Jesus came in the flesh and/or changed to flesh

This topic contains 2,120 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by  NickHassan 3 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #359656
     journey42 
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    kerwin,Oct. wrote:

    Quote
    Nordic elves were said to be spirit creatures who can pass through walls and display other miracles powers but were still able to breed with mankind.  Spirits on the other hand could neither eat or be touched.

    Hebrews 1:13   But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

    Hebrews 1:14   Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

    Quote
    I know of no scripture that calls angels spirits of any type but they would in many ways fit the same definition as do Nordic elves.  They do not fit the definition that is applied to ghosts.

    Hi Kerwin,
    Angels are not flesh, therefore they are spirit.
    They are also called Ministering spirits.
    Ministering spirits carrying out God's orders.  They are heavenly creatures doing God's work for him.
    Nordic elves are these other type of spirit creatures, and not heavenly.
    Both are spirits regardless, and if talking about a particular one then it's singular – we say a spirit.
    one is a good spirit,
    and the other an evil spirit.

    #359659
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 16 2013,11:39)
    It seems to me that many people here have the idea that these words God spoke actually went out and created things.  Like the words, “Let there be light” left out of God's mouth, and then went and created light for God.

    And the reason they come up with this kind of thinking is because they can't figure out another way how, in John 1, the Word could both be with God, and also be God.  


    Mike………That not true , God and His word are ONE and the same thing , Just as your words and you are one and the Same.

    If God said something in the “beginning”, and then did it , How does that make his word that was with him a Different “God”, then Him? God and his word are ONE and connected, Just as you and your words are.

    Just that simple. John 1:1 is not relating to Jesus at all but God the Father alone. God plainly say He performs His word, Need scripture i can find it for you. He say his word does not go out of his mouth and come back empty, but performs that which he send it to. Why?, because God is a SPIRIT and His WORD are SPIRIT also, They are connected as ONE and the Same..

    You have simply bought into the LIE Spoken of in 2 Ths2. Jesus Can and does and did Speak God words , as he who was “IN” him was directing Him to Do. But none of that made Jesus a God of any kind,

    That is if you believe scriptures about the “ONENESS” of GOD. as I have quoted many times and you always seen to get around admitting them as true.

    By the way you still have not answered this one.

    1 Cor 8:4…> We know that there is no Idol in the world, and that there “NO” God but “ONE”.

    peace and love………………………gene

    #359662
     kerwin 
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    Journey,

    The “ministering” in “ministering spirits” tells us that  “spirits” as in they are “kind spirits” can apply and fits with the idea of what the angels action is in Hebrews 1:13-2:1.  

    Hebrews 1:13-2:1
    Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
    1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.

    Jesus assumed spirits cannot be touched nor can they eat both which angels are recording as doing and therefor cannot be spirits.  I took the liberty of pointing out there are other kinds of spirits, of which the Nordic elves manifests many of the same traits angels are said to.  Of course the elves being living creatures have bear flesh.

    #359663
     kerwin 
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    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 16 2013,05:24)

    Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 13 2013,17:53)
    I will judge which I feel fit in with the conversation and are significant.


    Okay.  If and when you feel fit to answer all nine exactly as I've asked, I will continue on with this discussion.

    BTW, your “dress” analogy is SO not applicable.  Perhaps, when the day comes that people can say, “Human beings consist of DRESS and blood”, it will apply to this particular discussion.

    Until that time, this kind of nonsense you come up with does nothing but waste peoples' time.


    Mike,

    I believe you are trying to dodge a conversation you find uncomfortable. I chose to answer your questions to the point I could reasonably do until make changes to them. In other words improve your communications.

    #359664
     kerwin 
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    Mike,

    Can you say that you believe that “the word was made flesh” means “A creature named the word was transformed into a human being”?

    #359669
     journey42 
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    Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 17 2013,06:03)
    Journey,

    The “ministering” in “ministering spirits” tells us that  “spirits” as in they are “kind spirits” can apply and fits with the idea of what the angels action is in Hebrews 1:13-2:1.  

    Hebrews 1:13-2:1
    Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
    1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.

