Flat Earth?

This topic contains 1,146 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by  GeneBalthrop 9 minutes ago.

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  • #826388
     Dig4truth 
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    Gene: “Mike….Tell us who said this, “destory this “temple” and in three days (I) shall raise “it” up. That could not have been Jesus saying that because he said he was “dead” and the dead can’t raise themselves. So it was God the Father speaking through the very mouth of Jesus that said that. Scripture also says it was God who raised Jesus from the dead. Jesus did not raise himself. So again you logic fails you.”

     

     

    Gene, it is your theology that fails you.

    Yeshua did indeed say this: “Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? 19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

    So Yeshua did say this.

    John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

    John -0:17-18 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

     

    #826389
     mikeboll64 
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    T8:  It does seem reasonable to assume that on day 4,  the sun, moon, and stars were in the firmament, whereas they were not there before due to the primeval conditions on an ancient earth, not because they didn’t exist.

    I’ve addressed this numerous times, and you just keep repeating the same thing without answering my points.

    14 “Let there be lights in the firmament…

    15  And it was so.

    16 God made two great lights…

    17  God set them in the firmament…

    19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

     

    Your interpretation goes directly against God’s written word.  And the shame of it is that, even though you keep refusing to come out and say it, the ONLY reason you try to mangle the scriptures like that is because you believe what godless men have told you (not proven, but just TOLD you) over what God Himself told you through Moses.  And that, my friend, is disheartening.

    #826390
     t8 
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    14 “Let there be lights in the firmament…
    15 And it was so.
    16 God made two great lights…
    17 God set them in the firmament…
    19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

    I have mentioned them a number of times.

    If the first day has no sun despite God creating the heavens and the earth on that day, what makes it a day if there is also a morning and evening?

    Two great lights appear in the firmanant on day 4, what is the problem with that? Even if they didn’t exist before day 4, then God could easily have created the Earth like a programmer creates a virtual world. He can work on the creation in any order he sees fit, and then put it together and boot it up and there it is.

    I see the firmanant as the atmosphere. When I look up into the atmosphere, I see many things including what is beyond. From my perspective it is all in that layer, but equally works if they are just very distant. God and the Bible are not disproved by either supposition. God is still the creator regardless.

    #826391
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Mike,

    You clearly do not understand the Spirit.

    Neither do you seem to understand how the Spirit spoke through Jesus Christ.

    From 2 Peter 1 you should know that God spoke through the prophets and Jesus was the great prophet Moses prophesied about. peter quoted this in Acts3. Likewise you should know from the words of John in Jn3 that he whom God has sent speaks the words of God. Hebrews 1 tells us that in these last days God has spoken to us through His Son. The anointed man, Jesus, said his words were spirit and truth in Jn 6 but you do not believe him?

    The Spirit of Christ is the servant Spirit.  The Word is the Spirit of Christ. And the servant that Isaiah prophesied about is the Spirit in Christ Jesus. God does not pray to or worship himself but we are told in Rom8 that the Spirit prays to God for our needs. So in the scriptures, including Jn 8.24, we hear the Spirit of Christ speaking.

    Sometimes we hear the other Counsellor, the Spirit of truth from the Father, that Jesus had promised to send. An example in Jn 2.19 and Jn 8.58. The Spirit is yet one, as scripture makes plain. The anointed man was a mouthpiece for the Spirit. If you are joined to him they will come to you and you can fellowship with the Father and the Son in that one Spirit.

    The bigger challenge to to see where Jesus spoke for himself.

    Listen to the Spirit.

     

     

     

    #826392
     mikeboll64 
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    T8:  …the irrefutable proof of the continent of Antarctica…

    What proof?

    T8:  …yacht and ship navigation of the Southern Ocean…

    Yes, sea faring vessels navigate the southern oceans. And?

    T8:  …seeing moons and planets via telescopes…

    We see lights with telescopes.  Circular lights.  What is your proof they are 3 dimensional terrestrial bodies?

    T8:  …satellites…

    Yes, we send many pieces of equipment, called satellites, high up on balloons.  We’ve been doing so since the early 50’s.  What is your proof that satellites, as NASA describes them, exist in the thermosphere, where the temperature is said to be 3 times hotter than it would take to melt them all?

    T8:  …a permantly visible Southern Cross in NZ and South America at the same time while not being visible from North America which lies in between…

    I haven’t looked into the that, so I can’t comment on it.  But I’ll see your Southern Cross and raise you a Big Dipper.  We in the “northern hemisphere” can see it all year long.  Think about that, and we’ll talk more later.

    T8:  and how the Heliocentric model turns all wandering stars into a circular orbit around the sun compared to a much more complex and unexplainable orbit around the Earth.

