not get rid of the Ten Commandments, we Simply are changed by GOD to fulfill them. So the Commandments are eternal Just Who we Keep them was what Paul was talking about. IMO

    love and peace to you and yours brother…………………………….gene

    #122491
     SEEKING 
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    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 22 2009,10:49)
    Hi S,
    of course when Jesus said
    MY COMMANDMENTS
    he was not referring to the
    TEN COMMANDMENTS

    They are of God.

    Jesus gave commandments.

    You must be born again
    Love one another as I have loved you
    Do this in memory of me  etc


    When did He teach to violate them?

    Rather He taught how to fulfill the law and the prophets by quoting them.

    Mat 22:36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”
    Mat 22:37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
    Mat 22:38 This is the great and first commandment.
    Mat 22:39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
    Mat 22:40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

    #122493
     NickHassan 
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    Hi S,
    Did I say he taught gentiles to violate the commandments?
    Please be careful in your choice of words.

    As you show above he taught about the Law.
    He taught the Jews about it because it related to them.
    But he did not then teach that all gentiles must obey the OT law.

    He is TRUTH and so we should be careful what we ask him.

    #122507
     david 
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    Quote
    Jesus gave commandments.

    You must be born again

    This wasn't so much a command as a statement of fact. (It's not rendered in the imperative mood or the form of a command.)
    Some Bibles translate this such as: “It is necessary for you to be born from above.” (Modern Young's Literal translation; John 3:7)
    Example:
    And outsider says to a principle:”I want to enroll in your school.”

    Princpal tells him: “To enroll, you must be a native.”

    He is not ordering the guy to become a native. He's simply stating a fact.

    It's God who gives the “new birth.” (1 pet 1:3), not we ourselves.

    #122510
     SEEKING 
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    nick wrote:

    Nick,

    You are back to the double talk!   You say –

    Quote
    Did I say he taught gentiles to violate the commandments?
    Please be careful in your choice of words.

    Then you say –

    Quote
    But he did not then teach that

    Quote
    all

    Quote
    gentiles must obey the OT law

    So, what are you saying? Some of the Gentiles had to obey the law? None of the Gentiles had to obey the law? Neither?

    Which of the two laws that Jesus quoted do not apply to Jew and Gentile? Do you infer that if a statement is made to Jews it has no application to Gentiles?

    Act 2:36 Let all the house of Israel ]herefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.” Act 2:37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” herefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.” Act 2:37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
    Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit Only has application to Jews?

    #122511
     NickHassan 
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    Hi S,
    The OT law is for those under the Law.[Rom2-3]

    What Peter said was to remind the Jews that the ONE THEY HAD CRUCIFIED is made Lord and Christ

    #122515
     SEEKING 
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    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 22 2009,16:05)
    What Peter said was to remind the Jews that the ONE THEY HAD CRUCIFIED is made Lord and Christ


    Nick,

    Your cleverness has left your stranded unless you rhetoric is meaningless and void.

    Act 2:36  Let all the house of Israel ]herefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.” Act 2:37  Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” herefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.” Act 2:37  Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
    Act 2:38  And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit  Only has application to Jews?

    Again, your own words responding to the above passages –

    What Peter said was to remind the Jews that the ONE THEY HAD CRUCIFIED is made Lord and Christ

    No meaning for Gentiles, no meaning for forgiveness and receipt of the Spirit,  no necessity for baptism.  Just,
    per Nick – to remind the Jews that the ONE THEY HAD CRUCIFIED is made Lord and Christ

    Forgive me if I do not accept this!

    #122516
     KangarooJack 
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    Gene said:

    Quote
    Thinker……..You are right laws do teach, just like our Speed laws they teach us how to drive safely, but they by no means can make you a safe driver.

    Exactly!! The ten commandments can make no one righteous. It shows us that we are sinners. Paul said that there is no law against the fruit of the spirit. In other words, the fruit of the spirit is new covenant.

    thinker

    #122522
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TT,
    So the NEW COVENANT began at Pentecost?

    #122528
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Thinker…………So the conclusion is that the (ten commandments)themselves are not the subject matter of Paul's discourse, but rather (HOW) They are Kept, “the Love of God fulfills the LAW (the ten commandments)” The Jew were seeking the righteousness of GOD through the operation of (Law),Forced compliance working through the medium of FEAR, We seek the fulfillment of the commandments through the operation of GOD Spirit and through the Spirit we fulfill all the Commandments. So Paul could say the gentiles who have (NOT) the LAW (ten commandments), but do the things contained therein Show (the LAW) ten commandments written in their Hearts by the Hand of GOD. So its not a matter of the Commandments being done away with but simply How they are Kept. I believe the ten commandments are eternal and will never be done away with The ten commandments reveal to us the mind and heart of GOD they are Eternal Just like the FATHER is. They operate through the Medium of Love , NOT FEAR. IMO

    love and peace to you brother………………………………gene

    #122529
     NickHassan 
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    G,
    The grace of the righteous fear of God permeates the works of the OT and the NT.

    2 Corinthians 7:1
    Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

    #122532
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Nick………..But Scripture says < "Nothing is perfected in FEAR, For Fear has torment". It also says "love casts OUT FEAR". And it Also says "For you have (NOT) received the Spirit (OF FEAR) but of power and of Love and a sound Mind." How many times we have to go over this Nick? Do you believe what scripture say or not? And you should know that the Fear of God , is reverence or we have a contradiction of scriptures.

    Why are you stuck on the elementary teachings of and Not graduate to the Higher level of GOD which is LOVE. Which CASTS OUT FEAR.

    peace………………….gene

    #122535
     NickHassan 
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    G,
    The love of God does not give men license to misbehave.
    They should always remember God's awesome powers.
    And also our utter lack of deserving His kind favour

    #122536
     NickHassan 
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    Hi S,
    One Lord, one baptism for Jew and gentile.
    Same gospel.
    One way

    Try not to get so excited when you think you have scored some sort of useless point.
    We are all students here.

    #122545
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Nick………..Where Did (I) or anyone here say the Love of GOD is a license to sin, I have been here almost two years and have (NEVER) heard (ANYONE) say the Love of God is a License to SIN. So why do you even insinuate me or anyone else for that matter is suggesting such a thing. Can you ever stop insinuating false statements, that is the same as Lying. Why do you keep rebuking everyone, What is you motive , what is behind it all. No one here thinks the Love of God is a license to sin. IMO

    peace and love……………………………..gene

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