In the Beginning

This topic contains 3,160 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by  NickHassan 2 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #321916
     2besee 
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    God made all things through his Spirit.

    Once you make 'John 1:1' a verse about two GODS then you start drifting off into either Trinitariansism; Binitarianism; or Arianism, but is either correct?

    We have Trinitarianism saying that there are two Gods (two Gods which combine to be one) and then you have the same with Binitarianism – except that there are two Gods which combine into one, and then you have the Arianists who say that there are 'big gods and little gods', though both are the 'God type'.

    To start at the beginning, I believe that the correct understand of 'John 1:1' needs to be made.

    This is a critical verse.

    There is only one God.

    #321918
     2besee 
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    Oops, Trinitanarianism THREE Gods! Error!

    #321920
     Ed J 
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    Quote (2besee @ Nov. 26 2012,07:01)
    Mike, I haven't read your above posts yet but i have been thinking.

    To say that in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was A God does Not. Seem. Right.

    In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God seems right.

    Genesis 1:1

    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth… “The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters.”

    John 1:1

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God; all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.”


    Hi 2Besee,

    Have you ever heard this joke?   >>>
    What's the only thing more powerful than the word of God?      …the traditions of men.  (See Col.2:22)

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #321921
     2besee 
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    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 26 2012,04:49)

    Quote (2besee @ Nov. 25 2012,03:48)
    The world was made through Jesus and Jesus had glory with God before the world was made, and so it seems that God's own thoughts or reason had worked through this vessel (the word) in the past before this vessel was made flesh.


    You're almost there, 2B.  Now just accept that this “vessel”, the Word, WAS already Jesus, the Son of God.  Here's why:

    John 1:3
    Through [the Word] all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

    Colossians 1:16
    For through [the Son of God] all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created through him and for him.

    1 Corinthians 8:6
    ……..and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

    Here you have three different scriptures telling us who God made all things through.  One scripture calls him “the Word”.  One calls him “the Son of God”.  And one calls him “Lord Jesus Christ”.  But the same thing is said about all “three” of these people:  God created all things through him.

    To me, this is strong evidence that the Word is the Son of God, who is our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Yes, no disagreement there.

    #321922
     2besee 
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    So then Jesus – also known as the word of God, also known as the Son, also known as the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit?

    #321923
     2besee 
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    Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 26 2012,09:23)
    Hi 2Besee,

    Have you ever heard this joke?   >>>
    What's the only thing more powerful than the word of God?      …the traditions of men.  (See Col.2:22)

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    Hi Ed true.

    #321926
     2besee 
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    Quote Mike:

    “Kathi, why would you attempt to muddy up these important grammatical FACTS I'm trying to show 2besee, when you and I both agree that John 1:1 speaks of TWO gods, one of whom was with the other in the beginning?   ???

    So you are a polytheist?

    #321928
     2besee 
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    How could “someone” be with someone, and also BE that someone?

    1Cor:2:10,
    “God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.
    For what person knows a man's thoughts except the spirit of the man which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. “

    #321938
     2besee 
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    Hi Mike, I am going to “attack” your post on page three bit by bit, tomorrow (when I have some more time) but for now I just have one more post to do:

    Richard said:

    “How about God? Can he speak a lie? Then  if He can  only speak truth, He speaks of His own and is the father of truth.
    Why is it so hard to believe that God's Word is God Himself?”

    Wakeup gave the scripture:

    “Isaiah 44:8   Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. IS THERE A GOD BESIDE ME? yea, THERE IS NO GOD; I KNOW NOT ANY.”

    And as EdJ said:

    “What's the only thing more powerful than the word of God?      …the traditions of men.  (See Col.2:22)”

    And Scriptures says:

    [5] I AM THE LORD AND THERE IS NO OTHER,
    BESIDES ME THERE IS NO GOD;
    I gird you, though you do not know me,
    [6] THAT MEN MAY KNOW,
    FROM THE RISING OF THE SUN FROM THE WEST,
    THAT THERE IS NONE BESIDES ME;
    I AM THE LORD, AND THERE SI NO OTHER.