    You simply don’t know your history.  Ptolemy’s cosmology had a stationary earth with lights moving around us, and it explained everything just fine from the 2nd century AD until Copernicus in 1600.  And even before that, in ancient Babylonia, they had all the eclipses mapped out and predicted, from a flat and stationary point of view.  In fact, if you go to the NASA site and check out the eclipses forecast for years to come, they’ll give all credit to one guy, whose data was taken right from the ancient Babylonian saros cycles.  Btw, although Copernicus’ model called for circular orbits like you said, that had to be adjusted later because it didn’t match the observations.  Now we’re told they orbit in ellipses. So which one is “more complex and unexplainable”?  The one that has to keep being changed?  Or the one from ancient times that modern scientists still use?

    T8:  As for your points in the quote, I will post up the explanation for seeing full moons during the day.

    Fantastic.  I can hardly wait.  But I’m done for the night.  Need to eat and sleep before starting it all over again tomorrow.  Did you start the debate thread yet?

    #826393
     Lightenup 
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    Mike,

    you said:

    Hi Kathi, I’m 7 pages behind, and just got done with a 12 hour work day, so I’m answering briefly today in the hopes I get caught back up. What you make says sense in that it would be wise to have the aquarium ready before buying the fish. And it could be that on that first 24 hour day, God created the heavens (a dwelling place), then brought forth Jesus, then created the angels through him, and then created the earth at which time the angels shouted for joy, and then created light. But in that case, Jesus couldn’t be the light, because according to Gen 1, the heavens and the earth were created, the earth was formless water, and THEN God said, “Let there be light.”

    If you believed as I do that the begetting of the Son was done on day one when God said “Let there be Light,” the Firstborn of all creation, then you would further believe that all things made IN heaven and ON earth, visible and invisible, would be after that Light came forth on day one. The heavens are still being prepared after day one.

    Gen 1:6Then God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. 8God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.

     

    Prov 8: 27“When He established the heavens, I was there,
    When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep,

    28When He made firm the skies above,

    Heb 1:10 “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH,
     AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;

    Mike, kudos to you using the phrase “then brought forth Jesus, then created the angels through him.” I’m glad to see that use of “brought forth”in regards to Jesus as distinguished from “created.”

    Also, according to your own idea that “Let there be” brings forth something new then what happens on day two is new and not there before the Light of day one. Day two God said “Let there be and expanse” and He called that “expanse” heaven.

    Now, once again about “Let there be” bringing something new, well the begotten God (John 1:18) was new to being “begotten” and new to the new realm of creation.

    Mike, you are keeping up pretty good here with all the hours you work. Don’t work yourself to death.

    Blessings, LU

    #826395
     NickHassan 
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    Hi,

    Mike has claimed the irrefutable podium so please find another for your ideas.

    #826397
     t8 
    Participant
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    Antarctica exists

    T8:  …the irrefutable proof of the continent of Antarctica…

    Mike: What proof?

    I have proof of the Antarctica living here in New Zealand. The last stop before Antarctica is Christchurch in New Zealand, a city I have lived in. There is no way you are going to get me to believe that this is all fake. We have fellow citizens, scientists, climatologists, explorers, politicians, and people with talents that are needed in the frozen continent. There exist flights for tourists where people like you and me can shell out $5000 and fly over it. You get to see volcanoes, mountains, etc. No way ever that is all fake. Way to elaborate. The only reason you think Antarctica is not the 6th or 8th continent is because it would refute the Flat Earth. You have nothing else. I have photos of the International Antarctic Centre which I posted in this thread taken with my own camera. Come on Mike. We have some of their penguins in zoos, and our Southerly wind comes direct from Antarctica. New Zealand has a long history with the Antarctica and has territory there. It would be a bit like me denying Alaska exists because that feels like a million miles from where I am right now, so might not actually exist.

    https://www.antarcticanz.govt.nz/

    https://www.antarcticanz.govt.nz/whats-new/

    BTW, @nickhassan, here is the ice wall you doubted existed and trolled Mike regarding it. Got the photo from the site linked above. Are you weeping now? lol.

    Antarctica wall

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    #826400
     t8 
    Participant
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    More proof of the Antarctica

    Honestly Mike, do you believe this is all a scam and the people are all actors?

    Seriously?

    #826401
     t8 
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    T8: …yacht and ship navigation of the Southern Ocean…
    Mike: Yes, sea faring vessels navigate the southern oceans. And?

    Go back and read it again and you will know what comes after ‘And?’.Your comment alludes to you not reading the post properly, missing the point completely, or are intentionally ignoring it and belittling the argument made.

    #826406
     t8 
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    @mikeboll64

    Invest a few minutes to watch this video and you will see how you can see the full moon during the day.

