Flat Earth?

This topic contains 2,434 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by  Dig4truth 2 days, 9 hours ago.

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  • #822576
     mikeboll64 
    Participant
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    Nick: You have not yet replied to the question about the firmament (or expanse) being the sky.

    But God placed the two great lights in the firmament in which the birds also fly.

    So it can only be called the sky from the viewpoint of earth.

    The firmament is strong, like molten glass.  It is a physical barrier that separates the waters above it (what you think of as “space”) from the waters below it (our atmosphere, oceans, lakes, rivers, and the fountains of the great deep which are below those).  When it says God set the sun, moon and stars on appointed circuits “IN” the firmament, I don’t know for sure if that means literally in the physical barrier of the hard firmament itself, or just on the “inside” (our side) of the barrier.  But I’m almost certain it has to be the former.

    Now how about you answer my question from way back to the beginning of this discussion?  I want to know how exactly YOU personally know we live on one of trillions of spinning balls in a near infinite vastness of mostly empty vacuum called space.  I already know how you “know” it, but I’d like to hear you SAY that you “know” it because men have told it to you.  So can you be honest with me, yourself, and the rest of us here and just say what we all know to be the truth anyway?  Thanks.

    #822577
     mikeboll64 
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    miia: Hey Mike, I was just thinking. If it was a flat Earth, wouldn’t it come to an end?

    If we go north, south, east or west by foot, boat or plane we are going to end up at the end of the flat earth right? But nobody has ever hit that dead end. Instead, we end up at where we began.

    Hey miia, thank you not only for the very logical question, but for the honest, truth-seeking way in which you asked it – as opposed to some here whose questions are really more akin to, “Oh yeah, smart guy?  Well then what about THIS?  And what about THAT?  Hmm?  Can’t answer those, can you?  I can’t believe you’ve bought into this nonsense! Lol!”

    Of course I usually just laugh people like that off, because if they’re not being unnecessarily condescending and smug, they are spouting fancy scientific jargon and theories that they’ve HEARD other people talk about before – but don’t actually know anything about those things themselves.

    Anyway, no flat earther (I should say “ball denier”) claims to know the shape of the earth – only that it can’t be what we’ve been told.  It could be square with a circle inscribed within the square – in which we all live.  The Bible speaks of the four corners of the earth, and also about how God inscribed a circle on the face of the deep, and how He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth.  Do you remember me and JustAskin going at each other like rabid dogs over whether or not God and angels have physical bodies?  🙂  Well I still believe they do.  I believe God has a literal physical form, and a literal throne from which He rules.  And if I’m right, it would be hard for God to be sitting “above” North America at the same time He’s sitting “above” New Zealand – if the earth was a ball.  Also hard for angels to ascend and descend, or for Jesus to have come “down” from heaven, etc.  Because in the ball theory, there is no up or down.  Anyway, sorry for the rant.

    The most popular flat earth model is the one you see on the United Nations flag.  It is called the azimuthal equidistant projection, or more commonly the AE map.

    Wiki says:

    While it may have been used by ancient Egyptians for star maps in some holy books,[1] the earliest text describing the azimuthal equidistant projection is an 11th-century work by al-Biruni.[2]

    The projection appears in many Renaissance maps, and Gerardus Mercator used it for an inset of the north polar regions in sheet 13 and legend 6 of his well-known 1569 map. In France and Russia this projection is named “Postel projection” after Guillaume Postel, who used it for a map in 1581.[3] Many modern star chart planispheres use the polar azimuthal equidistant projection.

    It’s been around for a while.  But you’ll notice that the center of the map is the North Pole, and there is no continent of Antarctica.  Ball deniers believe that what we’ve all been told is the continent of Antarctica is really an ice wall that encompasses the entire plane on which we live.  I noticed T8 posted a picture so you get the idea.  On the AE map I’ve included, it would be the white ring around the 6 continents on which everyone lives.

    Since you seem to be truly inquisitive about this, I strongly suggest you watch this one video.  It is called “21 Questions”, and briefly addresses the most common questions that people have when being confronted with flat earth theory.  It’s only 45 minutes long, and it will get you in the ballpark of what we believe.  Remember it is meant for beginners, and in no way encompasses the multitude of observations and absurdities that refute the spinning ball model.  I think you’ll enjoy it…

    #822580
     t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 895
    • Total replies 18,428

    Superstition Mountain is 4000 feet tall. At 55 miles (55 x 55 x 8), there should be 2016 feet hidden by curvature. That’s slightly more than half of it. It doesn’t look that way to me. It looks like I can see the vast majority of the whole thing. What do you see?

