April 11, 2018 at 1:49 am #822163
Nick…..Yes there has been a lot of pagan platonic teachings that has infected the church, the word Hell simply means the grave. Not some place where people are still alive as pagans believed. When a person dies they are dead until the resurection, just as Jesus said he was, dead, and now alive for evermore, after his resurection, the same applies to us.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……geneApril 11, 2018 at 7:13 am #822168
When Jesus died he was yet alive in the Spirit and he visited the spirits in prison.1peter3.
And of course Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all who lived in the Spirit are yet alive.
Surely you know this if you too have been given of the Spirit of life?April 11, 2018 at 8:49 am #822169
Nick…. What i have been given is the “spirit of truth” which is from the FATHER, AND IF HIM WHO RAISED JESUS FROM THE GRAVE ABIDES IN ME, HE THAT RASIED JESUS FROM THE DEAD SHALL ALSO RAISE MY “MORTAL” (DEAD) BODY FROM THE GRAVE.
The dead “souls” spirits have returned to him who gave it, there bodies went back to the earth, they are dead souls and have not been resurected yet, the only one that has been resurected and came back to life from the grave is Jesus, all the rest in the grave are dead, but their spirits rest in the boosm of the Father. They are no longer living “souls”. Don’t you believe Jesus when he said he was “dead” and “now” is alive. Dead means not alive Nick it means “dead” . You present him as if he never really died, but scripture and Jesus says he did “die”. And Jesus also said after he was resurected he was “not” a spirit. Because spirits do not have flesh and bone bodies as he had and has, spirits are what is in bodies. Why can’t you understand that brother?
Peace and love to you and yours. ……geneApril 11, 2018 at 9:09 am #822170
Do you not agree with scripture when it speaks of those in Christ who sleep in death?
Some were wakened as with Moses and Elijah on the mountain with the Lord.
Then there was Nathan who was wakened and spoke with king Saul?
Then Jesus Christ appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus.
Do you not believe Jesus visited the spirits in prison?
The first death for those in Christ is an illusion.April 14, 2018 at 5:51 pm #822266t8Participant
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Clearly, the human soul is not eternal. Thus man can perish and be no more and the spirit can return to God who gave it.
The Spirit is what gives life. If God takes it back, then what makes a person alive?April 14, 2018 at 5:55 pm #822269
before the rope breaks you have to be filled with the waters of eternal life.
Then rivers of life can flow from you.April 14, 2018 at 6:37 pm #822274
Those given a share of the Spirit are yet alive,
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob the Lord Jesus offered as examplesApril 16, 2018 at 12:39 pm #822294
Nick….I do believe Jesus, and he said he was “dead”, does dead mean we are still alive? I alway though a man is either dead or alive, and i don’t think being dead means you are still alive, or maybe Jesus lied when he said he was dead but i don’t think so. Scripture says when a man dies his thoughts parish, so if his thoughts parish how does he think being dead.
I know about the witch of Endor Nick, but i am not sure what part God had in all that, same with Moses and Elisha on the mount of transfiguration. All thing are possible with God, but other scriptures say when a person is dead he really is dead. I know when our bodies decompose in those graves we are no longer a “living soul” , but i also believe the spirit goes back to him who gave it. And i do believe that spirit is an “it” not a living soul, when it goes back to the Father.
I also know As you said Jesus said God is not the God of the dead but the living, but that can be taken in several ways, like perhaps it means that God has preserved us somehow for a regeneration of spirit and flesh to be a resurected soul again. Perhaps our death is better looked as a sleep, because of God the Fathers promise of a resurection, so that all of our hope for any future life again, is in him.
I don’t think we are transfered from one state of life to another state of life at death, as you might Nick, because if that were true why even have a resurection, that will witness the redemption of our BODIES.
Anyway i put “all” my hopes and trust in the hands of God the Father Nick.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………geneApril 16, 2018 at 1:31 pm #822297
Jonah died and went to the pit.
He yet lives in the Spirit of life.April 16, 2018 at 2:17 pm #822298
Nick….Yes Jonah, was carried by the great fish God had prepared to a pit but was he dead? Who knows. He did remain there for three days and three nights, no scripture says he was dead though. So it would only be an assumption to say he was actually dead, right Nick?
Jesus was just using the analogy of his time in the grave “dead” before he would be resurected back to life, Nick ì just believe what Jesus said,he said he was “dead” and that to me really means he was “dead” not still alive as you seem to assume brother.
Nick sceipture say every hair of our head is numbered right?, so why number them if we would not need them again, i believe our complete DNA is recorded for future use. There would be no need to record it if it was not going to be used again would there?
Anyway we will all know someday right brother?
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….geneApril 16, 2018 at 2:29 pm #822299
Jonah was thrown overboard and swallowed by the large fish.
Three days later he was vomited up onto land by the fish.
So his body never left the fish for three days
He was without oxygen for 3 days
Meanwhile he says that he cried of from the depth of Sheol.
Water encompassed him to the point of death.
Then his life was brought up from the pit.
So it seems his soul departed from his body in the fish and was rejoined to it before he was vomited up. Jesus used this as a simile to his own death and resurrection so he must want us to understand it.April 17, 2018 at 2:27 am #822300
Nick… No scripture says Jesus’ “soul” left his body, that is a speculation brother on your part, not scripturally written. There is not a scripture that says a soul ever leaves a body, because a soul is a body with the breath of life “in” it, according to scriptures. Is it not prophesied in scripture, that God would not leave Jesus’ soul in the grave to see coruption? The spirit does not corrupt in the grave, it goes back to him who gave it, Jesus said unto the Father, “i commend my “spirit” into they hands”, but the flesh body does corrupt the grave Nick and God the Father did not let Jesus’ body see corruption, he resurected it before it did. Why?, because Jesus did no sin, therefore his body was not subject to coruption even though he did die, but not for his sins but ours, so God did not allow his body to see corruption in the grave. He was resurected after the three days and nights time in the grave past, as a complete living “soul”. Just like he was before he died.
Nick no living soul is with out a body of some kind, that is why after we die, and our bodies do corupt in the grave, then we must be resurected with a new “body” before we can become a living “soul” again. Read the valley of dried bones, those who have seen coruption of there bodies must recieve new “bodies” again in order to become living souls again. The new bodies will be spiritually generated, from God the Father, as Adam and Jesus’ was, with that same DNA. All of our DNA is recorded, so we can be regenerated Nick. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours. ……geneApril 17, 2018 at 6:57 am #822302
It sounds like your dogmas talking. No mention of DNA in scripture but your idea has become fact to you?
Did Jesus, alive in the Spirit, visit the spirits in prison while his body was in the grave?
Peter said so.April 17, 2018 at 8:09 am #822303
“Because you will not abandon my soul to Hades
NOR allow your holy one to undergo decay.
…he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ
that he was neither abandoned to Hades,
NOR did his flesh undergo decay.”
2 separate issues – the fate of the body and of the soul.
The salvation of the soul is our hope
1 Peter 1.8
..obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.April 17, 2018 at 9:21 am #822304
Speaking of the old and the new bodies
2 Cor 5.1
For we know that if the earthly tent, which is our house, is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven, inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked. For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life. Now He Who has prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave us the Spirit as a pledge.
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