Giving Heed to Doctrines of Devils

This topic contains 149 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  GeneBalthrop 2 months ago.

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  • #825838
     Jodi 
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    Nick and Anthony your understanding of 1 timothy 4 and 1 Corinthians 10, if I have it correctly, is that the doctrines of devils/demons/unclean spirits, are doctrines that came to man by the influence of crafty devils/demons/unclean spirits. I would like you to read these passages again carefully and consider what I say about them.

    1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;…7 But refuse profane and old wives’ fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.

    Is this scripture not saying that men would depart from the faith by believing in the fables and lies about demons that were invented by humans?

    I understand the scripture to say that when it came to unclean spirits people created lies and fables about what they are and what they do, and those beliefs caused them to depart from the faith.

    What I see that the scriptures are teaching us is that there are real unclean spirits no doubt, but that there also exists unclean spirits that were nothing but pure fables.

    There are real unclean spirits that cause people to be blind, mute, insane etc.., but there were also fables about unclean spirits that we are told have no power.

    The below scripture mentions demons that were the WORKS of man’s own hands, thus really referring to them as fables, and it says along with the idols they could not hear nor walk, which is obvious if they were indeed made by the works of man’s own hands.

    Revelation 9: 20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so as not to worship demons, and the idols of gold and of silver and of brass and of stone and of wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk;

    In the below scripture the Gentiles and their demons are mentioned. We are told in the OT that there would be false beliefs from the heathens and God warned Israel not to mingle with heathens and acquire their beliefs. We are also told, just like the verses above that the heathen’s unclean spirits, idols, and gods, were not real, they had NO powers.

    God did not want His people to be led astray and believe in the FAKE stuff the Gentiles did. The demons in the below scripture are fake. This is a warning not to believe in lies. This is NOT a warning not to allow yourself to be seduced by real demons, and then perform deeds according to their influences.

    1 Corinthians 10: 20 No, but I say that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers in demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons.

    Nick and Anthony please think on the above. I hope that you can recognize with these specific scriptures we are in fact being warned not to believe in FAKE unclean spirits, and these passages are not to be confused at all with the passages that speak of REAL unclean spirits.  

     

     

    #825840
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    The human vessel is very weak and is used by ‘sin in the flesh ‘to propagate such lies and fables.

    Man, in his vanity, is unaware of being manipulated to teach these doctrines of demons.

    In his natural state man has no inkling about Satan and the domain of darkness.

     

    Only the light of the Spirit can expose the darkness for what it is-rebellion against God.

     

    #825841
     Jodi 
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    If we can move forward in our discussions recognizing that there are true unclean spirits and that scripture also discusses fake unclean spirits that have no power, that would be good!

    I’d like to start out using the below scripture again, so that we can recognize that what is fake is not just the heathen creations made out of wood, brass, and stone, but as well their beliefs in gods and their unclean spirits are likewise simply inventions of man.

    Revelation 9: 20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so as not to worship demons, and the idols of gold and of silver and of brass and of stone and of wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk;

    There were/are various beliefs when it comes to unclean spirits and God warned not to mingle with heathens and acquire their beliefs, because what they believed in was fake.

    Ezekiel 13: 3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!

    Jeremiah 23: 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. 17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you…..24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD. 25 I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed. 26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart; 27 Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal… 30 Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbour. 31 Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith. 32 Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD.

    Zechariah 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. 2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land. 3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth. 4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:

    NOW recall,

    1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;…7 But refuse profane and old wives’ fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.

    These seducing unclean spirits are actually nothing but deceit from man’s own spirit. What we have are people who deceive, using drugs, speaking lies, using trickery. They are from man’s own imagination.

    Interesting to note that in Egypt, and likewise other places, authorities would gather the people, drug them with hallucinogens and then perform their rituals and teach their doctrines.

    Revelations 18: 23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

    Sorcery Transliterated Word Pharmakeia

    the use or the administering of drugs

    poisoning

    sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry

    cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness;”

    These men are adversaries and slanderers to God, they pose and are seen as being messengers of light, but they bring nothing but DECEIT and FABLES.

    The truth is Israel mingled with the heathens, they took their fables and created their own false beliefs of which included false beliefs about unclean spirits.

    Nick can you attest to this truth?

    #825842
     Jodi 
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    Hi Nick,

    You said, “Man, in his vanity, is unaware of being manipulated to teach these doctrines of demons.”

