Is Jesus the Logos?

This topic contains 1,635 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by  GeneBalthrop 5 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #802816
     Ed J 
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    There is more counter evidence against your claim, do you want to see it? “Yes” or “No” ?

    Of course I am happy to see any evidence. But to be honest I have no reason to have any faith in your evidence given the history of evidence you have provided for other claims you have made here. I am not trying to be nasty but just being honest. I do not like wasting my time with wild goose chases and I fear that this will happen again. I gave my reasons with scripture and those scriptures were but the tip of the iceberg. I doubt you can challenge all of them as they are written, but feel free to do so.

    Hi T8,

    I will use your term for simplicity. Here is where the goose chase begins…

    1 Corinthians 8:6
    yet there is for us only one God, the Father, who is the Creator of all things and for whom we live; and there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things were created and through whom we live.

    We start the chase with the word “through”
    The word “through” means: “because of” NOT ‘by means of’
    (and a stated before: “because of is in reference to. his death on the cross”)

    here again is ‘your claim’
    ‘he is the Word but took on another form, that of flesh when he came to earth’ – T8

    You and Pierre BOTH are taking the word “through” to mean ‘by means of’,
    as in Jesus Christ helping participate in creation (which would support ‘your claim’),

    rather than through’s actual meaning “because of” (as in Jesus being the goal of creation)
    which would not support ‘your claim’. (Let me know if you do not understand this distinction)

    So for purposes of clarity, I must ask…

    Q. Do you believe Jesus helped God with creation? (<– Please answer)

    And Pierre will you too please answer this question as well.

    _______________
    God bless
    Ed J

    #802817
     Ed J 
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    EDJ’S QUESTION (ref. to Jer.18:5) TO YOU IS well put i believe scripture says God soke in times past through the prophets, it does not say JESUS SPOKE TO THEM.

    Thank you Gene!

    #802818
     Ed J 
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    “Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater”.
    You cannot write off everything a group says simply because they are wrong in a certain thing. Everything needs to be tested, not written off.

    Hi T8,

    Thank you for believing that way about me as well.

    #802819
     Ed J 
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    My view is that while it is certainly possible that Jesus (before the flesh) came to Jeremiah, we must remember that logos is also still part of God and always will be. God did not cast aside logos from himself, nor split it off from him when he begat another.

    Likewise, truth is part of God, and Jesus while not being God, said that he was the truth and him being the truth is not to the detriment of God as he remains true as ever.

    Clearly, one is an attribute of God, and the other a person other than God, namely the son of God.

    Likewise for wisdom.

    Hi T8,

    Thank you for giving us the reason of why you reject Jer.18:5 as counter-evidence to ‘your claim’ 🙂

    #802820
     Ed J 
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    EDJ

    (B)Or before anything was created God decided Jesus would die on a cross and because of that thought he decided to create all things billions of eons ago, and two thousand years ago,

    (1)you seem not to understand how heaven works ,(2)yet in scriptures it is explained ,did isaac knew that he would be the sacrifice ?

    (3)why would God allow Jesus his only begotten son go through this ? (4)and at what point in time did really Jesus knew that was the purpose of him being send to earth ?

    Hi Pierre,

    1) Thank you!
    2) At least by the time Abraham began to bind him (Gen.22:9), maybe even by verse 8.
    3) Yes God did allow Jesus (his only begotten son) to go through the crucifixion.
    4) Is this question even relevant? if you believe that it is, please state why.

    _______________
    God bless
    Ed J

    #802821
     Ed J 
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    t8

    Jesus was the truth personified why ?

    Because man was created in God’s image.

    #802822
     Ed J 
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    Edj

    (1)I still wait for your prove where is it ?

    (2)BUT WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT “THE WORD’OF WHICH JOHN SPEEK ABOUT HIS JESUS CHRIST = THE WORD OF GOD (3)so it seem you are not understanding scriptures properly at all

    Hi Pierre,

    1) Proof of what? Do you mean why I reject T8’s claim?
    2) It seems what you understand is what religion has taught.
    3) Are you looking in a mirror as you are typing out these words?

