February 11, 2016 at 10:18 am #808669kerwinParticipant
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By the time of Islam, much less the Ottoman Empire, the Roman with the Catholic Church established as its state religion and before its establishment had been exterminating the true church and any false they chose. It was the Catholic Church of the West that called the Crusades to aid the Eastern Roman Empire again the Islamic forces. Instead of returning the land they retook to the Roman Empire they greedily kept for themselves and then to top it off they attacked their own allies and took the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire. From what I can tell none of this was the intent of the Pope that called the war but it was individuals and groups out to get their own advantage. The fractured Roman Empire competed to take the capital back from the Crusaders and into this fracas the Ottoman Turk’s entered a claim on the throne. The reason being that a previous emperor gave one of his daughters in marriage to the leader of the Turks. The Turks were able to make good on their claim. In some Empires that would be merely a change in dynasty.
The dragon that gives the power is the same dragon that sits over the woman given birth and attempts to swallow he child. That sounds like the devil and perhaps the Roman Empire as the later put Jesus to death as the urging of unbelieving Jew. I know the Roman Empire did appoint the Catholic Church but I do not believe they appointed the Ottoman Empire though they attempted to assimilate the Ottoman Turks through marriage. The Ottoman Empire did claim the power of the Eastern Roman Empire and the Catholic Church assumed what they could of the power of the Western Roman Empire.
The Catholic Church is still around though it has received a mortal wound while the Ottoman is dead and in its body a true mixture of iron and clay rule. The same can be said of the Western Roman Empire except the Catholic Church still wields a greatly reduced amount of their power. Out of the ashes of the Western Roman Empire had risen the European Union with some of its members on the Great Sea. It has a relation with the Holy See, the last remnant of the Western Roman Empire. The Lowest point of the Holy See came when the Papal states were conquered in the mid-19th Century. They were able to recover from that deadly wound and have Vatican city returned to them. The Ottoman Empire has no territory though it rulers still survive.February 12, 2016 at 9:23 am #808715
kerwin, for many of the same reasons you give for the Vatican being the next head, they could also apply to the Ottoman Empire.
For me, I think both views have merit. I reserve my decision to decide on one particular view and remain open minded to them and other views too.February 12, 2016 at 9:34 am #808716
The Ottoman Empire did claim the power of the Eastern Roman Empire and the Catholic Church assumed what they could of the power of the Western Roman Empire.
After conquests in the Balkans by Murad I between 1362 and 1389, the Ottoman sultanate was transformed into a transcontinental empire and claimant to the caliphate. The Ottomans ended the Byzantine Empire with the 1453 conquest of Constantinople by Mehmed the Conqueror
– WikipediaFebruary 12, 2016 at 9:40 am #808717
The Catholic Church is still around though it has received a mortal wound while the Ottoman is dead and in its body a true mixture of iron and clay rule.
Emphasis mine. As for the possibility of the Ottoman Empire being described in these terms, that is not hard if you understand the word ‘mortal wound’. But judging from your statement I have quoted, it looks like you may not know the meaning, so I scraped this meaning from Google for you.
A mortal wound is a very severe and serious injury (almost always a form of penetration or laceration) whether accidental or inflicted intentionally (by either suicide or homicide), which leads directly to the death of the victim. Death need not be instantaneous, but follows soon after.
And who could argue that today there is a concerted effort in that region of the world to revive the dead Caliphate to its former glory. While it has been declared by one group and they are arguably struggling, it certainly doesn’t rule out the possibility that it could happen, especially when we understand that the last one rules for a short time if I remember rightly.January 23, 2017 at 3:25 pm #818537January 27, 2017 at 3:19 pm #818553AndrewADParticipant
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Wow it’s great to know there’s someone in the secular world/media that understands Islam and is willing to tell the truth about it. I’ve never listened to Bill Maher and halfway expected to see on the video that he was becoming a Muslim. There’s stuff on the net about Lindsey Lohan becoming one though I haven’t read it.
