How the Lake of Fire and the Second Death Brings Salvation

This topic contains 110 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  NickHassan 1 month, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #833600
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Anthony,

    So you are declaring an amnesty and telling men that all are forgiven without repentance and baptism into Jesus?

    Does this apply also to the devil and the false prophet who are in the lake of fire?

     

    #833602
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Anthony,

    You seem to understand scripture that Nick doesn’t.

    #833603
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Nick,

    You: Yes we have seen such folly offered in the past.
    A hopeful dream for some.

    Me: Nope,

    Thanks for the scripture to back up your thoughts. You have only stated what you believe, not any proof that the scriptures I have stated and carefully analyzed are inter connected  and prove a point. Go over the scriptures in the whole context of the posts I had laid down and show me why they are incorrect. Please do not use a hundred different posts to scatter your thoughts. It is folly to those that do not understand.

    1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

     

    #833604
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Nick,

    You:
    Chosenone tried to sell us this snake oil.
    A few tweaks of truth here and there and it starts to almost seem reasonable.
    But it is just another pernicious heresy.

    Me: Still no analysis and a coherent argument with a bunch of scriptures to prove you are right—just your one liners as always that always prove nothing. Go over the verses together with the thoughts behind them to show that you are right and I am wrong. At least snake oil you can see.

    #833605
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Nick:

    You: Remember that ALL does not always mean everyone.
    For example it sometimes means the REMNANT. All who have survived.
    And bear in mind that the words of the apostles are written only to the saved, and do not apply to the world.

    Me: This shows your ignorance and blindness. The words of the apostles are written for the saved now and the saved later as I have and will show you. The small harvest is now, the great harvest later as I have shown you.

    Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

    Comment: It is God that chooses those whom he calls and when to follow him.. It is not anyone who wishes to choose to follow God.  It is God that chooses. If you believe otherwise, you are vain and self deceitful.

    Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

    2 Tim 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

    Comment: It is those that God has opened  their minds  to the truth that truly seeks God. If your eyes and ears have been closed by God, you are not really seeking the truth and don’t understand, no matter how much you read and research.

    Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

    Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. 33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! 34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

    Comment: God wants only a small group to be saved now. Why does God do it this way?

    Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

    Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

    1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

    Comment: Not all are chosen by God in this generation to be kings and Priests with the Messiah.   Not all can.

    #833609
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Nick:

    Romans 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

    Comment:  It is God that is responsible that the hearts of men are harden and do no believe.  He uses the devil to accomplish his purposes.  For God creates the evil, but in the end, it is all good.

    Ezk 37:9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live. 10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army (number). 11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. 12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

    Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

    Habakkuk 2:14 (NASB) “For the earth will be filled With the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, As the waters cover the sea.

    Eph 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is ( will be 3687. onomazó ) be named,

    Me: All will be saved. We haven’t even gotten to the lake of fire and the second death yet.

    John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw (1670) all men unto me.

    Comment: Click on the link below. You will see that 1670 means primary drag and secondarily draw.
    https://biblehub.com/lexicon/john/12-32.htm

    Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father

    #833610
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    Test all things and hold fast to what is good.

    You offer strange teachings.

     

    #833613
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Nick:

    You,

    Test all things and hold fast to what is good.
    You offer strange teachings.

    Where is you testing.  I have shown you mine.  You have shown me only your one liners that prove nothing.

    Luke: 4:23 And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself:

    Just because they seem strange to you, does not mean they are not true.  I have given many scriptures to provide the cohesiveness of what I want to prove.  All you can say is that they are strange.  Well they are also strange to the world that do not understand them.  Christendom is filled with false beliefs that originate from what they believe and is not based on their understanding of the bible.  So your slander does not take away from that.

    2 Peter 3: 15  And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

    Me: Not all scripture is simple to understand like you have stated.  I need to get to the meat of the matter and not go around and around with you in your pettiness.  You have contributed nothing.

    #833619
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi All,

     