    [7] I FORM THE LIGHT AND CREATE DARKNESS,
    I MAKE WEAL AND CREATE WOE,
    I AM THE LORD, WHO DO ALL THESE THINGS.
    [8] “Shower, O heavens, from above,
    and let the skies rain down righteousness;
    let the earth open, that salvation may sprout forth,
    and let it cause righteousness to spring up also;
    I the LORD have created it.
    [9] “Woe to him who strives with his Maker,
    an earthen vessel with the potter!
    Does the clay say to him who fashions it, `What are you making'?
    or `Your work has no handles'?
    [10] Woe to him who says to a father, `What are you begetting?'
    or to a woman, `With what are you in travail?'”
    [11] Thus says the LORD,
    the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker:
    “Will you question me about my children,
    or command me concerning the work of my hands?
    [12] I MADE THE EARTH,
    AND CREATED MAN UPON IT;
    IT WAS MY HANDS THAT STRETCHED OUT THE HEAVENS,
    AND I COMMANDED ALL THEIR HOST.
    [13] I have aroused him in righteousness,
    and I will make straight all his ways;
    he shall build my city
    and set my exiles free,
    not for price or reward,”
    says the LORD of hosts.
    [14] Thus says the LORD:
    “The wealth of Egypt and the merchandise of Ethiopia,
    and the Sabe'ans, men of stature,
    shall come over to you and be yours,
    they shall follow you;
    they shall come over in chains and bow down to you.
    They will make supplication to you, saying:
    `GOD IS WITH YOU ONLY, AND THERE IS NO OTHER,
    NO GOD BESIDES HIM'”
    [15] Truly, thou art a God who hidest thyself,
    O God of Israel, the Savior.
    [16] All of them are put to shame and confounded,
    the makers of idols go in confusion together.
    [17] But Israel is saved by the LORD
    with everlasting salvation;
    you shall not be put to shame or confounded
    to all eternity.
    [18] FOR THUS SAYS THE LORD,
    WHO CREATED THE HEAVENS
    (HE IS GOD!),
    WHO FORMED THE EARTH AND MADE IT
    (he established it;
    he did not create it a chaos,
    he formed it to be inhabited!):
    “I AM THE LORD, AND THERE IS NO OTHER.
    [19] I did not speak in secret,
    in a land of darkness;
    I did not say to the offspring of Jacob,
    `Seek me in chaos.'
    I THE LORD SPEAK THE TRUTH,
    I DECLARE WHAT SI RIGHT.
    [20] “Assemble yourselves and come,
    draw near together,
    you survivors of the nations!
    They have no knowledge
    who carry about their wooden idols,
    and keep on praying to a god
    that cannot save.
    [21] DECLARE AND PRESENT YOUR CASE;
    LET THE COUNSEL TOGETHER!
    WHO TOLD THIS LONG AGO?
    WHO DECLARED IT OF OLD?
    WAS IT NOT I, THE LORD?
    AND THERE IS NO OTHER GOD BESIDES ME,
    A RIGHTEOUS GOD AND A SAVIOUR;
    THERE IS NONE BESIDES ME.
    [22] “TURN TO ME AND BE SAVE,
    ALL THE ENDS OF THE EARTH!
    FOR I AM GOD, AND THERE SI NO OTHER.
    [23]  By myself I have sworn,
    from my mouth has gone forth in righteousness
    a word that shall not return:
    `To me every knee shall bow,
    every tongue shall swear.'
    [24] “Only in the LORD, it shall be said of me,
    are righteousness and strength;
    to him shall come and be ashamed,
    all who were incensed against him.
    [25] In the LORD all the offspring of Israel
    shall triumph and glory.”

    As you can see there is only one God who created the world, not 'two' or 'three'.

    Get to your post tomorrow:)

    #321955
     terraricca 
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    2b

    Genesis 1:1

    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth… “The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters.”

    can you see that there are two beguinings ???

    #321964
     2besee 
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    Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 26 2012,11:26)
    2b

    Genesis 1:1

    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth… “The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters.”

    can you see that there are two beguinings ???

    Terraricca, do you mean two creations?

    #321977
     Richtuner 
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    2besee quoted me with,

    Quote
    Richard said:

    “How about God? Can he speak a lie? Then if He can only speak truth, He speaks of His own and is the father of truth.
    Why is it so hard to believe that God's Word is God Himself?”

    How about using all what I said, not just a portion of it?

    So I will say again, after I said it again and again,

    NO, I DO NOT BELIEVE THERE ARE 3 GODS. THE BIBLE, LIKE POSTED ABOVE STATES THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD.

    If people would read what I said, they might not agree with me, but they would see that I don't believe in the 3 Gods.

    mikeboll64,

    Quote
    In which of the above translations do you suppose God was “controlling His own words”?

    PEOPLE PLEASE DON'T GET CAUGHT UP WITH THAT FACT THAT YOU CAN UNDERSTAND GOD AND WHO HE IS WITH YOUR MIND.
    WE WILL NEVER WRAP OUR MINDS AROUND GOD WITHOUT GOD REVILING THINGS TO US BY HIS SPIRIT.

    We live in our 3 dimensional world and don't understand eternity much the things of the laws of the universe. We found a new something they call dark energy and dark matter. They don't know much about it, but they can tell it's there. Don't you think that God knows all about it?

    There are untold things we don't know and should not attack those thing until we dig deeper into it and see that it needs to be investigated before dismissing or attacking it.

    Question: If God can speak a word and it will produce or create a living plant, animal or something else, just what kind of Words are those?
    His Words are life and living and creative. And His Words are a part of Him.
    Every thing God has created, He has spoken it into existence.

    If you don't understand it, try to find out what this means before you all go off on someone and labeling them and trying to correct them about something else other than what is said.

    You are limiting yourselves and God.

    Take a hard look at these scriptures:
    Job 42:1 Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
    Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
    Job 42:3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
    Job 42:4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
    Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
    Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

    #321983
     2besee 
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    Quote (Richtuner @ Nov. 26 2012,12:20)
    2besee quoted me with,

    Quote
    Richard said:

    “How about God? Can he speak a lie? Then  if He can  only speak truth, He speaks of His own and is the father of truth.
    Why is it so hard to believe that God's Word is God Himself?”

    How about using all what I said, not just a portion of it?

    So I will say again, after I said it again and again,

    NO, I DO NOT BELIEVE THERE ARE 3 GODS. THE BIBLE, LIKE POSTED ABOVE STATES THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD.

    If people would read what I said, they might not agree with me, but they would see that I don't believe in the 3 Gods.

    Richard, I never said that you believed in three Gods – I was quoting a part of your post as a TRUTH, i was quoting what you said about God speaking only the truth, and then I went on to quote Wakeup's verse and also the chapter from Isaiah, as truths.

    So that is a misunderstanding.

    Also, I have not read any of your posts on what you do believe, regarding this topic.

    So, Rich, what is your belief, briefly? (so that I know!)

    #321985
     Spock 
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    The phrase “in the beginning” is a poetic, philosophical concession. God had no beginning, neither did The Son or the Creator Son, Jesus. They are ancestral to, but eternal-with, God the Father.

    Colter

    #321986
     Ed J 
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    Hi Rich,

    Wise advice, but I doubt there will be any takers.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

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