    Jesus assumed spirits cannot be touched nor can they eat both which angels are recording as doing and therefor cannot be spirits.  I took the liberty of pointing out there are other kinds of spirits, of which the Nordic elves manifests many of the same traits angels are said to.  Of course the elves being living creatures have bear flesh.


    Hi Kerwin

    If we can stick to one thing at a time that would be great.
    You said that no-where in scripture are angels referred to as spirits.
    I gave you the scripture that says otherwise.
    You can see for yourself now that you have missed this verse, therefore your view was distorted on this particular matter, but should be clarified now.

    We should accept when we are in error, then the truth can continue to grow and not be a stumbling block.

    #359670
     mikeboll64 
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    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 16 2013,09:36)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 16 2013,11:39)
    It seems to me that many people here have the idea that these words God spoke actually went out and created things.  Like the words, “Let there be light” left out of God's mouth, and then went and created light for God.

    And the reason they come up with this kind of thinking is because they can't figure out another way how, in John 1, the Word could both be with God, and also be God.  


    Mike………That not true , God and His word are ONE and the same thing……..


    If that was really true, Gene, then it was Jehovah Himself who BECAME FLESH and dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son.

    And that means John the Baptist said these words about Jehovah Himself: He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.

    But in reality, John the Baptist said those words about “the Word” in verse 15, and about “Jesus Christ” in verse 30.

    #359671
     mikeboll64 
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    Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 16 2013,13:03)
    Jesus assumed spirits cannot be touched nor can they eat……….


    It amazes me how Kerwin will just continue to teach this claim – as if there is scriptural proof of it. There isn't.

    Angels are spirit beings. They live in the spirit realm of heaven.

    #359672
     mikeboll64 
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    Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 16 2013,13:15)
    Mike,

    I believe you are trying to dodge a conversation you find uncomfortable.


    Then you don't know me very well yet, Kerwin. :)

    I don't “dodge” anything – because I don't even BELIEVE any doctrine unless I can scripturally PROVE it. There is nothing for me to “dodge”.

    Now, I've asked 9 very simple YES or NO questions. If and when you list all nine, with a YES or NO answer beside each one, we will continue.

    (And by YES or NO, I do not prohibit further explanations as to WHY an answer was either YES or NO. You can say as much as you want about your YES or NO answer – as long as your response actually starts with the word “YES” or the word “NO”.)

    #359673
     mikeboll64 
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    Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 16 2013,13:20)
    Mike,

    Can you say that you believe that “the word was made flesh” means “A creature named the word was transformed into a human being”?


    I say that a spirit creature (the first one ever created) who has as one of his many titles, “The Word of God”, was transformed from a spirit being to a flesh being.

    And yes, all nine of the statements in that previous post would be different ways of sensibly saying the same exact thing.

    #359674
     mikeboll64 
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    Quote (journey42 @ Oct. 16 2013,17:31)
    Hi Kerwin

    If we can stick to one thing at a time that would be great.
    You said that no-where in scripture are angels referred to as spirits.
    I gave you the scripture that says otherwise.
    You can see for yourself now that you have missed this verse, therefore your view was distorted on this particular matter, but should be clarified now.

    We should accept when we are in error, then the truth can continue to grow and not be a stumbling block.


    Amen.

    #359675
     Wakeup 
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    Quote (942767 @ Oct. 15 2013,02:25)

    Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 14 2013,11:56)

    Quote (942767 @ Oct. 14 2013,11:09)
    Hi Wakeup:'

    You say:

    Quote
    He was made flesh, by birth,the only begotten of God.
    Born by the *WILL* of God.
    *Now only* is he the Son of God;
    *Now only* is God his father,and his God.
    For he was made as his brethren/the Son of man/the Son of David.

    So, the Word was made flesh by birth, that is to say when the Word, Jesus, was born of the virgin Mary?  And he was not the Son of God as the Word but became the Son of God when he was born of the virgin Mary?

    And you say:

    Quote

    In the BEGINNING was the word.
    *BEGINNING* because that's when the Word *BEGINS* To create.

