December 4, 2015 at 8:31 pm #805612
If that is the case is that what happened with the prophets or not?December 4, 2015 at 9:17 pm #805613
Isaiah obviously spoke for God.
But you think the relationship between Jesus and the Father was much less direct?December 4, 2015 at 10:14 pm #805614
But that is not what Jesus Christ said.
He claimed a very direct relationship with the Spirit.December 7, 2015 at 12:32 pm #805751
There seems to be a manuscript difference and different translation have have different orders of words so this is not a great proof passage.
So you choose the AKJV because that agrees with your theoology and ignore all other translations and research?
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
25. To the only … God our Saviour — The oldest manuscripts add, “through Jesus Christ our Lord.” The transcribers, fancying that “Saviour” applied to Christ alone, omitted the words. The sense is, To the only God (the Father) who is our Saviour through (that is, by the mediation of) Jesus Christ our Lord.
power—authority: legitimate power. The oldest manuscripts and Vulgate, after “power,” have “before all the age,” that is, before all time as to the past: “and now,” as to the present; “and to all the ages,” that is, for ever, as to the time to come.December 7, 2015 at 12:36 pm #805752
So you say the words were not from the Spirit but the man?
You are double minded it seems.
Not double minded Nick, rather you have misconstrued what I said. You should have thought the latter yourself and read my post again before saying I was double minded.
Jesus certainly spoke, but he chose to speak what the Father speaks. He was not a robot shell that the Father took control of with a PS3 controller.
No, Jesus submitted himself to God and so should we. Like us, Jesus had the ability to do his own will if he desired, but he always without exception submitted/aligned his will with the Fathers.December 7, 2015 at 12:57 pm #805759
So he was a prophet unlike to Isaiah who was not a mouthpiece for God but he was sometimes inspired in his speech?
No not so.December 7, 2015 at 1:24 pm #805769
Nick, you misunderstand what it means to be inspired. It does not mean automatic writing, or taking control of someone’s voice box and making a broadcast. It is about submitting to God, something we should also do.
Jesus spoke only what HE heard his Father speaking. And did only what he saw his Father doing. Obviously you need to understand what this truly means. Jesus would like all people go to the toilet. So he didn’t do that because he saw the Father doing so. Jesus acted, spoke, and did what the Father wanted him to.
He had a choice, and his choice was the Father’s will. “Not my will but thine will” explains it easily enough. Notice there was still a ‘my’ and a ‘thy’, but that ‘my’ did what ‘thy’ wanted.December 7, 2015 at 4:10 pm #805785
Then why do you not believe his words?December 11, 2015 at 10:55 am #805995
Which words are you referring to?
Before Abraham, I am?December 11, 2015 at 11:23 am #805999
You would understand that if you believed Jn 12.49
For I have not spoken of myself…December 11, 2015 at 1:17 pm #806011
Jesus said, “not my will but your will”.
If that was God speaking through him in the manner by which I think you are implying, then did the Father do Jesus will?
But if you understand what I am saying, then it means that Jesus did the Father’s will and spoke, but only what he heard the Father say.
So who is it then that doesn’t understand John 12:49
For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.
You see Nick. I believe that Jesus spoke that which he heard the Father say. He didn’t speak for himself or ever go outside the will of God in what he said.
This is what I believe and have told you as much.
Why do you not understand? Why accuse me of error? How can I help unblock that which is getting in the way of you understanding this?December 11, 2015 at 3:15 pm #806020
The Word spoke through Jesus Christ.
So at times did the spirit of truth from the Father.
Jesus did not speak of his own initiative or from his own spirit.
Or do you believe otherwise.?December 11, 2015 at 4:23 pm #806024kerwinParticipant
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Which words are you referring to?
Before Abraham, I am?
That is one of the worst translations as it drops some words.
genesthai is the word it drops and by itself can mean quite a bit of thing. Since it is aorist it can translate in different English tenses which make its translation dependent on context.
ego emi is somewhat better but the problem with correctly determining the English tense that is correct is difficult.
There is also context implied words that do not actually exist.
This is probably better wording though I question it as the tenses seem to be mixed in poor English structure that I think is because of Trinitarian bias. I favor that because the base word ginomai is sometimes translated made and I suspicion born is a biased as well as loose translation though it is also used quite often.
Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am.December 11, 2015 at 4:52 pm #806027
The Word was in the beginning with God.
Jesus was yet to be conceivedDecember 11, 2015 at 5:09 pm #806029
When Jesus Christ told men to eat his flesh and drink his blood did you not recognise it was the Word speaking?
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