    The passages I have given do not mention one word of manipulation other than coming from one man to another man. Likewise the passages I gave speak of their fake visions and doctrines as coming from within themselves.

    I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness

    works of their hands

    follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing

    every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart,

    they speak a vision of their own heart

    they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart

    What the passages LITERALLY tell us is that men deceive other men, and that their deceptions are their own inventions, not from a spirit manipulating them.

    We are LITERALLY told that men sin FOLLOWING their OWN spirit. 

    If you want to claim at times they ALSO sin by following another spirit, give us those scriptures.

    #825843
     Anthony 
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    Hi Jodi I think that’s right on alot of people get caught by men and women that teach them faslehood and once they get caught in it its hard to get out .  The only way is to study yourself out. We need to keep trying to keep it as close to  the original we can. I look at the word literally unless it speaks otherwise which it does but if we start taking  types and symbols and thing of that sort and try to build a foindatfou for proof for  doctorings that doesn’t work, we could make the word  say anything   ya right on Jodi God bless

    #825849
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Yes these clever demons live in the bodies of men and speak through them.

    Jesus Christ did not put up with their nonsense and said to one

    ’Be quiet and come out of him’

    #825861
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Yes the unclean spirits within men are shown by scripture to be intelligent and well aware of their situation. They know they have a time for judgement coming and pleaded to be sent into pigs as other vessels. They are organised and can communicate with one another.

    While in men they recognised Jesus and knew of Paul.  They are organised and even a ‘legion’ can live in a man. Their easy work is to be invisible such that the man who houses them remains unaware of his role.

    So it is men who unknowingly preach their doctrines, these doctrines of demons.

    Deception fools many.

    #825865
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Mike,

    Molten glass is neither strong nor solid.

    So what did God mean?

     

    #825872
     Jodi 
    Participant
    • Topics started 8
    • Total replies 1,260

    Nick,

    I am disappointed in your response and how it does not address what I have put forward.

    I have yet to discuss the unclean spirits that are in fact real, and was hoping that we could reach common ground with us both recognizing that there are doctrines of demons/unclean spirits that are nothing but fables.

    I am asking that you acknowledge that scripture does in fact talk about idols, gods, and their demons as being fake, having no power.

    Do you or do you not acknowledge this?

     

    #825873
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Yes.

    Men worship anything.

    Demons do seek worship as another way of insulting God.

    If you are teaching from an ideological background you will always stumble over the stumbling stone of the Word

    #825874
     NickHassan 
    Participant
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    Hi Jodi,

    We have the recorded activity of Jesus Christ dealing with demons.

    You offer us theorerical stuff instead.

    Why should we listen?

    #825876
     Jodi 
    Participant
    • Topics started 8
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    Nick, I have not given anything theoretical please be specific in what you accuse me of, I gave scripture that combines demons and idols together as being fake.

    Your statement tells me you are not bothering to READ the scriptures that I have given.

    #825877
     NickHassan 
    Participant
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    Hi Jodi,

    Natural men are excellent vessels for demons to teach through.

    Spiritually blind, deaf and so ignorant they are such easy prey.

    Demonic behaviors and doctrines of demons are the result.

     

    The whole world is under the power of the evil one.

    Doctrines of demons are not ABOUT demons but rather FROM them.

     

     

    #825879
     Jodi 
    Participant
    • Topics started 8
    • Total replies 1,260

    Nick you can’t seriously be ignorant enough to believe that the heathens did not believe in FAKE gods and FAKE DEMONS???

    We are told that the heathen beliefs were false because they were FAKE, that which they believed in had no POWER.

    The word in English “demon” in scripture comes from the Greek daimon, daimonion, or daimonizomai.

    These were in fact words used unto the Greeks to speak of their fake demons. These were not words solely used by Christ followers to solely speak of real demons, they were used by heathens when they spoke OF THEIR beliefs regarding THEIR demons, likewise they were used in scripture by the authors to also reference heathen fake demons. 

    Once again I will say that scripture shows a difference between REAL unclean spirits and FAKE unclean spirits of the heathens.

    #825883
     NickHassan 
    Participant
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    Hi Jodi,

    James told us that the demons also believe, and tremble.

    Matthew mentioned that the demons in the man said they were legion.

     

    Surely you are not going to say these anointed men were deceived?

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