    #802823
     terraricca 
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    Edj

    Q. Do you believe Jesus helped God during creation? …

    answer me this first ;since you are a creation of God did your parents help in creating you ? yes or no

    and you never have given any thing that prove otherwise that Jesus his the WORD OF GOD

    Jer 18:5 Then the WORD of the LORD came to me: what is it you do not understand in this scripture ?

    this is the second time you are telling me this ;;;2) It seems what you understand is what religion has taught.;;;; what are your reason to give that opinion of yours in this way ,I am not part of any religion for the past 45 years ?

    #802824
     terraricca 
    Participant
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    Edj

    t8
    Jesus was the truth personified why ?
    your answer Edj;;Because man was created in God’s image.

    and you are wrong this is not why he was the truth of God his father personified ;

    it was for ALL HE DID, WAS TO FULFIL ALL THE WORDS HIS FATHER THROUGH HIM IN THE PAST REVEALED TO THE PROPHETS ;Lk 24:25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!
    Lk 24:26 Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?”
    Lk 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

    #802825
     Ed J 
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    (1)It seems what you understand is what religion has taught.;;;; what are your reason to give that opinion of yours in this way ,(2)I am not part of any religion for the past 45 years ?

    Hi Pierre,

    1) Because religion has taught you that Jesus is (according to them) “The Word”.

    2) If someone quits the JW organization 45 years prior, yet still believes
    Jesus is Michael the Archangel, does that at all change the fact that
    they learned that Jesus is Michael the Archangel from them, NO!

    Think about it

    #802826
     Ed J 
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    • Topics started 155
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    Edj

    Q. Do you believe Jesus helped God with creation?

    answer me this first ;since you are a creation of God
    did your parents help in creating you ? yes or no

    Hi Pierre,

    Are we playing the “answer me first” game? OK then “me first”
    Before I answer your question – you answer mine – then
    you’ll be able to answer my original question, right?

    Did Mary help in creating Jesus? “Yes” or “No”?

    #802827
     Ed J 
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    t8
    Jesus was the truth personified why ?
    your answer Edj;;Because man was created in God’s image.

    and you are wrong this is not why he was the truth of God his father personified ;

    Hi Pierre,

    Here’s proof that what I said is true…

    “Christ, who is the image of God” (2Cor.4:4)

    Please give me a reason or two why you disagree.

    #802828
     Ed J 
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    PROPHETS ;Lk 24:25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!
    Lk 24:26 Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?”
    Lk 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

    Hi Pierre,

    And what exactly is quoting unrelated verses
    out of corrupted bibles suppose to prove anyways?

    NWT: In the beginning was the Word,+ and the Word was with God,+ and the Word was a god

    Is “The Word” ‘a god’? …NO!

    #802832
     terraricca 
    Participant
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    Edj

    Hi Pierre,

    Here’s proof that what I said is true…

    “Christ, who is the image of God” (2Cor.4:4)

    Please give me a reason or two why you disagree.

    you are playing I answered this question in the second quote in this topic

    and you make me a liar ; Col1;15;21 tells you that Jesus his the image of God ;so why do you say to me that I do not believe scriptures ,are confused ? or try to confuse me ?

    and how in the world is your answer prove to deny what I told you ,for your explanation is wrong ,

    #802833
     terraricca 
    Participant
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    Edj

    Hi Pierre,

    And what exactly is quoting unrelated verses
    out of corrupted bibles suppose to prove anyways?

    NWT: In the beginning was the Word,+ and the Word was with God,+ and the Word was a god

    Is “The Word” ‘a god’? …NO!

    I don’t care for the NWT of the jw

    Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    Jn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
    Jn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    Jn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth

    Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
    Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible

    Phil 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
    Phil 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
    Phil 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

    so you don’t believe those scriptures ,you only believe what you inventing to be true ? make your own religion and seek for suckers ?

    KJV;Lk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
    Lk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
    Lk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
    Lk 24:28 And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further.

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