    While the guy doing the video makes the point that the moon is in line if sight in daylight as much as it is at night, in the diagrams or simulation he shows, you can see at one point the full moon during the day while not being an eclipse.

    #826407
     t8 
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    T8: …seeing moons and planets via telescopes…
    Mike: We see lights with telescopes. Circular lights. What is your proof they are 3 dimensional terrestrial bodies?

    I think you will find all the planets spin.

    T8: …satellites…
    Mike: Yes, we send many pieces of equipment, called satellites, high up on balloons. We’ve been doing so since the early 50’s. What is your proof that satellites, as NASA describes them, exist in the thermosphere, where the temperature is said to be 3 times hotter than it would take to melt them all?

    I can see them sometimes in the night sky orbiting quite fast. There is a launchpad about 5 hours from where I live that sends satellites into space. But you would have me believe this is all fake. And for what purpose do we have all these people deceiving us with fake missions, space programs, etc?  So we will accept that God created a much smaller creation than the one most believe today that clearly displays God’s eternal nature and leaves even Atheists in awe.

    Mike: You simply don’t know your history. Ptolemy’s cosmology had a stationary earth with lights moving around us, and it explained everything just fine from the 2nd century AD until Copernicus in 1600.

    Mike, stars are very far away and do not orbit our sun, so the heliocentric model or Flat Earth models can explain star movements. But wandering stars were the thorn in the side of the Flat Earth model because they are part of our solar system, thus the models  see them completely different. And they weren’t called wandering for fun, that title was a result of the Flat Earth model which unlike all the other stars, moved in a haphazard way. But you keep ignoring the question about wandering stars, so I will ask again.

    Is it a coincidence that when you look at the heliocentric model that wandering stars suddenly have a normal simple orbit around the sun in that model? If the heliocentric model were fake, then how do you account for this astronomical coincidence that happens to place these wandering stars as predictable simple orbits?

    Mike: I haven’t looked into the that, so I can’t comment on it. But I’ll see your Southern Cross and raise you a Big Dipper. We in the “northern hemisphere” can see it all year long. Think about that, and we’ll talk more later.

    You will look into the Southern Cross and I will look into the Big Dipper. While I am ignorant of it and have head the name a few times, it may be like our Southern Cross and visible in the northern hemisphere. What is the puzzling thing about it in a globe earth model combined with the solar system?

    #826408
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Dig4truth…..so you say Jesus raised up himself from the grave, well if that be the case then he never “really” died, and you are still in your sins, because shams don’t work with God right?

    Here is some scriptures that show it was God the Father who raised Jesus from the DEAD not himself.

    Rom 10:9.., That if you shall confess with thy mouth the lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that “GOD” has “RAISED” him from the dead, you shall be saved.

    So you believe Jesus raised “himself”, right?, well then how are you saved? not believing it was GOD THE FATHER WHO RAISED JESUS ?, SEEMS YOU HAVE A DELIMA

    Acts 3:15, And killed the Prince of life, whom “GOD” has (RAISED) from the “dead” whereof we are witnesses.

    Acts 2:32, This Jesus has “GOD RAISED UP” whereof we are all witnesses.

    Acts 3:26, Unto you first God, “having raised up”, his Son Jesus,

    Acts 4:10, Acts 5:30, Acts 10:40, Acts 13:33-34,

    1 Cor 6:14, 1 Cor 15:15, Gal 1:1, Col 2:12, 1 Pe 1:21.

    13 verses, clearly say GOD THE FATHER, “RAISED JESUS” FROM THE DEAD. Now again , who said, destory this “temple” and in three days (Ì) shall raise it up? Who was the (I) there? Was it not God the Fathers Spirit itself, speaking directly through the mouth of Jesus saying that? Does it not say “In the latter days God spoke “through” a son unto us.”

    Here is something else for you to chew on, Rom 8:11.. “BUT IF THE SPIRIT OF HIM WHO RAISED CHRIST JESUS FROM THE DEAD DWELL “IN” YOU, HE
    THAT RAISED UP CHRIST FROM THE DEAD, SHALL ALSO QUICKEN (bring to life) YOU MORTAL (dead) BODY” BY HIS SPIRIT THAT DWELLS IN YOU”.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene

    #826409
     Anthony 
    Participant
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    Hi everyone video to watch

    everyhttps://www.youtube.com/user/thismorning

    #826412
     NickHassan 
    Participant
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    Hi Dig4,

    Until you hear the voice of the Spirit in the mouth of the anointed man Jesus

    and in the mouths of the holy prophets and apostles

    you will only hear the voices of men.

     

    The Word is spiritual and not earthly

    Heb 1.1

    God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son…

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