Islamic Immigration

This topic contains 222 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of miia miia 5 days, 9 hours ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #808245
    Profile photo of t8 t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 839
    • Total replies 17,275

    According to the prophecy of Daniel there will be only five empires from the time of Nebuchadnezzar to the Messianic Age.
    1) The golden head = Neo-Babylonian Empire
    2) The silver chest and arms = Mede-Persian Empire
    3) The bronze thighs and waist = Greek Empire and their offspring
    4) The iron legs = The Roman Empire both East and West though East is more appropriate.
    5) The feet of iron mixed with clay = The independent states that are now there.

    For this prophecy to be true the the Ottoman Empire either belongs to the iron legs or the feet of iron mixed with clay. The first Ottoman Emperor claimed his Empire was the Roman and according to prophecy the iron and clay could not be either domestic or foreign powers so I agree with him.

    The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. “The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction.…

    Notice that the one that is must be Rome. Yet, one is yet to come. Then there is even an eighth and is of the seven. And it is the eighth that goes into destruction. And it is the Beast that was and was not which is also the eighth.  While the other empires were succeeded, the Ottoman Empire actually died after WWII. Perhaps it is coming back.

    Daniel isn’t wrong of course but Revelation is more focused on the end of time than Daniel is who has much to say about the future, but which is now our past. Revelation has more detail I think for the very end, so I tend to use that more when talking about the end.

    #808246
    Profile photo of t8 t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 839
    • Total replies 17,275

    Unless the beast encroaches in the territory covered in the prophesy then there is no room for it in the area as the kingdoms in that area are covered. Unless it has some unity with the Roman Empire Isis will fail in its endeavors to unify the kingdoms of that area. The Secularist that are also attempting to unify the area will also fail though they may be forge a weak confederacy.

    Kerwin, do you think that the new empire just appears and whammo it takes over the old one. Or perhaps it takes time for them to grow including even slow encroachment. But the old is overtaken when the capital city or place of rule is overtaken and the old rule ends.

    #808254
    Profile photo of kerwin kerwin 
    Blocked
    • Topics started 144
    • Total replies 17,364

    t8,

    I know that Persia-Media overtook Neo-Babylon in a night and that Rome gradually swallowed Greece. Greece, actually Macedonia, took Peria-Media fairly quickly with Alexander the Great at the helm. The Ottoman Empire fell at the end of World WarII. There is not gap between them but there is an overlap, even if it is very small.

    What I know is that the Byzantine Empire Lost Constantinople to the Latins then retook it and lost it again to the Turks. The ruler of the Turks claimed he had a right to the throne because he was married to a Byzantine princess. None of this is nothing different than was fairly common during the Roman Empire.

    Up until its end Istanbul was known as Constantinople as well as Istanbul in the Empire’s official documents. In addition the Ottoman Empire in power to long to be a flash in the pan not worth mentioning in the prophecy of the Five Empires.

    #808258
    Profile photo of kerwin kerwin 
    Blocked
    • Topics started 144
    • Total replies 17,364

    t8,

    Notice that the one that is must be Rome. Yet, one is yet to come. Then there is even an eighth and is of the seven. And it is the eighth that goes into destruction. And it is the Beast that was and was not which is also the eighth. While the other empires were succeeded, the Ottoman Empire actually died after WWII. Perhaps it is coming back.

    That would contradict the prophecy of the five empires and Scripture is not broken.

    The Spanish Empire was also on the Mediterranean as was Carthage but the later fell before Revelations was written. There is other Empires like the Italian Empire and the Portuguese Empire. The Italian could be seen as a revival of the Roman Empire as it had its capital in Rome. Italy is now a member if the European Union but the layer’s more important city is in France. There is also the Holy Roman Empire that arose and fell twice but I am not sure either time it was near the Great Sea.

    There is also the Ethiopian Empire which fell and then rose again. There is plenty of room for the beast around the Great Sea even if the area covered by the Empire of Babylon and it succeeding Empires is omitted. The Roman Empire owned and controlled the Great Sea so I cannot see where it would be omitted from the prophecy.

    #808260
    Profile photo of kerwin kerwin 
    Blocked
    • Topics started 144
    • Total replies 17,364

    t8,

    The Seventh may be the European Union though it is an extremely loose confederacy right now.