    Please show me where the scriptures state that the Word begins to create.  Thanks.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty


    Marty.

    In the beginning was the Word.
    Before the BEGINNING; the word was not used to create.
    Before the beginning the Word was not uttered by God.
    But was in God;but the creation has not commenced.

    wakeup.


    Hi Wakeup:

    While it is true and is scriptural that God created everything by His Word, and when he began to create, this Word, or plan was already established, and He knew from the beginning what He was going to do with what he was going to create and what He was going to do with His creation, humanity, and He Knew what He was going to say to humanity through those serving Him, angels, prophets, Jesus, and whatever else was in his plan in reconciling humanity to Himself, that is not what you said initially, but you said that “the Word began to create”, indicating that Jesus, whom you say is the Word, is the creator.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty


    Marty.

    Yes;Jesus created everything,
    but that was *before* He was made flesh.

    God will's: and his image spoke the Words, and it is done.

    Jesus became the Son of God *after* he was made flesh.
    Before that; He was THE WORD OF GOD,who was *with* God.

    And *before* all creation started,the Word was *IN* God.
    Then He was *brought forth*; next to God,as the express image of God.He created all, by the *WILL* of God.

    Then he was made flesh,by birth.
    Then he is called Jesus,the Son of God.
    The Son's God is our God.
    The Son himself is to be worshipped.
    All must go through the Son; or nothing.

    wakeup.

    wakeup.

    #359683
     mikeboll64 
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    Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 16 2013,18:12)
    Yes;Jesus created everything,
    but that was *before* He was made flesh.


    So Jesus WAS the very God who created all things when he was “the Word”, but then he became flesh and dwelled on earth – not with the glory of the God he USED TO BE – but with the glory of God's SON?   ???

    Wakeup, God alone created all things.  The Word did not create anything, nor did Jesus.

    And for crying out loud, something that used to be God did not change into a flesh being that was no longer God.

    Tell it like the scriptures tell it:  God, ALONE AND BY HIMSELF, created all things in heaven and earth.  He chose to do this THROUGH His Son, who has as one of his many titles, “The Word of God”.  (He also created many things THROUGH other vessels as well – such as our parents and grandparents, etc.)

    And no, we are not to “worship” Jesus as we worship his and our God, Jehovah.  We can bow to, pay homage, and do obeisance to Jesus.  But we don't worship the creations.

    And if the Word of God who rides the white horse in Rev 19 is not God Almighty Himself – then this Word has no choice but to BE one of the “ALL THINGS in heaven and earth” that were created BY God Almighty Himself. And that, my friend, makes him a creation.

    #359687
     942767 
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    Hi Wakeup:

    I have already given you scripture, rev 4:11, which plainly states who is the creator.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty

    #359692
     kerwin 
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    Quote (journey42 @ Oct. 17 2013,05:31)

    Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 17 2013,06:03)
    Journey,

    The “ministering” in “ministering spirits” tells us that  “spirits” as in they are “kind spirits” can apply and fits with the idea of what the angels action is in Hebrews 1:13-2:1.  

    Hebrews 1:13-2:1
    Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
    1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.

    Jesus assumed spirits cannot be touched nor can they eat both which angels are recording as doing and therefor cannot be spirits.  I took the liberty of pointing out there are other kinds of spirits, of which the Nordic elves manifests many of the same traits angels are said to.  Of course the elves being living creatures have bear flesh.


    Hi Kerwin

    If we can stick to one thing at a time that would be great.
    You said that no-where in scripture are angels referred to as spirits.
    I gave you the scripture that says otherwise.
    You can see for yourself now that you have missed this verse, therefore your view was distorted on this particular matter, but should be clarified now.

    We should accept when we are in error, then the truth can continue to grow and not be a stumbling block.


    Journey,

    I thought we were discussing the various definitions of spirit and how they are applied to angels.

    There is nowhere in scripture where angels are described as bodiless creatures who can neither eat or be touched. They are beings motivated by the essential principle of ministering. They, like the Nordic Elves, are a supernatural creature. They are a native created citizen of the Spiritual world.

    That is four different definitions of spirit.

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