    Good Mike. You check stuff out unlike most people. Of course checking stuff out doesn’t rule out a mistake in the math for example. I cannot comment on the math you use because I have never worked out such a thing with scientifically approved math or am unable to check if your math is correct or flawed. I will say this however, if my memory serves me correctly, history records early observations of ships coming from the horizon toward land showing the sails and then the whole ship. Ships these days don’t usually have sails, so I can’t say I have noticed such a phenomenon myself. I lived on a coastline for years with the snow capped mountains of New Zealand’s South Island in the distance. This is the view I use to get:

    I wonder if these mountains are far enough away to notice that the bottom contours are missing? Perhaps I could check?


    However, I took an even more extreme photo once of a distant volcano looking in the opposite direction from a different vantage point. This is the best way for me to test the theory because I know the photos are real and not doctored.

    I am standing on Paekakariki Hill Road in Wellington, a road close to where I live.


    This is the usual view from the top of the hill. Note the island to the left. In my final photo, I zoomed in so much, that the island is not included, so you can ignore that island as having any relevance:


    One fine day in Winter, I saw for the first time a distant volcano called Mt Ruapehu. That mountain looks like this up close from a ski resort town called Ohakune:


    Here is the view I got looking at the same side of the mountain, but some 305 km (190 mi) away at Paekakariki Hill. The island is out of the picture to the left.

    Mt Ruapehu

    The mountain is 2,797 metres (9176 ft) high.

    The photo appears to show the mountain appear lower than it really is I think, but in all honesty, it is too hard to tell because of the shape.

    Maybe using Google Earth or Maps, I could get a 3D view of it from the same angle and see if there are missing contours at the bottom of the shape. Maybe you could even do that too. I will give that a go and report back if I can prove that the bottom part of the mountain is missing. If it is all there, then perhaps we need to look closely at the math or maybe it is just that the Earth is so big, that only a minute part of the bottom of this mountain would be missing, perhaps the height of a ship sail. Then again, maybe you are correct aye.

    #822582
     Admin 
    Keymaster
    • Topics started 91
    • Total replies 1,271

    Hey Mike, I got an upload error when posting the photo above as T8. I looked into it knowing you had the same error and saw a file upload limit of 512 KB. I changed it to 8000 kb. You should be able to upload that gif file now. If it is still too large, I will increase the file upload limit again.

    #822585
     mikeboll64 
    Participant
    • Topics started 79
    • Total replies 25,121

    Hey Gene and T8, I’ll try my best to get to yours tomorrow.  I already warned you that it might take a few days for me to respond, because I don’t have the time I used to.  And may I also suggest that the shape of the earth is a HUGE topic, and includes side topics like gravity, plasma, electric universe theory, vibration, resonance, electromagnetism, the Antarctica Treaty, Captain James Cook, Admiral Richard Byrd, southern flight paths, torrs of vacuum, Sputnik, southern star trails and other phenomena in the heavens, Newton, Einstein, Tesla, atmospheric refraction, NASA and other space agencies, alphabet agencies like CIA and FBI, the Apollo missions, the Rothschilds, Jesuits, Zionists, stratospheric temperatures, Illuminati, military factions, atmospheric ionization, the god of this age and his agents, and way too many other things for me to mention now.

    I know you all have a bunch of questions, but it will be very hard for me to even present my case if I keep getting hammered with a million different things – each of which take hours to work through. For example, T8 did a very cursory look into Antarctica, and has concluded in one afternoon that everything checks out for the ball earth. Gene is asking about Newtonian physics being responsible for flawless space telemetry, oblivious to the fact that no man has ever left “low earth orbit” – let alone stepped foot on the light called the moon… and apparently unaware that none of us here are skill enough in that subject to do anything but parrot things other men have told us. But I can’t address all these issues at once, in small posts.  I will take hours and pages, and there is a certain order we must go.  So please just let me begin to make my case, and rebut me on the issues as I present them.

     

    So far I’ve only presented the fact that flat earth is, at the very least, consistent with the scriptures, that none of us have ever seen the supposed curve, and that millions of us have seen objects that should be hidden by thousands of feet – even many miles – of curvature if we really lived on a ball 25,000 miles in circumference.  Gene, your boat going over the horizon argument is right on topic, and I will address that tomorrow.

    I’m not trying to be an ass here guys, but we won’t get anywhere this way.  I’m begging for patience.  So right now, can anyone explain why none of us have ever seen curvature?  Can anyone explain why we can see buildings, mountains, and other objects like the Statue of Liberty and lighthouses from many times farther away than we should?

    #822586
     t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 895
    • Total replies 18,428

    @miia

    Hey Mike, I was just thinking. If it was a flat Earth, wouldn’t it come to an end?

    Jesus did say a few things about the end of the world. lol.

