Is Hell eternal?

This topic contains 416 replies, has 23 voices, and was last updated by  t8 4 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #777284
     Anastas
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    Do not get me wrong I do not believe man has eternal life by default. A man will live as long as God wishes him to. If Adam and Eve did not sin they would surely be living to this day. I understand the logic you are using from the language that was spoken. “Eternal life” is forever. If one suffers for eternity then they are living forever in “eternal life”. But following the Lord promises eternal life so then those who did not can’t have life where they go. The same points are used and are understood very well. However, they are not scriptural.

    How can we determine what is justice? How can we say to God that eternal punishment is too harsh a penalty? Can a wicked man know true justice or the ways of God? No, because God’s ways are far above man’s ways.

    Matt 25:41-46
    Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry, and ye did not give me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink; I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; naked, and ye clothed me not; sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not unto one of these least, ye did it not unto me. And these shall go away into ETERNAL PUNISHMENT: but the righteous into eternal life.

    The same place the devil goes so will the wicked for eternal punishment. Now you may say that eternal punishment is simply being dead forever but scripture says differently.

    Mark 9:47-48
    And if thine eye cause thee to stumble, cast it out: it is good for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell; where their WORM DIETH NOT, and the fire is not quenched.

    Daniel 12:1-2
    And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince who standeth for the children of thy people; and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and EVERLASTING CONTEMPT.

    Can someone who is simply destroyed and gone feel shame? Express contempt? This is written alongside the term “everlasting life.” To our definition of life both are still alive but it is unwise to always use simple definitions to contain the meanings of scriptures. Life in this context is not exactly life how we may understand it. We know this because “Their worm dieth not”. Whether they are dying continuously forever or whatever, we know that they won’t die.

    Revelations 14:9-11
    And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, If any man worshippeth the beast and his image, and receiveth a mark on his forehead, or upon his hand, he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and THE SMOKE OF THEIR TORMENT GOETH UP FOREVER AND EVER; AND THEY HAVE NO REST DAY OR NIGHT, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name.

    Now if these men will be condemned for eternal torment, why would not the evil men of all the generations beforehand? Does the world not belong to Satan? 2Corinthians 4:4 Do they not follow him and serve him? I will tell you that they will indeed punish in the same way for they have already received the mark.

    I will not continue debating this for it serves no profit. I have given scripture and can assure you there are many more verses that support eternal punishment for those who do not accept Christ.

    My only wish is to simply appeal to the Spirit in you. The natural “feeling” of the scriptures points to an eternal punishment for the unrighteous. Reading the scriptures naturally will place this feeling in you. It is only when you don’t like what it “feels” like when you start looking for what you want to hear.

    #777285
     Admin 
    Keymaster
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    A couple of things Anastas.

    “ETERNAL PUNISHMENT: but the righteous into eternal life.”

    Surely these are opposites. The opposite of life is death and we are talking about new life (second life) and second death.

    Also you mention a place where the worm dieth not. You understand the word ‘death’ here, but when the wicked perish in the Second Death, it is somehow different?

    I would like to suggest that the punishment is eternal, but that doesn’t necessary equate to being alive to experience that punishment.

    I believe that it was God’s mercy that he spared us from existing forever by default. This allowed God to make it a choice for us and of course the righteous would make that right choice and the wicked would not. Thus sparing unnecessary eternal torture which any righteous person would not be uncaring about.

    Just something to think about.

    #777286
     John
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    Dear Leo S.
    You spent years reading the Bible and thinking about its issues. And you have made a good headway. Yet there is more to learn, to receive, to arrive at a more accurate knowledge, faith, at an absolute certainty when it comes to the key issues…,
    I wish I could face you guys (I am thinking of T8 and Anastas, who are very visible) face to face to share so many things, to learn .. because to accomplish it via the written word is hardly possible. (And yes, I want to seek out those lead by His Spirit to possibly join together to face the Last Days ahead. The likelihood that anyone is close is next to none. But I am in Lousville, KY. How about you?)
    Now, at least 2 comments to the above exchanges (see also my last post 2 or 3 days ago, re Eternal Hell?)

    1. The English language is often a problem besides the difficulty of Biblical passages. The “eternal” punishment, if the latter coincides with a ‘destruction’, or annihilation, is a one-time event that stays (or the results of which stay) with the punished forever and not a continuous process of “keeping on punishing”. In other words, it will never be reversed. The condition of ‘being destroyed’, in fact, “not being at all” will persist unlike our first death in the flesh which leaves the issue still semi-open for the Last Judgment.

    2. God loves us, even “perfectly”, you say? Well, where in the Bible does He say He loves Leo S? or John or T8? The Bible says God loved David … but us? .. To love us He would first have to know us. And He does not. We just want to believe, He does, pretend (wishful thinking). However, truly, if He knew us, He would not like us, much less love us, no less the way we pretend it to be the case. Alas. And that is why He does not even want to know us. I would not want to, if I were Him. Wit hfew exdeptions, I would not want to know myself, if I were Him.
    And then, we ourselves cannot hurt somebody we love. How could He if He loved us? Is God any worse than us?
    God (of course by and through His Son)generally knows only those He writes down in His Book of Life. Those who follow and belong to His Son. All others are dead to Him. (And yes, that is most of us whether we want it or not.) But to love somebody, God would have to first know him more intimitely via more frequent encounters and closer knowledge, relationship, communication, and association, same as it is the case among us humans. …
    Now, John 3:16 does say “God so loved the World …” But are you or me the “world”? No. So let us be careful. We can be easily rather presumptuous saying God loves US…(meaning, of course, Not “Them”)! Meanwhile, not all of us even know the true and living God, in fact few of us do, regardless what we care to think or profess. And those known to God are even fewer in numbers. How can God love me, when He Has no knowledge of my existence, of my name, of my anything? (Oh no, God does not know “Everything”, although, the Bible does say, ‘God knows all things’, are we perhaps “things” … ? etc. And He does not need to know and does not want to know everything. Why should He? So the proper interpretation and understanding are crucial.)
    A propos, we ‘know’ God more but which of us can say he truly loves Him? Why, for us it is all but impossible to love somebody we cannot see, hear, speak to, or touch.
    (Sorry, but I can’t help being very sober when it comes to God.) jn

    #777287
     John
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    Correct.