I really liked what Maher brought out to Rose about if they were beheading people at the Vatican in Rome what an uproar would be made of it.For whenever the cruelty and crimes of Islam are brought up so many immediately say Christianity is the same. But Maher plainly pointed out that’s not so with good examples. And the Muslim meeting on the video shows plainly what the majority of them believe and teach,and they were proud of it.April 18, 2017 at 12:29 pm #819174
Have you ever studied Islam, t8?
I was led to Islam, I studied Islam, and I learned heaps from Islam.
When I had to choose between Jesus as the Son of God or not, I chose against Islam.
So you decided between the Spirit of God and the Antichrist spirit. And yet, you argue for Islam still and give it validity.
Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.April 18, 2017 at 12:46 pm #819175
You are ignorant of Islam and what it stands for.
It is about implementing Sharia Law. If Muslims were successful in their aspirations for Islam, you would become part of the Infidel class. That means you pay more tax if you wish to remain Christian. But it could also mean having your head cut off. BTW, this has been going on in the Middle East for centuries to the point that Christians are almost extinct in the area where they were once abundant. Think about that for a moment. It would be tribulation for you. Unless of course you decide to deny Jesus Christ as the Lord and son of God and convert to Islam and accept Muhammad as your prophet.
By supporting Islam, you might as well be supporting Nazism. Same spirit. Different head of the same beast.
The Ottoman Empire like all empires preceding it from the Great Sea, persecuted the children of God and even devoured them. Yet you support them to a degree. I wonder of Jesus gives them the same support you do?April 18, 2017 at 1:05 pm #819176
t8, I just had a thought.
Why fear Islamic Immigration (the title of this thread). It means Christians can help them.
@miia, I just had a thought, like you.
Why fear Nazi Immigration into Europe. It means Christians can help them.
So you are basically saying that the Allies should have let Hitler and Co invade Europe so Christians could help them and because opposing Nazism or Naziphobia is bogotted. Surely you can still help an enemy without letting them invade your lands and destroy your freedom. Would you invite a murderer into your house to live with your kids for example? Yes because you can help him right. Or is it wise to help him in a different way. I say the latter.
Those who say Islamophobia is bigoted are ignorant of Islam’s asspirations and are not able to protect anyone. In fact they usually persecute those who know how to protect their families and nation. Foolish are those who invite an enemy into their house to devour them.April 18, 2017 at 8:59 pm #819177
I agree Andrew. It seems that people in the West are truly blind to the threat of Islam and Sharia.So it is unusual to see a mainstream media guy call it what it is.
Being blind to an enemy that is huge in number and getting bigger, believes it will convert the planet to Sharia, and has invaded Europe is foolish. Many Liberals in the West use the word ‘Islamophobia’ to shut down all debate on the subject. That is even more foolish. They are assisting them. HOw sorry they will be one day. Although it may be their children who are sorry.April 19, 2017 at 3:41 pm #819178LightenupParticipant
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This past fall I became involved in an ESL (English as a second language) ministry with my church. I have refugees from Sudan, Iraq, Peru, Panama, New Delhi, and Columbia in my class. I have grown very fond of them. A young mother of one of the families from Iraq told me that her uncle and two cousins were shot and killed by ISIS. The Uncle was working in his holy book store when it happened. He was a Muslim. They all have their stories of seeking escape from the radicals. They are feeling safe in America but also very lonely for their families that they left behind. I meet with them about once a week normally. The last time I met with them I explained the history of the Passover to them to prepare them for the message of the cross and resurrection that they were about to hear from one of our missions pastors. The Muslims knew a lot about the history but of course are in denial about who the son was of Abraham that received the covenant promise and whose family line the Messiah would descend from. After class, I had one of the Muslims stay after and ask me several questions about what Christians believe. I see this as a great mission field.
My city also had a terrorist shoot up and kill some soldiers. The terrorist was a radical Muslim. He also died during the confrontation. He and his family were part of the community here for years. My friend knew him and her son used to wrestle him during wrestling matches. You just never really know who is going to be a bad guy. That kid had recently spent the year in Afghanistan before he went on a terror shooting spree.
We are not to fear those who can merely kill the body. We are to fear the ONE who can destroy both the body and the soul in hell.