    #822587
     t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 895
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    Hey no worries Mike and no pressure at all. Sometimes I take weeks to answer a post as there are more important things in life that take precedence.

    Just good to hear from you again bro.

    #822588
     mikeboll64 
    Participant
    • Topics started 79
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    Hey Mike, I got an upload error when posting the photo above as T8. I looked into it knowing you had the same error and saw a file upload limit of 512 KB. I changed it to 8000 kb. You should be able to upload that gif file now. If it is still too large, I will increase the file upload limit again.

    Fantastic!  Now I don’t have to keep resizing my photos!

    #822590
     t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 895
    • Total replies 18,428

    Can anyone explain why we can see buildings, mountains, and other objects like the Statue of Liberty and lighthouses from many times farther away than we should?

    Maybe the Earth is so big that it is possible to see these things from great distances before the curvature makes them invisible.

    A better question might be why I cannot see Alaska from New Zealand when looking through a powerful telescope. I looked at the graphics you posted of a flat Earth map, and there appears to be a clear line of view between Alaska and New Zealand.

    #822591
     t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 895
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    There is another possibility. If indeed we can see objects that according to the dimensions of the Earth, we shouldn’t be able to see with a telescope, then here is one explanation. Light is what makes things visible and light can reflect and refract off things such as physical objects and even clouds and moisture. So it is possible to peak over the horizon if light is being reflected over the horizon.

    A similar explanation was given to a Supernovae that was observed hundreds of years ago and again in modern times. It was apparently the same event, but some light took a direct route to Earth while other light was reflected here and there and took a longer route.

    #822592
     mikeboll64 
    Participant
    • Topics started 79
    • Total replies 25,121

    T8:

    Here is the view I got looking at the same side of the mountain, but some 305 km (190 mi) away at Paekakariki Hill. The island is out of the picture to the left.

    Mt Ruapehu

    The mountain is 2,797 metres (9176 ft) high.

    So you take 190 miles squared (190 x 190=36,100).  Multiply that by 8 inches (36,100 x 8=288,800 inches that should be hidden).  Then divide that by 12 inches per foot (288,800\12 = 24,066 feet).  Now divide that by 5280 feet in one mile (24,066\5280 = 4.5 miles).  So your 2 mile tall mountain should be hidden behind 4.5 miles of curvature.  But that is if your camera was at sea level (notice it’s called sea LEVEL, not sea CURVE 🙂 ).  I put the data into one of the many earth curve calculators you can find online, and put your camera height at 1000 feet.  The result was 3 miles hidden due to curve.  The higher you were, the less will be hidden.  I put you at 10,000 feet high, and then there’s only supposed to be 3000 feet of that mountain hidden behind curvature.

     

    (I don’t know what I did to make one of those screenshots sideways.  🙂  Oh well.)

    #822597
     Lightenup 
    Participant
    • Topics started 63
    • Total replies 10,307

    Mike,

    you asked:

    What exactly were you agreeing with? 🙂  Anna didn’t actually say anything.

    This is what I was agreeing with…she has only made two comments, this was her first. You must have missed it.

    “No such thing as flat earth.”-Anna

    And yes, I did mean round as in spherical, not flat and round obviously.

    #822598
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,461

    Hi Mike,

    Molten glass is not strong.

    You offer the anecdotal evidence of the eyes of tiny men on the nature of our universe?

    To utterly believe in a flat earth with icy walls at the edges that cannot be shown seems like some sort of punishment from on high.  I have no problem learning about the wondrous creation of God from carnal men wth amazing instruments. Do you?

    #822601
     t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 895
    • Total replies 18,428

    Hi Mike.

    No probs about answering everything from me. I will just put my ideas out there for all to read. If you or anyone else wishes to address anything I say, then good. If not, then I won’t take it personally. This is because this is not a foundational doctrine of the faith. If one man views it as he sees from his own perspective, and another from a different perspective, that is fine. The real picture is created by the brain. What the brain receives is frequency.

    Similarly, this website is actually data until a device and browser decodes it. Heaven Net doesn’t fly on the wireless Internet as we perceive it. No it is data in its raw form. This is why the universe is so subjective. It depends on the view at the time and the speed of the viewer. The reality we see is decoded from the spectrum and decoded by the brain.

    This understanding leads to Quantum physics which is a real mind bender as to what reality actually is. Would love to discus this too, but maybe in a different topic.

    #822603
     t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 895
    • Total replies 18,428

    (I don’t know what I did to make one of those screenshots sideways.

    Maybe it is because NZ and US are on the side of a globe, so it was the right way up, but when the Earth became flat it then appeared sideways. Okay, that was a joke. Carry on.

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