    https://www.godfire.net/eby/lake.html

    From the Author: In my study of the lake that burns with fire and brimstone I was very much helped and impressed by the understanding given by Charles Pridgeon and I would like to quote from his scholarly work on the subject of BRIMSTONE. He says: “The Lake of Fire and Brimstone signifies a fire burning with brimstone; the word ‘brimstone’ or sulphur defines the character of the fire. The Greek word THEION translated ‘brimstone’ is exactly the same word THEION which means ‘divine.’ Sulphur was sacred to the deity among the ancient Greeks; and was used to fumigate, to purify, and to cleanse and consecrate to the deity; for this purpose they burned it in their incense. In Homer’s Iliad (16:228), one is spoken of as purifying a goblet with fire and brimstone. The verb derived from THEION is THEIOO, which means to hallow, to make divine, or to dedicate to a god (See Liddell and Scott Greek-English Lexicon, 1897 Edition). To any Greek, or any trained in the Greek language, a ‘lake of fire and brimstone’ would mean a ‘lake of divine purification.’ The idea of judgment need not be excluded. Divine purification and divine consecration are the plain meaning in ancient Greek. In the ordinary explanation, this fundamental meaning of the word is entirely left out, and nothing but eternal torment is associated with it” -end quote.
    I realize that the above thoughts define the subject very briefly, but let us summarize the meanings thus: BURN means combustion; to change the form of. FIRE means heat and light. BRIMSTONE means divine. Putting these three together can we not see that the lake burning with fire and brimstone is, actually, DIVINE HEAT AND LIGHT PRODUCING A CHANGE! Is such a process eternal?
    Me:

    Heb 12:9 For our God is a consuming fire.

    Me; God is the great purifying fire.

    Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

    Matt 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world (age), neither in the world (age) to come.

    http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Eternal-Life

    https://gods-kingdom-ministries.net/teachings/books/the-judgments-of-the-divine-law/chapter-5-the-eonian-judgment/

    Matt 3:11 says that the Pharisees who had blasphemed the holy spirit (Matt 12:31) will be baptized with the holy spirit. But they would also be baptized with fire (which is a trail). They will not be forgiven in this age nor the next in the millennium, but they will be forgiven.

    Rev 12:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

    1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

    Comment: Fire is our trials and tribulations to cleanest us—to make us spiritually white.

    #833620
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi All,

    1 Cor 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. 14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

    This corresponds with:

    Luke 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading 16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. 17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. 18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. 19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities. 20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin: 21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow. 22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sown Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?

    Comment: Notice that the unprofitable saint will still be saved, but not at the return of Christ but in the lake of fire. He will suffer the loss of being a king and priest at the return of Christ

    #833622
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi All,

    From the author:
    The fire is never sent to destroy the PERSON, but to purge out all that hinders and separates him from his God, to consume the pride, arrogance, hostility, defiance, and rebellion of the flesh, the carnal mind, that He might then be wooed and drawn by the Holy Spirit unto the Father of Spirits and live.

    Me:

    Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.  

    Luke 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

    Me: Do not turn your back on God once you start the journey. It is a fearful trail that will get the job done.

     

    Comment:  Do not turn your back on God.

    #833623
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi All,

    From the author:
    The fire is never sent to destroy the PERSON, but to purge out all that hinders and separates him from his God, to consume the pride, arrogance, hostility, defiance, and rebellion of the flesh, the carnal mind, that He might then be wooed and drawn by the Holy Spirit unto the Father of Spirits and live.

    Me: We die to self by the fire or trails of God.

    Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

    Luke 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

    Me: Do not turn your back on God once you start the journey. It is a fearful trail that will get the job done.

     

    From the author: 

    And in Rev. 20:14 God tells us exactly what the SECOND DEATH is. “And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH.” Now let me make this a little plainer. Definitions of men can be given backward. For instance, the definition, “An island is a tract of land completely surrounded by water,” can be given thus: “A tract of land completely surrounded by water is an island.” This is but another way of stating the same fact. It does not, in any way, change the meaning. Now let us try this on the definition of the second death. The Bible states it thus: “Death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. THIS IS the second death.” Now let us turn this around for clarity. “The second death IS death and hell cast into the lake of fire.” Therefore we have exactly the same meaning either way it is stated. What is the second death? It is the first death and hell cast into the lake of fire! This fact is very IMPORTANT. The second death is not merely the lake of fire. The second death is not men being tortured for ever in the lake of fire. The Holy Spirit has made it very simple and plain. The second death is the first death and hell CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. That is the Holy Spirit’s definition, not mine.

    Me:

    1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 25 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

    Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

    Comment: One of the former things is death.

    #833624
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi All,

    Matt 10:28 (NASB)
    “Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    Me: In the end, there will be one spirit, the holy spirit and we will have bodies liken unto the Messiah’s.

     

    #833625
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    1 Cor 1.1

    ’From Paul, who was called by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus, and from our brother Sosthenes-

    TO THE CHURCH OF GOD, which is in Corinth, TO ALL WHO ARE CALLED TO BE GOD’S HOLY PEOPLE,

    who belong to Him In union with Christ Jesus, together with all people everywhere who worship our Lord Jesus Christ,

    their Lord and ours:’

    This is FOOD FOR THE FAMILY OF GOD, but you are dare to offer it to the world.?

    #833627
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    Yes fear the God Who is able to destroy body and soul in Gehenna.

    When it comes to judgement the lake of Fire is for destruction, not cleansing.

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