I’m not in favor of just having a wide open door to the Muslims/refugees seeking to come to America. We need a strong vetting process. We also need to help take out the enemy that is causing them to want to leave their country. I believe that they would prefer to live in their country in safety. They really have a lot of guts to come to a country and not know the language well or the customs. I can’t imagine being in their shoes. Many of them have given up decent careers to take whatever job they can find. A lot of them are in a chicken factory butchering one chicken after another…all day long. It stinks, they don’t like it. They long to be able to do a better job. Until their English improves, there is not much for them to choose from.
Matt 10:28 “Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
April 21, 2017 at 12:25 am #819192miiaParticipant
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If Muslims were successful in their aspirations for Islam, you would become part of the Infidel class. That means you pay more tax if you wish to remain Christian. But it could also mean having your head cut off. BTW, this has been going on in the Middle East for centuries to the point that Christians are almost extinct in the area where they were once abundant. Think about that for a moment. It would be tribulation for you. Unless of course you decide to deny Jesus Christ as the Lord and son of God and convert to Islam and accept Muhammad as your prophet.
I don’t think you understand.
To follow Christ… we must have love for the lost.
Pharisees are a different matter.
hating on a religion that is different than yours… is not productive for you.
I don’t hate Muslims… I don’t hate gays either. As someone said “If you are nice to me, I will be nice to you, it’s as simple as that.” Unquote, and even if you are not nice to me I will still be nice to you, as far as my personality type goes… and if I am killed handing a Muslims a bible by ISIS, then I die with love for my God, and I hope that person I was handing the bible too, saw that, and will take it. And my faith makes me know that Muslim will. Why do you fear what can kill the body?April 21, 2017 at 12:32 am #819193miiaParticipant
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That is good Lightenup.April 29, 2017 at 12:11 pm #819214
Good post LU.
I am not disagreeing with you regarding reaching out to them. Of course, this is very important. Every soul is precious in God’s sight.
I think invasion of one culture into another is a different point entirely. While that may not be happening in USA, (but could depending on politics), it is happening in Europe. It is estimated that large swathes of Europe could be dominated by Islam in 2050. That could be the death of many European cultures, which is what happened in the Middle East when Christians were slaughtered to the point of extinction. While some of us will go through Tribulation, I am not so sure that politics that encourages it is wise. For example, there are not many Christians left in the Middle East to preach to the lost. I hope Europe doesn’t go that way, but it might and we do know that dark times are in the future. Scripture does say that people can repent and God can heal the land, but politics that leads to genocide is how can I put it, what you sow you shall reap.I think that many in the West are for Islam only because Islam is an enemy of Christian and Jew, and so they have that same hate even though they make for odd bedfellows.April 29, 2017 at 12:22 pm #819215
Miia, we fight not against flesh and blood, but principalities and powers in high places. There are probably principalities that rule over the Muslim world that lead to many souls being taught that Jesus is NOT the son of God, but a prophet of Islam. While you may be okay with that, I am not. This religion is Antichrist as proven by their confession and principle that they deny the Father and the Son. Their God is not a Father and has not a son. The description of that particular god matches the god of this world and I am not a supporter of that god. That god hates man who was made in God’s image. I believe in the light and the truth and Islam classes me as an infidel for this. I am not into appeasement either. It is the light or the darkness. Some cultures are more swayed toward the Antichrist spirit than others.
We love our enemies for sure, but I wouldn’t be foolish and invite a murderer (whom I should love) into my house with my kids. I could better help such a person without endangering my family. Leaders of nations should protect their populace. It is one of the primary purposes of a leader. It is reckless to allow invasion and naive to think that you can allow invasion and then convert them.
Many do not understand what is going on because they are not wired for protection. They are naive and do not realise that their freedom came from huge sacrifice from others. They are not aware that nations and even the world can change very fast. It only takes one generation to fall asleep to end your way of life forever. Of course we are talking about politics here. Faith is about acting in the right way given the circumstances. Being foolish and inviting evil will test our faith, but I do not think such people who invite tribulation are wise.
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