    #808364
    Profile photo of t8 t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 839
    • Total replies 17,275

    t8,

    I know that Persia-Media overtook Neo-Babylon in a night and that Rome gradually swallowed Greece. Greece, actually Macedonia, took Peria-Media fairly quickly with Alexander the Great at the helm. The Ottoman Empire fell at the end of World WarII. There is not gap between them but there is an overlap, even if it is very small.

    Overlaps are fine. There are no strict rules here. Basically each empire becomes the dominant power of the region.

    #808366
    Profile photo of t8 t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 839
    • Total replies 17,275

    t8,

    The Seventh may be the European Union though it is an extremely loose confederacy right now.

    Could be. One way it could happen is with Islamic immigration and the rise of terror. This could force Europe to invest in futuristic surveillance technology and the opposition to all religions. If a leader rose up within that political system, it could well play out as we read in scripture.

    #808369
    Profile photo of kerwin kerwin 
    Blocked
    • Topics started 144
    • Total replies 17,364

    t8,

    Some places in England are already rather big-brother like. They have a lot less thoughts about privacy that the U.S. does though the governments manage to find ways around most objections when they want. It is hard to tell because governments are in the mind to claim they respect privacy when they pick and what and how they actually protect it.

    So what you say is a very real possibility and parts of the EU are on the Mediterranean Sea. I do not see anything that organized on the African coast but it has happened in the past with Carthage.

    #808375
    Profile photo of t8 t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 839
    • Total replies 17,275

    That would contradict the prophecy of the five empires and Scripture is not broken.

    Revelation

    1. Egypt – 3100 to ? (Genesis 12:10)
    2. Assyria – 2500 BC to 605 BC (Genesis 2:14)

    Daniel

    1. Babylon – 612 – 539 BC (Daniel 1:1)
    2. Medo-Persia – 539 – 331 BC (Daniel 5:28)
    3. Greecia – 331 – 168 BC (Daniel 10:20)
    4. Rome – 168-476 AD / 1453 AD – inc Byzantine period (Daniel 9:26 & Romans 1-7)
    5. Ottoman? – 1453 – 1924 AD (Future empire when Revelation was written, but historical empire today)
    6. ??? Is of the seventh or seven
    Nebuchadnezzar Statue

    Nebuchadnezzar Statue

    As for the five kings/empires versus seven, that can be explained by the two empires predating the time of Daniel (Egypt & Assyria) which would not have been of significant at that time as God gave a vision of the future only, while Revelation appears to give us the full picture. Notice that Rome is the fourth in Daniel’s vision while in Revelation it has to be the sixth, as the seventh is yet to come, and one is.

    Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. “The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction.

    Daniel’s empires are five empires represented by four metals with the fifth as being a mixture. It appears that each metal is an empire with Babylon the head of gold, Media Persia as silver, Greece as bronze, and Rome as two legs of iron. The fifth is a mix of iron (Rome) and clay (perhaps a weaker people).

    And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay.

    Could this be a reference to the Ottoman Empire which superseded Rome? Obviously, Romans would have continued to live in the region, but came under the rule of the Ottomans (Arabs).  Perhaps they intermarried, but they didn’t truly mix. Read the same verse in the NASB.

    “And in that you saw the iron mixed with common clay, they will combine with one another in the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, even as iron does not combine with pottery.

    If the clay is Ottoman and the iron Rome, thus iron first, then clay, then perhaps the mixture. As the feet are mentioned so are the 10 toes, so there could well be a clue there as it speaks of two parts to the feet. 10 toes could even represent the 10 European nations that formed after the fall of Western Rome. The feet could speak of the Ottoman Empire and the toes the nations of Western Europe.

    #808450
    Profile photo of miia miia 
    Participant
    • Topics started 21
    • Total replies 1,287

    Ed, regarding your post on p.13: idolism is everywhere, and is not just within one religion. Open your eyes!

    Just sitting in front of the television is more an image of the (beast) than a stone in a box is!

    You don’t seem to understand that God judges the heart and mind.

    You are free to believe what you want.

     

     

    #808460
    Profile photo of kerwin kerwin 
    Blocked
    • Topics started 144
    • Total replies 17,364

    T8,

    As for the five kings/empires versus seven, that can be explained by the two empires predating the time of Daniel (Egypt & Assyria) which would not have been of significant at that time as God gave a vision of the future only, while Revelation appears to give us the full picture.

    The only way that would work is if the Ottoman Empire was the Last Empire, which is the one of clay mixed with iron.

