Isaiah 41:18

This topic contains 183 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  t8 3 months ago.

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  • #805612
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,

    If that is the case is that what happened with the prophets or not?

    #805613
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,

    Isaiah obviously spoke for God.

    But you think the relationship between Jesus and the Father was much less direct?

    #805614
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,

    But that is not what Jesus Christ said.

    He claimed a very direct relationship with the Spirit.

    #805751
     t8 
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    There seems to be a manuscript difference and different translation have have different orders of words so this is not a great proof passage.

    So you choose the AKJV because that agrees with your theoology and ignore all other translations and research?

    Jude 1:25
    to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

    Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

    25. To the only … God our Saviour — The oldest manuscripts add, “through Jesus Christ our Lord.” The transcribers, fancying that “Saviour” applied to Christ alone, omitted the words. The sense is, To the only God (the Father) who is our Saviour through (that is, by the mediation of) Jesus Christ our Lord.

    power—authority: legitimate power. The oldest manuscripts and Vulgate, after “power,” have “before all the age,” that is, before all time as to the past: “and now,” as to the present; “and to all the ages,” that is, for ever, as to the time to come.

     

    #805752
     t8 
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    Hi t8,

    So you say the words were not from the Spirit but the man?

    You are double minded it seems.

    Not double minded Nick, rather you have misconstrued what I said. You should have thought the latter yourself and read my post again before saying I was double minded.

    Jesus certainly spoke, but he chose to speak what the Father speaks. He was not a robot shell that the Father took control of with a PS3 controller.

    No, Jesus submitted himself to God and so should we. Like us, Jesus had the ability to do his own will if he desired, but he always without exception submitted/aligned his will with the Fathers.

    #805759
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,

    So he was a prophet unlike to Isaiah who was not a mouthpiece for God but he was sometimes inspired in his speech?

    No not so.

    #805769
     t8 
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    Nick, you misunderstand what it means to be inspired. It does not mean automatic writing, or taking control of someone’s voice box and making a broadcast. It is about submitting to God, something we should also do.

    Jesus spoke only what HE heard his Father speaking. And did only what he saw his Father doing. Obviously you need to understand what this truly means. Jesus would like all people go to the toilet. So he didn’t do that because he saw the Father doing so. Jesus acted, spoke, and did what the Father wanted him to.

    He had a choice, and his choice was the Father’s will. “Not my will but thine will” explains it easily enough. Notice there was still a ‘my’ and a ‘thy’, but that ‘my’ did what ‘thy’ wanted.

    #805785
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,

    Then why do you not believe his words?

     

    #805995
     t8 
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    Which words are you referring to?

    Before Abraham, I am?

    #805999
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,

    No.

    You would understand that if you believed Jn 12.49

    For I have not spoken of myself…

    #806011
     t8 
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    Jesus said, “not my will but your will”.

    If that was God speaking through him in the manner by which I think you are implying, then did the Father do Jesus will?

    But if you understand what I am saying, then it means that Jesus did the Father’s will and spoke, but only what he heard the Father say.

    So who is it then that doesn’t understand John 12:49
    For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

    You see Nick. I believe that Jesus spoke that which he heard the Father say. He didn’t speak for himself or ever go outside the will of God in what he said.

    This is what I believe and have told you as much.

    Why do you not understand? Why accuse me of error? How can I help unblock that which is getting in the way of you understanding this?

    #806020
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,

    The Word spoke through Jesus Christ.

    So at times did the spirit of truth from the Father.

    Jesus did not speak of his own initiative or from his own spirit.

     

    Or do you believe otherwise.?

    #806024
     kerwin 
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    t8,

    Which words are you referring to?

    Before Abraham, I am?

    That is one of the worst translations as it drops some words.

    genesthai is the word it drops and by itself can mean quite a bit of thing. Since it is aorist it can translate in different English tenses which make its translation dependent on context.

    ego emi is somewhat better but the problem with correctly determining the English tense that is correct is difficult.

    There is also context implied words that do not actually exist.

    This is probably better wording though I question it as the tenses seem to be mixed in poor English structure that I think is because of Trinitarian bias. I favor that because the base word ginomai is sometimes translated made and I suspicion born is a biased as well as loose translation though it is also used quite often.

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am.

    #806027
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,

    The Word was in the beginning with God.

    Jesus was yet to be conceived

    #806029
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,

    When Jesus Christ told men to eat his flesh and drink his blood did you not recognise it was the Word speaking?

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