    Read my other recent comments. There is no Hell, never was. It is just a wrong translation from Greek / Hebrew. Those in “hell” are in fact in ‘hades'(greek)or ‘sheol'(hebrew) which is an abstract place (in the center of the Earth? however, spirits ‘dwell’ or sojurn out of our time and our physical, geographic space … so only God knows) of the dead spirits. And it is very calm there, no cold or heat, not wet or dry … nothing but death. And if they suffered, they would not know of it, being dead. That is what death means. See ecclesiastes … jn

    #777288
     G. Michael Mayhew 
    Member
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    What about these verses? How do you explain these? This is words that Jesus spoke, and it seems very clear, and was not covered in the text above…

    This is referring to the Parable of the Talents:

    Mat 25:30 And cast ye out the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.

    Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.

    I need an explanation for these verses, because these contradict everything else.

    #777289
     Richard Beaulac
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    To who it may concern:

    I have tried for a week and with many times to have my name on your mailing list, and each time, failed. Can you assist me>?

    Thank you!

    Richard Beaulac
    March 1, 2014
    Philippines

    #777290
     Admin 
    Keymaster
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    What mailing list? We do not have one. You can register for the site and follow any topic when comments are made.

    http://heavennet.net/register/

    #777291
     Admin 
    Keymaster
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    Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.

    If I have life and the reward of God is eternal life, then that means I will live eternally which by implication means that by default man does not live eternally, rather it is a gift.

    It would stand to reason then that if sinners are punished by not inheriting eternal life, then what they get is not eternal life.

    So non-eternal life is the same as death, destruction, or to perish. And to be in that state or non-state forever. In other words, no chance of life later on. No recreation. Decision is final.

    It is written that we should not fear God because man can kill the body and God can kill both the body and the soul. Thus if we understand that death of our body is destruction of our body by perishing in the ground, then why not the soul of man too.

    One could argue that the body is raised even for the wicked and they will stand before the righteous judge and give an account. However, the Second Death is aptly named and we know it is final, (there is no Third Death). In other words, both the body and soul of a man will not be raised to life ever again. It is final destruction, eternal destruction.

    #777292
     Admin 
    Keymaster
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    Mat 25:30 And cast ye out the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.

    If a man is thrown into outer darkness, then where does it say that they will be alive forever. Even a natural death by fire would for example lead to gnashing of death because of the pain of dying. But that doesn’t imply either that you feel that pain for eternity. If it did, then that would really mean eternal life in fire.

    Further, I was myself given a vision of Outer Darkness and felt what it was like. It is here if you are interested.

    http://www.heavennet.net/writings/vision-hell/

    #777293
     Anonymous
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    hi

    that is a question that puzzled me for a long time ;

    if one can go into eternal LIFE then some one can also go to eternal PUNISHMENT and live WHERE THE MAIN ACTIONS SEAMS TO BE ;WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH,being in the dark could mean far from God’s light and never be able to reach it just like Cain was send to the land of Nod,

    I do understand that first we die for Adam sin ,but with Christ we are saved by him of that sin but after that we die for our own sins ,the grace is given once not twice,to my understanding anyway

    #777294
     marvin goodwin
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    Drar Sir why would want to teach people a lie…hell is an eternal place and whomever goes there will suffer forever…the Bible says it is a place where their is wheeping and gnashing of teeth and a place where the worm which represents the soul will not die and the bible also says that the rich man lifted up his eyes being tormented in the flames and this was not a pariable as some teach…so this tells us that you will have an eternal body in hell just as you will have an eternal glorified body in heaven…when God creates a person they will exist forever, a person can never be completely destroyed. When you study the scripture you must study all of it not just part of it to get the right answer.

    #777295
     Admin 
    Keymaster
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    Revelation 20:14
    And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

    This is why.

    #777296
     Admin 
    Keymaster
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    Read this very carefully:

    Genesis 3
    22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

    Notice the part where God spared man from living forever as a sinner. In other words, by default we do not have eternal life.

    John 3
    15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
    16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

    Look at the above verse. Who has eternal life? All as you imply or those who believe?

    #777297
     Knolly
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    A simple word search on ‘eternal’ would turn up the NT verses you seem to have left out.

    There’s quite a few that seem to imply that the human spirit is eternal but in one of two places for ever.

    How about including them in your new testament study?

    #777298
     Admin 
    Keymaster
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    The human soul is not eternal but God’s spirit that gives the soul life is. Eternal life is given to the righteous as a gift and not to the wicked. The spirit comes from God and goes back to him in the case of those who do not inherit eternal life. We read in the NT that we should fear not man who can destroy the body, but God who can destroy both body and soul in Hell. Further, we read way back in Genesis that God delivered mankind from existing forever as a sinner.

    Genesis 3:22
    And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

    Whatever your doctrine, it must agree with the full counsel of scripture.

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