    About the Last Kingdom it is written:

    Daniel 2:42-44American Standard Version (ASV)

    42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
    43 And whereas thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men; but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron doth not mingle with clay.

    That describes what brought the Ottoman Empire down and and how it is today.

    #808512
    Profile photo of t8 t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 839
    • Total replies 17,275

    The only way that would work is if the Ottoman Empire was the Last Empire, which is the one of clay mixed with iron.

    Well yeah, that is what has been said all along.

    As mentioned in the opening post, the idea with this view is that the Ottoman Empire is indeed the seventh and then a deadly wound kills the Beast for a time, and an Islamic Empire comes back for a short time as the eighth king which is of the seventh or seven and leads a great persecution of Christians and Jews. However, with Islamic immigration growing Europe which has a low native birth rate, even Europe could become part of a Muslim Empire as the population becomes more Islamic.

    The Beast that was, is not, and yet to come. It seems that the kings from Egypt to Rome were in succession, But the Ottoman Empire was the next empire (seventh) and lasted 600 or so years before coming to an end. At this point the Beast actually died, just after WWI. One hundred or so years later, it comes back to life for a short time.

    Oddly enough, if this is true, then Australia and New Zealand were part of the forces that nailed this Beast as the ANZACs were part of a contingent of nations that fought them in WWI. I heard that Britain chose the Australians to fight in this region because they would be use to the hot climate. The Ottomans had fought with Russia also.

    #808583
    Profile photo of t8 t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 839
    • Total replies 17,275

    This video gives a good description of the statue and the beasts of Daniel. While the conclusion is different to an Islamic Empire (perhaps) it helps to visualise it.

    #808584
    Profile photo of kerwin kerwin 
    Blocked
    • Topics started 144
    • Total replies 17,364

    T8,

    From what I have read the wound does not actually kill the beast itself but only one of its heads. That head is healed. That beast sounds more like the Catholic church which which was given authority by the Roman Empire and warred against the saints, even defeating them. There is also another beasts that has horns like a lamb and speaks like a lamb and that may well be the one that is now forming or has already formed.

    The Ottoman Empire does not really fit it because they are to late on the scene to oppress the saints. The current situation is a desolation and it has been that way for centuries, possibly over a 1500 years. I have read of hints at the presence of saints. They are almost a ghost in the history books. Where they have gone I do not know. I assume the woman is still in her place.

    #808664
    Profile photo of t8 t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 839
    • Total replies 17,275

    I am not sure if you are paying attention, but the Ottoman Empire overtook the Eastern Roman Empire and if it is part of this beast, it would fit as the seventh. It then dies, and then becomes the eighth with the rise of Islam to form a caliphate and spread sharia law and Islamic time through a leader such as their Mahdi. Also, the Ottoman Empire was Islamic and it turned the region into an Islamic region which is now the dominant religion. A religion that clearly denies the Father and the Son making it antichrist by the biblical defintion. And whose adherents bow down and prostrate themselves to. Further, who continue their quest of cruelty toward the Christian and Jew with radicals beheading many as infidels. Think for a minute about the violence and persecution involved to turn a region full of Christians into a region where Christians are almost extinct.

    Of course the Vatican  too is  a contender because it died due to Napoleon I think, but it came back to life.  However, if this view were true, then who is the woman clothed in purple and crimson. Those colours are familiar in the RCC and I wonder if the Vatican is more suited to the role of Mystery Babylon making the world drunk and riding on the back of the beast. The woman looks very religious in nature.

    I remain open to these possibilities and others. As for the point you made about the head being wounded, that is true. But I do not argue against that. But only to say that the kingdoms were in succession, but that the Ottoman Empire (and the Vatican for that matter) ended that succession, and thus the Beast actually is no more once the seventh head suffers its mortal wound, but then it comes back to life, bringing the Beast back.

    I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast; they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?”…

    and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.
    “The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction.

    So by the description of a particular head dying means that the Beast “is not”, but is also an eighth and is of the seven/seventh/one of the seven. I take it that the “is not” is the death of the beast because it is not present anymore. But the Beast comes back when one of the seven or the seventh comes back to life meaning the deadly wound is healed.

     

     

Viewing 15 posts - 196 through 210 (of 223 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

© 1999 - 2017 Heaven Net

or

Log in with your credentials

or    

Forgot your details?

or

Create Account